Thread: Atheism article (Worth a look.)

There is an external world that exists independently of our minds.

There are understandable, quantifiable, natural laws that describe how things happen in this world.

These natural laws won’t change when we’re not looking; the universe isn’t totally chaotic.

So far, this faith has been well founded, as shown by the amazing accomplishments of modern science and medicine. [/b]

Atheism is a religion like the rest.

We have no proof that there is an external world that exists outside of our minds, or even the nature and extent of our minds. We have no proof that we ever existed at any point beyond this very moment, all we have is recollections of prior existance, which may or may not be true.

How are natural laws any different from God? Why does gravity hold things together? Noone can answer that. The author of the article argued that not everything has a cause, but at the same time causality is a basic physical rule, and the foundation of rational thought.

Atheism, like all religions, is equally false. We only have two things we can absolutely prove, the existance of ourselves, and the existance of our perceptions(not necessarily what we percieve). Naturalism, like all religion, is an attempt to explain the cause of our perceptions, which are likely nowhere near complete. If there is an external universe, our understanding of it is extremely limited. We can only observe energy, matter, and the effects of forces upon energy and matter.

How can you prove that the monitor in front of you exists? You see it yes, but is that proof of existance? If that is proof of existance then everything that we observe must exist, including God. If everything that I observe must exist, then I must be God, because I create everything.

Ok, it's official, I'm a soliphist.

Originally posted by Je33icaLy88
Satin tempted Jesus in the desert (40 days 40 nights/Lent) to jump off a cliff, for the angels of God would save him. Jesus said that we should never test God's powers. Hence, we shouldn't test his powers by dropping a penny and commanding God not to let it fall.

Yes, but may I remind you that Christianity is not the only religion. You make some interesting points, but in fact nothing will ever make anything the truth. The truth is an abstract thing. On one hand, if ruled by a strict committee of ordained officials (why they are the superiority....ugh ) as whether a scientific theory or such is in fact the truth or real. On the other, we can't prove if anything is real or not, because we do not have to ability to comphrehend an infinite object (what would it look like? it could be the size of an atom or electron and be infinite). There is no way to prove anything, though our logic simply assumes that through certain degrees, that man speaks the truth. It perplexes me to no end. In fact, I have made a short theory/speech on this over here: http://dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?...t=4194&start=15

Originally posted by bradybaker


Only one thing I would change: I would argue that humans have no free will, all of our actions are predetermined by the natural physical laws we observe daily in this universe.

*pees pants*


*agrees*

I would argue that humans have no free will, all of our actions are predetermined by the natural physical laws we observe daily in this universe. [/b]

I also agree...simewhat. I would argue that we have free will, and our choices are pre-determined. Our free will is pre-determined.

Originally posted by gameover+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gameover)</div>

Do you have any basis for this belief, or just the statement that you believe it?[/b]

I told you, if I can find the article that I am referring to, I will post it.

<!--QuoteBegin-gameover
I don't, I didn't, and I wont. I never said conciousness has anything to do with self-awareness. Ever. WHere did that even come from, Im curious? Coinciousness is the very center of our being. The observer of our our thoughts and actions. Not the direct cause of these thoughts and actions.

I apologize, it just sounded to me like you were describing self-awareness. All animals are concious, everything from the mosquito to the hippopotamous. It is a physical state of mind, when an animal is dead, it is no longer concious. Conciousness exists as an trait of an individual, it lives with the individual, and dies with the individual. I have never encountered any empirical evidence to support the theory that there is some sort of \"pool of conciousness\", have you?

Originally posted by Belisarius
We have no proof that there is an external world that exists outside of our minds, or even the nature and extent of our minds. We have no proof that we ever existed at any point beyond this very moment, all we have is recollections of prior existance, which may or may not be true.

Occam's razor.

Originally posted by Belisarius

There is an external world that exists independently of our minds.

There are understandable, quantifiable, natural laws that describe how things happen in this world.

These natural laws won’t change when we’re not looking; the universe isn’t totally chaotic.

So far, this faith has been well founded, as shown by the amazing accomplishments of modern science and medicine.

Atheism is a religion like the rest.

We have no proof that there is an external world that exists outside of our minds, or even the nature and extent of our minds. We have no proof that we ever existed at any point beyond this very moment, all we have is recollections of prior existance, which may or may not be true.

How are natural laws any different from God? Why does gravity hold things together? Noone can answer that. The author of the article argued that not everything has a cause, but at the same time causality is a basic physical rule, and the foundation of rational thought.

Atheism, like all religions, is equally false. We only have two things we can absolutely prove, the existance of ourselves, and the existance of our perceptions(not necessarily what we percieve). Naturalism, like all religion, is an attempt to explain the cause of our perceptions, which are likely nowhere near complete. If there is an external universe, our understanding of it is extremely limited. We can only observe energy, matter, and the effects of forces upon energy and matter.

How can you prove that the monitor in front of you exists? You see it yes, but is that proof of existance? If that is proof of existance then everything that we observe must exist, including God. If everything that I observe must exist, then I must be God, because I create everything.

Ok, it's official, I'm a soliphist.[/b]

I have never heard such an utterly idiotic statement like that ever... Atheism is most definitely NOT a religion. A = Anti/non Theism = Religion

We have told you why theories are more believable and have more reason to be believed than theology previously in this topic, so I am not going to repeat myself.

EDITost number 666 right here!

I told you, if I can find the article that I am referring to, I will post it. [/b]

Your basis for a belief exists in some article somwewhere? So you dont even know why you think this? Any belief you have should be able to be explained without some article.

Conciousness exists as an trait of an individual, it lives with the individual, and dies with the individual. [/b]

THere is no evidence to suggest conciousness dies with the body.

I have never encountered any empirical evidence to support the theory that there is some sort of \"pool of conciousness\", have you? [/b]

I wouldn need eveidence to prove it to you, unless you are in fact not concious. My own conciousness, is proof to me that I am concious, and if you are concious that that is proof for you. This \"pool\" is just an analogy for all of conciousness. I do not actully believe in a \"pool\". I told you it was just a visualization to understand the concept.
***

Atheism is most definitely NOT a religion. A = Anti/non Theism = Religion [/b]

Theism does not mean religion. Theism means belief in God. Polythiesm...belief in many gods. Athiesm...Non belief in God.

We have told you why theories are more believable and have more reason to be believed than theology previously in this topic, so I am not going to repeat myself.[/b]

THeists hvae theories just like Atheists. You say theoires are mroe believable than theism when theism is a theory.

Originally posted by gameover+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gameover)</div>

Your basis for a belief exists in some article somwewhere? So you dont even know why you think this? Any belief you have should be able to be explained without some article.[/b]

The article is not the basis for my belief. However, if I attempt to explain my belief to you I doubt that you will understand. Its fairly technical and difficult to translate into layman's terms. The author of the article has done a much better job than I ever could.

Originally posted by gameover@
THere is no evidence to suggest conciousness dies with the body.

I'll ask this question again, when did ignorance become a point of view? You say that there is no evidence that conciousness dies with the body to refute my claim, but you know full well that there is no evidence to support your claim, in essence making your claim equally null.

<!--QuoteBegin-gameover
I wouldn need eveidence to prove it to you, unless you are in fact not concious. My own conciousness, is proof to me that I am concious, and if you are concious that that is proof for you. This \"pool\" is just an analogy for all of conciousness. I do not actully believe in a \"pool\". I told you it was just a visualization to understand the concept.

That visual example suggests that my conciousness and your conciousness are connected somehow. Either refine your belief, or refine your "visual example".

Originally posted by gameover
EDITost number 666 right here!

I told you, if I can find the article that I am referring to, I will post it.

Your basis for a belief exists in some article somwewhere? So you dont even know why you think this? Any belief you have should be able to be explained without some article.

Conciousness exists as an trait of an individual, it lives with the individual, and dies with the individual. [/b]

THere is no evidence to suggest conciousness dies with the body.

I have never encountered any empirical evidence to support the theory that there is some sort of \"pool of conciousness\", have you? [/b]

I wouldn need eveidence to prove it to you, unless you are in fact not concious. My own conciousness, is proof to me that I am concious, and if you are concious that that is proof for you. This \"pool\" is just an analogy for all of conciousness. I do not actully believe in a \"pool\". I told you it was just a visualization to understand the concept.
***

Atheism is most definitely NOT a religion. A = Anti/non Theism = Religion [/b]

Theism does not mean religion. Theism means belief in God. Polythiesm...belief in many gods. Athiesm...Non belief in God.

We have told you why theories are more believable and have more reason to be believed than theology previously in this topic, so I am not going to repeat myself.[/b]

THeists hvae theories just like Atheists. You say theoires are mroe believable than theism when theism is a theory.[/b]

First of all, I got the translation wrong, big deal. Still doesn't mean it's a Religion.

Second of all, you're right, Theism is a theory. One with no evidence towards it.