Thread: Why do we struggle to survive?

Originally Posted by Dreams4free

Science has shown that everything that we find satisfaction in derives from survival. I rather not go in to detail because I take it for granted that you guys are smart enough not to waste your time arguing over it. Please don't waste time disbursing your cognitive function, just focus on the next point using this as a precursor.

Arguable, but we'll see if you hold substance.

My conclusion to survival is purpose. Not purpose in the context of any "a" value, purpose merely in of itself as it pertains to the individual. For example, some might find life as a religious test of faith; a marathon with a magical wonderland for those who conform to "b" principles. Other may see it through the perception of "c" religion's principles. It goes on and on, essentially it comes down to the philosophy of "c" religion and how they explain your being.

*Nod*

Purpose is a void of nothingness with no absolute. "The quest is to be liberated from the negative". We live in a space time of only the present. The past and the future are only moments of a present time. We dwell in a constant "c". The derivative of any constant with no "x", no variable subject to anything, mathematically is a absolute value of 0. This would logically justify our desire for survival in coherence with the quote above. When I say that purpose has no absolute, It means that purpose fundamentally is not a destiny or a explanation, it's only a indefinite means to a indefinite end. Why did I eat the cookie? for the purpose of my hunger. For what purpose comes hunger? Well, its the body way of knowing that you need to eat to survive. What purpose comes survival? On and on and on. We eventually hit a void where we don't know. We don't have a distinct truth through the 5 senses or any technologies of the f(x) that all these derivatives come from. We just hit a 0. We evaluate all these values to a degree that is theoretical and practically invalid for the human's mind.

I think I almost completely agree. I can see how you can be misinterpreted as being a cynic and saying that purpose and meaning is meaningless.. but it seems to me you are saying that the purpose, or relevant f(x) of each individual is a relative and inconsequential thing. I may be wording this wrong, but just run with me for a moment.

I cannot neglect the fact that, regardless of how much you embrace "carpe diem" or "living without meaning" you cannot ignore the countless memories and cognitive functions that you have used in the past and all these are integrated into each living moment. In order to truly "live without purpose" or "struggle for 0" you would have to really have a form of amnesia. Would you not?

I struggle for a 0. What do you survive for?

Answering your question, I survive for no reason other than to survive. I would kill myself, but I would much rather live because I am under the impression that I have a great gift of having a form of consciousness. Also, I am under the impression that there is nothing after death.. so I also have absolutely no reason to kill myself.

What do you think...?

~

Originally Posted by Dreams4free

Read Kierkegaard.. your life lacked passion thereby you smoked cigarettes because obviously your life didn't satisfy you enough.. you needed something different to make it interesting.

Pardon the expression, but I believe that's a crock. If you seek to experience something different from (or, more appropriately, "in addition to") what you are used to, that is because your life lacks passion, and you're turning to something else because you aren't content?

That doesn't hold up, in so many situations. I have handfuls of hobbies and things that I find interesting. I have plenty of different recreational activities that I'm into, that I don't always come into at the same time. Does the fact that I have so many areas of interest mean that I lack passion? If I experience something brand new, tomorrow, that I find intriguing, and I do it again, it is because my life 'lacks passion, and I'm not happy?"

So, to be happy, is to restrict yourself to a linear, complacent lifestyle, and to consider the wanton curiosity of different things as a sign of no passion for the things you already enjoy? Is that about right?

I may or may not read Kierkegaard. We'll see.

Originally Posted by Dreams4free

We defiantly responded logically to every situation. Everything that we think of is logical to ourselves as a individual.

This is invalid; that's the point. Everybody's "logic" is different, and therefore there's no reason to call it "logic" in a contextual statement. If it were to be truly logical, everybody's actions would be predictable, understandable and rational; everybody would function identically with the same purposes, perceptions and intelligence as each other, and thus, everybody would be equivalent to an automaton. This is not the case.

Originally Posted by Dreams4free

How is consciousness non-linear? Maybe in a dream when you gain consciousness, you can commit to non-linear aspects they may not be normally "proportional". But consciousness in of itself is self awareness, that in turn creates a inward reflective pondering of self. Which thereby creates philosophical questioning of self, and people relative to self. How are human's not under the logical reasoning of cause on effect. We generally understand everything we do has repercussion of a greater or lesser degree. Independently of our creator as far as we know are our parents.

Consciousness is non-linear for one reason because it is intangible and exists prior to perception. It subjectively contextualizes behavior, awareness, perception, etc. A robot basically functions on account of sensors and programs, which are very limited on their own. So the problem is that humans can create sensors and programs, but have no comprehensive way to "create" consciousness.

Causality is a limited understanding of Reality. You say that your parents created you, but then who created your parents? It is not resolvable.

I don't live with a purpose. My ascendency was naturally selected to have the instinct to survive. I don't necessarily have to abide by it. Survival is just an instinct as any other. Purpose is something humans made up.

Stop trying to give meaning to what doesn't have one, people. We are humans with instincts. Welcome to the jungle.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

I don't live with a purpose. My ascendency was naturally selected to have the instinct to survive. I don't necessarily have to abide by it. Survival is just an instinct as any other. Purpose is something humans made up.

Stop trying to give meaning to what doesn't have one, people. We are humans with instincts. Welcome to the jungle.

"It is impossible to believe in nothing" - Albert Einstein

Surely you have convinced yourself that you have a fundamental reason to keep yourself motivated in your life. That reason... that motivation, is your purpose, regardless of how you try to phrase it.

Originally Posted by Dreams4free

"It is impossible to believe in nothing" - Albert Einstein

Surely you have convinced yourself that you have a fundamental reason to keep yourself motivated in your life. That reason... that motivation, is your purpose, regardless of how you try to phrase it.

...not really.

Originally Posted by Dreams4free

Surely you have convinced yourself that you have a fundamental reason to keep yourself motivated in your life. That reason... that motivation, is your purpose, regardless of how you try to phrase it.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

...not really.

I agree with Kromoh. Some people get so caught up in the superficial, they forget to realize that some things just don't have an official explanation - they just are. Not everyone gets caught up in trying to create a "reason" for why they exist. They just exist, and many of them attribute their 'carrying on' to fleeting moments of happiness that they just are not ready to give up on.

That is one of the reasons why you can't always expect for there to be a "motivation" for each person to keep going on. People just go on. Their 'motivation' may be nothing more than entertainment. It may be something deeper. In the end, though, it all comes down to the fact that people have different drives and different motivations. You can search all of your life and never find the objectivity in something that really doesn't have an objective answer. This would be one of those things.

[Edit: And as far as the Einstein quote is concerned: Not believing in a 'purpose for your existence' is not synonymous with 'believing in nothing.'[/Edit]

there is no predetermined purpose for our lives, we're just sort of here. Your life obtains a purpose when you give it one - in other words, you decide what the purpose of your own life is.

The innate purpose of life is to be what we are, and that is effortless. We fulfill our potential just by existing and growing, forever.

Originally Posted by really

The innate purpose of life is to be what we are, and that is effortless. We fulfill our potential just by existing and growing, forever.

Well said, really.

~

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Pardon the expression, but I believe that's a crock. If you seek to experience something different from (or, more appropriately, "in addition to") what you are used to, that is because your life lacks passion, and you're turning to something else because you aren't content?

That doesn't hold up, in so many situations. I have handfuls of hobbies and things that I find interesting. I have plenty of different recreational activities that I'm into, that I don't always come into at the same time. Does the fact that I have so many areas of interest mean that I lack passion? If I experience something brand new, tomorrow, that I find intriguing, and I do it again, it is because my life 'lacks passion, and I'm not happy?"

So, to be happy, is to restrict yourself to a linear, complacent lifestyle, and to consider the wanton curiosity of different things as a sign of no passion for the things you already enjoy? Is that about right?

I may or may not read Kierkegaard. We'll see.

I think you should, the post you quoted was a piss poor explanation of Kierkegaard's position.

My reason for choosing to continue to exist is constantly changing. My experiences and my mind shape the development of that reason. At the moment it goes a bit like this: I exist to be happy.

To the OP:
You have some interesting ideas but i think a bit more respect of others would help to facilitate more productive discussion. Your reasons for existence apply only to yourself.