What the fuck guys.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../TrangBang.jpg
Printable View
What the fuck guys.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../TrangBang.jpg
This world is perfect. How the world is now is the only way it could have been.
So the only thing that needs to change is yourself? Discuss..
Why would anything need to change if the world was perfect?
Because it isn't perfect in your point of view, or you would be in heaven all the time.. do you feel perfectly happy alll the time?
If this world is perfect, and I don't feel happy all the time, it means theres something wrong with my view on this world, so that needs to change..
How very Orwellian...
So you're saying the world is perfect, and I only see it as not perfect because of my views on whats wrong with it?Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba
So, in order for me to see this world as perfect, I need to be happy with humans murdering each other, cheerful about rape, welcome political deception, encourage selfishness and greed and promote stupidity and idiocy from my fellow man?
I'll get right on that.
You misunderstand what perfection is. Perfection is completeness. It is not good nor bad. It just is. I think.
Perfection is a man made concept, it's subjective and doesn't exist outside of the mind. There's no such thing as universal perfection, only our individual, and very likely differing, opinions on it. Therefore you can't claim the universe is perfect for everyone, only for yourself. Aswell as that perfection usually means perfect for the individual, if its not perfect for the individual, and the person has to change.... then it doesn't qualify as perfection.
Nonsense! This thread is ready to be Voltaire-ized!Quote:
Originally Posted by drewmandan
By assuming the Universe is or isn't perfect, aren't you assuming it has a purpose to be perfect or imperfect for in the first place?
And by deciding whether or not the Universe is perfect, you have already assumed you know what this purpose is, no?
If the world is perfect, then some people are perfect in their unhappiness.
You need not change.
Everything is perfect.
Spoiler for Osho:
Yes indeed, inside our minds, we want the universe to be perfect in order to be happy, whatever your concept of perfect may mean. Perfection is indeed a human concept, and the desire for perfection and heaven is a trait of the human mind. But if this world is already perfect, than in order to be happy, we don't have to change the world, but change ourselves. There's nothing wrong with the world, theres only something wrong with ourselves. The cause of not being happy is not the world, but your own mind that needs changing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kushna Mufeed
I believe it's possible to be high on life 24/7, to feel like you're on XTC non-stop. Why settle for feeling depressed all the time and living in hell, if you could as well be excited all the time and living in heaven... Happy people are way more productive and fun to hang out with than depressed people. Also, I believe this feeling of happiness has infinite potential, you can feel more happy each day, without any limits to the amount of happiness you feel. Why not try to get as much fun out of life as possible?
Very interesting quote, I think along the same lines... this quote is better worded tho. But isn't the realization of yourself not needing any change already a change? And if Tantra claims you need to realize this in order to be happy, then you do need to change... this doesn't come automaticly.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClouD
If I am happy, I am happy.
If I am sad, I am sad.
Whatsoever I am, I am.
I say drop tantra. I say be, or not be. Just.
Of course the World is Perfect! And you all are part of the world!
Yes, but they are asleep! They are not awake!Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaqaria
You're all Divine, deep within You Know this!
All concepts are man made. Truth, Divine Perfection is beyond conceptualization, it can never be guessed; it is no opinion, and therefore depends on neither the opinions nor the guessing.Quote:
Originally Posted by RooJ
Oooh... The naturalistic fallacy. Very nice! I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by stonedape
Not only the world that is Perfect, but All that Is!
All!
And Beyond!
But what about beyond that?
Is anything not perfect?
I'd have to say no, but this shit gets confusing.
Concepts, words.Quote:
Originally Posted by stonedape
Existence, non-existence.
Elaboration on pure mystery.
Just be, just.
P e r f e c t
per fect
perfect
It has a nice ring to it... I sure do like perfect... I love being perfect.... I love observing perfect... I love experiancing perfect in all of it´s pin point infinet spectrum of all that is perfect...
reality is a perfect mystery
as I walk with a atitude of perfect gratitude
Sometimes sleeping, sometimes awake, in individual or shared, dream.
Sometimes forgeting, sometimes remembering, as I twist and turn, fundamental learn, how to be, truly awake and free.
what is divine perfection and how would it differ from my own views on perfection?
I see no reason or way that a universal perfection can exist. Perfection is completely personal... Like who you fall in love with. Ohh and on that note:
I'm universally the 'perfect' person for all women to fall in love with, if any woman disagree's they need to change themselves... How dare they have differing or personal opinions on the subject :)
Obviously replace the above example with one that isn't true for greater effect.
Words fall short, now. We are not speaking about trivial matters, or worldly matters of any sort.Quote:
Originally Posted by stonedape
If All Is Perfect, why ask the question of imperfection?
Your "perfect" views are not True, they are transitory; they are relative. Divine Perfection, the only Real Perfection, Is beyond your mind; beyond all worlds and universes. This infinite Perfection reveals that it is nothing but that. You whole life before this was but a dream.Quote:
Originally Posted by RooJ
How can one know that all is perfect until one has asked this question?Quote:
Originally Posted by really
Well personally, I question everything. Because if I don't do this I make the assumption that I know things that I do not know. I ask this question because I do not have focus and forget this very easily. But maybe I should stick with a more positive question, like is everything perfect?
If All Is Known to Be Perfect, none is known to be imperfect.Quote:
Originally Posted by stonedape
Question the questioner, perhaps he can be silenced.Quote:
Originally Posted by stonedape
Yes. An imperfection is an illusion, a perfect illusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by stonedape
Ah, well I see little to support the assumption that such a perfection, somehow surviving independent of consciousness, and conveniently unguessable and beyond conceptualization, exists.
I wonder what convinces you such a divine perfection exists? Bearing in mind I speak English and not riddle or poem like some on here :P
perfect is like a synonym for impossible... even though the words are also kind of opposite. but yea, that's why I think the world isn't perfect.
perfect isn't just being complete. My car is complete, but it has a messed up cv boot so it isn't perfect.
ran outta ideas
It is not an assumption.Quote:
Originally Posted by RooJ
What do you mean by "somehow surviving independent of consciousness"? Does the Universe need to survive? What's stopping it?
Perfection is the revelation of abandoning the ego's illusions. The ego/mind distorts the reality it was created with, as a survival mechanism. Surrendering (dropping) the ego's hold on your life brings True happiness, which has always been true.Quote:
Originally Posted by RooJ
The ego cannot understand Perfection; it is the very mechanism which "creates" imperfections (which are illusions).Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
Quote:
Originally Posted by really
If you change yourself, your concept of perfection will change too. You might disagree now, but after changing yourself enough, you will agree that the world is perfect.Quote:
Originally Posted by RooJ
I agree perfection doesn't really exist, but at the same time it is very real and does exist in your mind. We will not reach ultimate happiness until we reach this perfection, this is how your mind works. Think about that.. how your own mind limits you from experiencing ultimate happiness. Are you just gonna let your mind do that to you?!
Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds. -Bob Marley
If you want to know how to gain mastery over your mind, read the link in my signature. It's not written in riddles, but in plain understandable english. It's the most interesting philosophical work I've read in my life.. you need to read it all in order to understand the whole tho.
Quote:
Originally Posted by really
I understand exactly where you're coming from as far as the mind is concerned, i take somewhat of a buddhist view on the mind myself, i tend to practice acceptance and mindfullness etc, and through these understand the workings of the ego fairly well.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba
But the difference is I practice acceptance of a world that isnt perfect, the goal for me isnt to convince myself that everything is perfect, but to accept that the world isnt perfect and remain happy anyway. In this state you can actively change things that need changing, such as world poverty, murder and the like because you understand that such things as child rape, cruelty to animals and other suffering isnt perfection. But at the same time you accept that these things exist and through acceptance find that they dont influence the calmness of your mind.
Essentially you're not taking the imperfections of life onboard like mental baggage, or striving to change the world around you to your own views of perfection, because you realise that everyones views of perfection are different, instead you realise true perfection doesnt exist, and simply accept what does without striving to label it.
"This world is perfect. How the world is now is the only way it could have been."
This very well one of the most unfounded, baseless statements I have heard.
This world is perfect. How the world is now is how the world is now.Quote:
Originally Posted by TransientOcclusion
Chance is an illusion.
Nothing is determined, existence is change.
Define the paramaters of "perfect".Quote:
Originally Posted by ClouD
This Perfection is beyond definition, and the limitations of parameters.Quote:
Originally Posted by TransientOcclusion
Is.
Then make up another word for it. Don't plaguarize other people's words because you aren't creative enough to think of a new word.Quote:
Originally Posted by really
Rather, stop speaking.Quote:
Originally Posted by TransientOcclusion
Hypocrisy 1.01 - Learn When to Spot It!
Win, I award you 1439 experience points and 500 gold.Quote:
Originally Posted by RooJ
Nothing's wrong with the world. It's the inner-worlds of most folks that need power-washing and a new coat of paint. I think too many people are way too hard on themselves. They try as much as possible to destroy the real-person (Atman, soul, essence, true-self, innate power; take your pick) out of nurtured shame and disgust. That's how you end up with people who are religious but not spiritual (not caressing and loving the inner-world). That's like being on a rigorous workout plan to lose weight while eating three double-cheeseburger meals a day. You'll feel sick inside and get fed-up with following the plan you've chosen to better yourself.
Oh and please don't get me wrong. Essentially, my views are agnostic. I don't know if the supernatural stuff holds any water. I'm actually leaning toward the idea that the stuff is bogus. But what isn't bogus, however, is that we're all looking for something or someway to fulfill ourselves. Gods and angels and demons are all archetypes of each of our personalities and cultivation of aspects of yourself is easier when you have a model to go off of.
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by TransientOcclusion
(ineffable)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClouD
I forget who sai it original but it went like this: This is the best of all possible worlds.
Think about that.
This is. Consider that.
Then drop it so that you may just be.
Just
Lets say This exact same world, minus scissors in that plastic packaging that you can only open with scissors? That would be a better world, in just about every definition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnius Deus
Then again, definitions of 'perfect' are vague, and at most nothing but a definition, a man-made concept. It's the same as the words good, nice, beautiful, sweet, cold and wack. Some people like to repeat the word 'perfect' as a mantra, a magical word explaining everything you apply it to. They never bother to define the word. The world isn't any more as 'perfect' as possible as it is as 'nice' as possible or as 'wack' as possible.
Also, the whole confusing determinism with the ambiguous word 'perfect'... it's just to silly for words. - Gosh, everything is determined, lets call the world 'solid', yeaaaa, it's one solid world. And 'solid', man, that sounds cool, doesn't it? I should totally say that, man, just let go of your ego, 'coz the world is solid, yeaaaaaa. It doens't matter it's a nonsensical word I never reflect on, it just feels good to live in a world of pseudo-scientific theories I made up stoned. /end impression/
Hahaha.. I bet those really exist, but scissors without plastic packaging exist too :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Neruo
I understand what you mean, but my point was, if you believe in evolution, then the ways how things went, were the only possible way they could have gone. So what's the point in feeling sad or be angry about this world not being perfect, because this is the only possible world we can have on the way to perfect? So in every definition, this world is already perfect.Quote:
Then again, definitions of 'perfect' are vague, and at most nothing but a definition, a man-made concept. It's the same as the words good, nice, beautiful, sweet, cold and wack. Some people like to repeat the word 'perfect' as a mantra, a magical word explaining everything you apply it to. They never bother to define the word. The world isn't any more as 'perfect' as possible as it is as 'nice' as possible or as 'wack' as possible.
Also, the whole confusing determinism with the ambiguous word 'perfect'... it's just to silly for words. - Gosh, everything is determined, lets call the world 'solid', yeaaaa, it's one solid world. And 'solid', man, that sounds cool, doesn't it? I should totally say that, man, just let go of your ego, 'coz the world is solid, yeaaaaaa. It doens't matter it's a nonsensical word I never reflect on, it just feels good to live in a world of pseudo-scientific theories I made up stoned. /end impression/
We evolve from animals to humans to God. We don't instantly became humans from apes. People who don't realize this are the people who complain about the world. Have patience, you can't expect apes to instantly magicly turn into true human beings. Evolution takes time. Evolution is not magic.
Everyone who claims the world isn't perfect, expects that evolution happens in a fingersnap... be realistic.. evolution takes time.
There's always a better way to do things, the definition of perfection includes perfection to the infinite. If you can see this, you can see this world is already perfect, it just gets more and more perfect each day, to the infinite. The only reason why we think this world is not perfect, is because we can come up with a better way to do things. But this better way to do things WILL manifest itself over time, no matter what. This is called evolution... denying perfection is denying evolution.
Stop talking about it then.Quote:
Originally Posted by really
BzzzzQuote:
Originally Posted by Omicron
Listen to themanboyfly, really,
or swat it and watch it bleed.
Either way, perfection is described every single moment.
We are living, breathing, talking and expressing perfection.
What else can possibly exist but perfection.
You must have missed what I have said in this thread. Such irony; we can only talk about things. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Omicron
:) Yes...Quote:
Originally Posted by ClouD
it's stunning...
Chaos is what the Cosmos looks like to a confused mind...
Perhaps if we run out into the world with no shoes on and a bucket on our head, we will then suddenly think Perfection is not real? :D
They do, and it a perfect world they shouldn't. Why couldn't there be a world, for instance in a parallel universe of some sort, or just a different universe that might occur after this one 'crunches' and bangs again with different parameters (some physics theory).Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba
No, not really. There is a difference between determinism and perfection. I myself am deterministic: I say everything has but one way of happening, and my choices and actions, as everyone else's, are illusions. I still call your perfection-theory bullshit. Perfection is still a word. Words are in our minds. When I think of a perfect world, I think of one where there for one is no world hunger (and no blatantly stupid people plz). That is what perfection means. It doesn't mean "the way it is now and the way it will be". Just because our world is in a way unchangeable in it's course does in no way mean you have to apply a positive connotation to it. Positive connotations, our evolution reserved for puppies, candy and children's laughter. Dying children in Africa with flies on them arn't perfect. They are bound to be there. A thousand years ago there was no other way for events to happen than to cause this thousand years later, so? What does perfection has to do with that? Why not chance "perfect" with "set". Or like I said, solid. REALLY, why not?Quote:
I understand what you mean, but my point was, if you believe in evolution, then the ways how things went, were the only possible way they could have gone. So what's the point in feeling sad or be angry about this world not being perfect, because this is the only possible world we can have on the way to perfect? So in every definition, this world is already perfect.
Doesn't sound so much fun? Is that it? You want to say 'Oooowwww, the world is so peeeerfect' ^_______^ that's just delusional.
What? Did I accidentally brought my wizard hat and wand to my previous post? When did anyone say evolution was magic?Quote:
We evolve from animals to humans to God. We don't instantly became humans from apes. People who don't realize this are the people who complain about the world. Have patience, you can't expect apes to instantly magicly turn into true human beings. Evolution takes time. Evolution is not magic.
Also, if you think evolution is a 'ladder only up' to a 'clear, defined or at least certain but unknow, goal' you really don't understand evolution. We are not going to evolve to 'god'. Evolution is no concious process with a goal. Evolution is the process were stuff that survives keeps on surviving. That's all. No godly stuff there, just matter crawling around. (Awesomely hilarious matter sometimes, but nothing devine.)
edit: Oh yeah, read up on how evolution really works. Read some Dawkins or something. Also read the God Delusion. Just cross out "god" and put "new age evolving-to-gods/perfection-theory" in those gaps :)
Big fat lol at contradiction. It's perfect! And getting perfecter every day! There is a reason 'perfecter' doesn't exist, it is self-refuting. Especially in your seemingly metaphysical nonsense theory. :)Quote:
Everyone who claims the world isn't perfect, expects that evolution happens in a fingersnap... be realistic.. evolution takes time.
There's always a better way to do things, the definition of perfection includes perfection to the infinite. If you can see this, you can see this world is already perfect, it just gets more and more perfect each day, to the infinite. The only reason why we think this world is not perfect, is because we can come up with a better way to do things. But this better way to do things WILL manifest itself over time, no matter what. This is called evolution... denying perfection is denying evolution.
Jesus, you are really waiting for the 'time till we evolve into gods'. As the religious nuts waiting for their saviour, the alien-conspiracy nuts to be taken to Pluto, and the astrology nuts waiting for their divine faith to unwind as big fat balls of flaming gas billions of miles away 'told them so'.
http://www.iraqwar.co.uk/kimphuc2.jpg
http://www.israelnewsagency.com/cherney911terrorism.jpg
http://todbrilliant.com/wp-content/u...starvation.jpg
What the hell is up with you douches. Seriously half the people in this thread should be shipped off to Zimbabwe.
No, I'm waiting for the rest of the humans to evolve into God, or better said, to realize they are God.. I'm already there. So was Jesus..Quote:
Originally Posted by Neruo
Btw Xei, you already posted those pics. Those pics are a direct result of our free will. You want free will? Well, thats what we do with it. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
I tried posting one before but it didn't work, and I can't see it in the thread now... phpBB fucked up again I suppose.
Anyway, that's another common argument which pisses me off to no end.
How are viruses the result of free will?
And a reality in which you can't have your cake and eat it is not a perfect reality. Case closed.
You have it backwards. Order is what the cosmos looks like to the deluded mind. Really, there is no mind to percieve chaos or order.Quote:
Originally Posted by really
I think what we have here is a misrepresentation of a misinterpretation of a misunderstanding of some good and solid ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neruo
Also, keep in mind that everything is a (hu)man made concept. Your first reaction might be that things exist independantly of humankind, and this might be true, but our perceptions and interpretation of those things are soully inside ourselves, and our communication and understanding is based entirely on human knowledge. No matter what you choose to ponder, discuss, or otherwise turn your attention to; it will be a purely (hu)man made concept and so dismissing something as ambiguous or vague because it is (hu)man made is arbitrary and meaningless in and of itself. Perfection exists no more or less than solid matter simply because we have a word for it, and therefore some perception of it. Our conceptualizaton of perfection may be loosely formed and hardly understood, but the fact remains that it does exist in some capacity.
If we use eyes of the world, we see suffering. If we surrender them, we see Reality; beyond the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xei
This is a hypothetical reality, it is therefore not actuality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xei
My point was, if we use the system of imperfection and judgment (ego/mind) we see chaos. If we do not use it, nothing is distorted. Afterward, even saying, or thinking "user" and "using" is stopped.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaqaria
I.e. ignore it and focus on my own peace of my mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by really
Basically.
Yeah, it's one that Chayba hypothesised and I showed that it still didn't provide a loophole for him. Please keep up with the discussion.Quote:
This is a hypothetical reality
Edit: wait what??? phpBB is now showing me as the creator of this thread... I posted that picture on the second page of Chayba's thread. What the fuck is up with these forums...
The thread is better that way anyway because it's totally sarcastic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xei
lawl I guess you're right actually.
I really don't like the word perfect, its dualistic
on one end if you say the world isn't perfect, you are recognizing there are REAL problems in the world that NEED TO CHANGE
but it also sends out the message that these problems will never change, because the world isn't perfect, therefore as an imperfect world it will always have problems
on the other end if you say the world is perfect, obviously this pisses off people because of the real problems that need change
but the flip side to this statement is - these problems can change and disappear forever - because the world is perfect
I personally like to say perfection is like evolution, you reach for it. Or like the big bang, exploding and spreading out. At first it all seems like chaos, then there is order. I say the earth can reach perfection. Because the reality that most of the world lives in abject poverty is unimaginable for a westerner.
But there is another reality, a real true factual reality for earth that is even more unimaginable. And that is, there is actually enough for everyone. The world is big enough, there is enough food, there is enough water - there are enough willing minds to learn, or teach. Poverty CAN disappear, it is a real potential because the world has that sort of bounty in its reach.
This is a reality however, big industry evil corporations don't want you to know about. They want you to think of the world as lacking. That we have to fight for supplies, rather than the truth there is enough for everyone. But for there to be enough for everyone, things do have to change. Especially, the way the world economy works.
We're talking about now, not the future. When people say 'the world is not perfect', what they mean is 'the world is not perfect now', clearly. It may or may not be in the future. Do you take issue with that statement?
Seriously since when do you use an adjective to describe something in the future? By that logic I should say that you're already dead. That's not how the English language works...
You can say that you will be dead. Or my car will drive faster and be blue. You just have to include the future tense.
Happiness is just an emotion and has nothing do with the world being perfect or not.
Although perfect is really subjective though.......so....
If "you're" not happy wouldn't that instead make "you" not perfect?
Drop what is false to reveal what is True. Suffering is an illusion. These people suffer in these images, but to be enlightened is to realize they suffer by thinking illusion is real. All of this is part of growth, all people are Perfect, all people are innocent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serkat
My point is, that what argues about imperfections is hypothetical; symbolic illusions. At the same time, it is real by virtue of itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xei
Since unhappiness is the consequence of identifying with spurious imperfections, it would seem so.Quote:
Originally Posted by malac
Most people missed my point I think. Maybe I skipped too many steps.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba
I started from the assumption, that this world is perfect. (and if you want to join this discussion, you should take this assumption too)
Then I reasoned, if this world is perfect, how come we don't experience it like perfect?
And I came to the solution, that you need to change yourself, in order to experience this world as perfect.
Yeah maybe this is a better way of putting it. That's why I think you need to change yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by malac
I've learned this from my dreams, that my emotions are a product of my imagination. In my dreams I can create whatever emotion I want, but they are pure imagination! But they feel as real as real emotions and sometimes even better and more intense. So I realized it was possible to change yourself through the use of your imagination to experience these dream-emotions during daily life.
My dreams have thought me that most things in real life are actually your imagination. And that you can take control over those things, just like you can take control over your dreams. And then I realized this world is perfect, because it is almost exactly like a huge shared dream. We are just all co-creators of this dream.
Maybe we can't fly IRL, but we can create emotions of pure happiness by pure will power and imagination ,just like we do in our lucid dreams. I believe the power of lucid dreaming to induce desirable emotions can also be used during waking life.
After this is done, you see that you were Perfect anyway. All fear, was thus nothing but "pretend".Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba
Yes, religious people are experts in starting from unfounded totally ridiculous assumptions and arguing from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba
Well it is what it is. There's a little wiggle room if you work at it, but it's much easier to work on yourself. Someones sig line said that the ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine, and I think that's probably about as close as anyone is going to get to living in a perfect world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba
This additude of acceptance of evils is most unrealistic in times like these. There are alot of great evils in this world that are Man-Mad and unnececairy. These evils would cease to be if human beings felt more in control of this world's condition and their life's quality. Telling people the world is perfect as it is and couldn't possibly have been any different is making people feel oblivious to fate and unable to change anything.
This world can be ALOT better than it is now. COULD have been allready. This world is a paradise indeed, but a troubled paradise for sure. Paradise mixed with manmade pain. MANMADE: we are able to get rid of these evils if we properly connected with pure intentions to change this world for the better.
This ain't no time to accept the impurities of this World: They will rot away the core of life and our existance in it if we accept them. They are serious impurities of heart & mind. Serious impurities that will have serious repercussions if we continue cling on to these evil ways.
I am proud at my world view: I have a strong Morality and therefor STRONGLY disagree with certain ways of human being. Good thing I have morality which leads me to suffer in seeing wrongs: This Morality is what makes people build humanitairian laws, persecute warcriminals and genocide-generals and sign Peace treaties. This world could have alot better than it is today, but without Morality(sense of right and wrong) it would have been alot Worse for sure. Don't mock Morality as an inferior feature of our Minds that only leads to suffering. If we wouldn't suffer in seeing what is wrong, it is because we wouldn't care. What a cold world that would be.
The only thing is that if everyone came to this realization, I'm willing to bet that all man-made suffering would cease. So in a way, it is a path to ending suffering. Also, who said you can't try to eliminate suffering or acknowledge and deal with crime in a perfect world? I think you may have a different interpretation of the word perfect than I do.
Brilliantly nonsensical bullshit claim that Christians also use. Free will? Hunger, death and disease were with mankind before, after and during it's transition to anything we could call having free will. Also, if you are one of those retarded 'the world is perfect' bullshitters, you can't also believe in contingency-causing free will. Also, reffering to yourself as 'god' is just bullshit semantics that makes you and steven seagall (also a self-proclaimed god) look like fucking idiots that live in a made up dreamworld and ignore reality. My definition of what you refer to as 'god' is, if applied to people, best described as 'silly define: megalomaniac hippies'. With all due respect. By the way, if you google for "Define: megalomaniac", you actually get:Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba
And that's coming from a hippy new-age bullshit site, to top it off. lol.Quote:
a person who is filled with grandiosity rather than Spiritual grandeur. The New Age Movement is full of these kinds of people. People claiming to be avatars, incarnations of the Masters, famous past life personages, claiming to be saints, claiming to have Hindu deities as children, claiming to have Spiritual experiences they never had, claiming they are Buddha Maitreya, claiming they are Babaji, claiming they are John of Penial, Edgar Cayce, the list is endless. 99.99% of the time this is total negative ego self delusion and self deception but in a megalomanic form! Another example is someone who claims to be at the 352nd level of initiation and someone who claims to be omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent.
Lol, you just misunderstood, I'm a part of God, just like everyone is a part of God. That's what I meant.
Just like when I'm dreaming, a dream character is me, but only a part of me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xei
are you arguing against me?
if you are I have no idea what on earth you are babbling about. who said I was only talking about the future?
if you do not however believe you even have a future - you're morality and humanity can be suspended. thinking in terms of only right now doesn't solve problems if you believe there is no future
first you have to imagine a better future and then compare that better future to right now, and see what is it about right now that needs to change for that better future: to be now
Yeah I know new-age wankers like to use words that sound really impressive, but mean shit in the way they use it. God, perfect, energy, soul. All nonsense words that can be replaced with clearer words, but that would undermine the entire new-age way of making things sound really cool without having a single grain of scientific, logically, empirical or coherent value. By definition new-age hippies, that like to make up their own worlds and definition of words, in which everything is perfect and god and this and that, can't use normal words, or describe things in a objective, non-emotional way because that is all their nonsense is: a shell of nice sounding reassuring words and assumptions with no core of evidence, and no intelligence around to change that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba
Yeah, you're so right, energy is total bullshit man. Who the hell came up with that idea? It should be banned from all use forever. We should also take another look at the mathematical proof that all matter is energy, e=mc², what did Einstein know? Lol this guy talking about energy, he must be crazy!
Your right. Life is so much better when you let others make your world for you. (sarcasm) You create your world. your world is your perspective. How you percieve the things around you. Everything is perfect. We just have a desire for things to be orderly. To fit in to a certain pattern. Look inward and you will find that everything is perfect. Thats what it means. Meditate.
core of evidence
The world itself is indeed perfect, but I do not mean here the phenomenal world we live in. There is enormous suffering, caused by selfishness. The world is perfect in that the possibility of nirvana exists. Nirvana is perfect.
Suffering is the result of ignorance.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaia
Also, since Nirvana is the ultimate Reality, the world Is Perfect.
Yes, you were so right picking out that one irrelevant part of my post. Because Einstein would completely agree with the 'energy' of feng shui. The 'energy' of 'healing stones'. The 'energy' of the 'soul'. The 'energy' that Venus gives you when it is near the constellation of Leo. Man, would Einstein say "Yo homie, that is totally the way energy works!", or what? Hell yea he would! Einstein would just love that 'spiritual energy' new-age people talk about. That 'energy' of the ground. Man. The 'energy' of Chi, and the 'energy' of crystals.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba
Einstein would Totally dig that stuff. Okay, it all isn't scientific in any way, but Einstein could look past the lack of all that way unnecessary 'scientific method' stuff. Right? Hell yeah.
-
Seriously, ChaybaChayba, you're such an idiot sometimes.
"Energy" is simply an overused word, like "God". You need to put these words into context.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neruo
The "energy" of the sun is composed of thermal, nuclear, and electromagnetic energy. The "energy" of the soul is "love". The "energy" of music can be seen objectively as its textures, or subjectively as its inspiration and feel.
No.
Baseless?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xei
Exactly, the baselessness and unfoundedness of your ideas is probably why he said 'no'.Quote:
Originally Posted by really
Don't be so hard on yourselves...
What you are looking for is what is looking...
Spoiler for Peek:
I'm not sure, it could be anything at this stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neruo
Just out of curiousity, how many perfect circles have people drawn without stencils?
Perfection is unconditional in this context.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoSioType
But, why not ask if your stencils have perfect circles?
So thats where I put it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclic13
But, honestly what is baseless about really's claim. It makes perfect sense to me. The energy that powers my body is not the same that powers a car. Are you trying to say that there is only one kind of energy?
The paradoxical irony of one's criticism is...
Baselessness is the basis on which all things are based...
Something from nothing... if you will...
:chuckle:
No, I am saying claims like "The energy of the soul is love" are complete bullshit. Don't tell me you haven't noticed the love new-age retards have for the word 'energy'?Quote:
Originally Posted by stonedape
But really, is the claim "the energy of the soul is love" based on anything but some childish pseudo-physiological thoughts? Do you think this 'really' guy has the slightest of knowledge about the human brain, neurology, psychology, and things you would normally need to have to make a claim about the essence of the human mind? No. 'Really' is a complete non-scientific retard that needs to go to university, or maybe even a proper high-school, and drop his simple-minded ideas that are not founded on anything at all, but pulled out of their made-up and wished-for metaphysical butthole. Have you ever seen never or any of these new-age wankers make the slightest effort of presenting arguments for their case that are not themselves new-age dogmas? There is a good reason why among people that make their jobs out of finding out truth, scientists, there are no hippy-jokers like 'really' around, their made-up ideas have nothing to stand on. I might just as well try to convince physicists gravity is actually caused by invisible gnomes pulling stuff to celestial bodies, and I know this for sure because I felt the 'energy' of those gnomes and I just know it.
Or do you believe 'really' will one day be a great scientist? If his claims are so true, and if he arrived at them by good unbiased reasons, he will have no problem convincing others with his great reasons of why he is right. Thus revolutionising science.
Probably 'really' will either grow up and drop his nonsense, run a bong-shop, or go on welfare.
It is based on experience. If you do not acknowledge the existance of a soul, you can not experience it. I don't see how so many people come to the same conclusion as really if he's just making it up.
Scientists study the physical. Philosophers study reality. There's more to life than science my friend.
I actually study philosophy at the moment, and there are quite some philosophers these days that believe that everything is in the end (directly resulting from) matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by stonedape
Why could only someone that 'acknowledge the existence of a soul' experience it? Why should it work like that? That sounds like the standard 'only Christians/Muslims can truly feel god/allah' defence. Also, believing in the (immortality of) the soul isn't all that strange, and there are evolutionary/cultural theories on why exactly people believe in souls. It isn't true because a great deal of people believe it is so. A great deal of people at some point in the history of the world believed in astrology. And why not? They look special, they must be special, is the reasoning. And it doesn't harm assuming stars predict your future. Might even be a pleasant way to make hard decisions. Same with souls. The way our mind handles thinking about other people is structured in such a way that believing 'they are still there' when they are dead isn't so strange. And it doesn't really hurt you, from an evolutionary / cultural-succes perspective. A group that feels as if their ancestors is looking over them might even be more successful and structured than a group of people that don't believe that. :)
Everything that you see, smell, taste, or touch can be explained by the phsical, but that does not mean that there isn't anything spiritual.
What I mean is that you have to open your mind to the possiblity, or you won't experience it. Beliefs effect your perception, you should know this from science.
But I don't think that when you die your soul is still there. Reincarnation is far more complex than that. Far more than I initially thought and I still don't fully understand it yet. I think it has a lot to do with weather or not time is "real". But you don't seem to like metaphysics so I don't know if I can properly explain it.http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...t=64828&page=3
So if I believe in the existence of the soul, and feel something from inside, that means souls exist? What about people that feel god, Allah, Vishnu, the holy ghost, the magical workings of their 'healing stones', the magical workings of acupuncture, the magical workings of feng shui.Quote:
Originally Posted by stonedape
Is that all as real too, because people believe it and feel it? If anything, be sceptical about something that only 'believers' can feel.
I've spent enough time being skeptical. I was an aetheist for 3 years. People who believe these things usually just don't have an accurate way of describing their experience so they say God did it.
I've had an OBE, thats enough proof for me.
I think as advanced as the field of science is, it will never have all the answers to all of our questions. So I don't limit myself to just scientific reasoning for all my questions. Science has a time and a place for its use, and that certainly isn't all the time and everywhere.
Energy is quite real. It exists as resultant chemicals found in the brain through computations performed by the hippocamus.
Who cares what it's called? A name isQuote:
Originally Posted by Neruo
just a symbol!
It's based on the understandings of the psych/psychology, brain physiology, the ego, spirituality, and thus, in essence: the field of subjectivity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neruo
You might be very surprised. Stop judging by appearances.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neruo
The spiritual understanding is quite different from worldly understanding. As I have mentioned quite a lot in this forum, it is very useful to understand the mind before searching for higher truths which are beyond the mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neruo
Since a lot of these expressions have always been true, it really won't change anything. Besides, it is not in the domain of science; science has nothing to do with it. It is all quite simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neruo
Stop wondering about what I'll become. All Is Perfect, when things change, they move from Perfect to Perfect. So, even your "wondering" is perfect, but you do not realize this.
Again, it's quite simple. You cannot expect to reveal what is true through ignorance of what is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neruo
There is a lot of dogma and confused believers and non-believers out there, so it is recommended to maturely do a lot of wise research. The only thing that matters is what is essential.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neruo
There you are! :D Such are very transformative experiences, similar to near-death experiences.Quote:
Originally Posted by stonedape
All is not perfect. ALL IS THE OSTENSIVELY BLUE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTERQuote:
Originally Posted by really
Even that is Perfect.
I Don't (Do Not) like it when RANDOM FORUM GOERS redefinine the parameters of a commonly known word...Quote:
Originally Posted by really
Tough titty.Quote:
Originally Posted by TransientOcclusion
While it may be a commonly known word. It has many common uses, each of them slightly different. Words are only there to help us express our thoughts, if you do not understand the use of one, ask how it is being used and I'm sure someone will tell you how it's being used in this context.Quote:
Originally Posted by TransientOcclusion
How can you re-define something which is beyond definition? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by TransientOcclusion
DIFFERENT CONTEXT
If I remember correctly, you said that to me last night?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Enterer