Should a criminal be punished for a crime he doesn't remember?

[Noogah]

Hypothetically speaking, what do you think should be done to a criminal who doesn't remember his crimes? Lets say, to help you get a perception, that his crimes were of great magnitude, like death roll worthy, and that his memory was not erased by a feeble disease. He took some kind of special pill designed to erase his memories specifically about his crimes, and former life.(Remember, this is only hypothetical) What would you say should be done to him? I personally think he should be left alive, with supervision.

[khh]

S/He has still committed the crimes, and I don't think that erasing ones memory really changes that. You're still as prone to commit such crimes again. So I guess I'd suggest that normal justice should be applied. Though special care should be given to making him/her realize that they really did commit the crimes, as they'd certainly feel like the victim of some conspiracy otherwise.

[Sornaensis]

Hypothetically speaking, what do you think should be done to a criminal who doesn't remember his crimes? Lets say, to help you get a perception, that his crimes were of great magnitude, like death roll worthy, and that his memory was not erased by a feeble disease. He took some kind of special pill designed to erase his memories specifically about his crimes, and former life.(Remember, this is only hypothetical) What would you say should be done to him? I personally think he should be left alive, with supervision. What? Ignorance is not a defense. That's like saying you didn't know about a law, and thus must be excused from the consequences of breaking it.

[Noogah]

S/He has still committed the crimes, and I don't think that erasing ones memory really changes that. You're still as prone to commit such crimes again. So I guess I'd suggest that normal justice should be applied. Though special care should be given to making him/her realize that they really did commit the crimes, as they'd certainly feel like the victim of some conspiracy otherwise. I think I agree. I think the whole memory thing would be virtually suicidal, because any good concioused person would be willing to go through punishment for something he was responsible for. Even death.

[Bizarre Jester]

I don't know, I never liked our legal system. I think that if he killed someone, and/or is a flight risk, then he needs to be incarcerated.

[Replicon]

Let me ask you this: What is the purpose of the punishment? What is the purpose of "punishing a crime" to begin with? Is it to deter others? Is it to create consequences so the purpotrator doesn't do it again? Is it just so the surviving victims feel better about getting revenge? What the hell does "justice" mean, anyway? Answering these should be preliminary to having a proper answer to OP's question, would it not?

[Noogah]

Let me ask you this: What is the purpose of the punishment? What is the purpose of "punishing a crime" to begin with? Is it to deter others? Is it to create consequences so the purpotrator doesn't do it again? Is it just so the surviving victims feel better about getting revenge? What the hell does "justice" mean, anyway? Answering these should be preliminary to having a proper answer to OP's question, would it not? Good point!

[ClouD]

Off-topic deleted. Keep that crap to R/S and without the insults, or I will revoke your privileges to post anywhere BUT there. Goes for everyone involved. Protip: Stay away from flaming banwagons.

[Specialis Sapientia]

Let me ask you this: What is the purpose of the punishment? What is the purpose of "punishing a crime" to begin with? Is it to deter others? Is it to create consequences so the purpotrator doesn't do it again? Is it just so the surviving victims feel better about getting revenge? What the hell does "justice" mean, anyway? Answering these should be preliminary to having a proper answer to OP's question, would it not? Yes, this question must be answered first. If the criminal can learn and grow above his former doings why should he not be allowed to. If the memory is gone and he becomes normal why ruin his life? Because of mere revenge? We shouldn't punish just to punish, only do it if it has a certain purpose that is productive for the individual and society.

[Noogah]

This is getting very interesting. But what about the people whom the criminal has harmed? What do we do for them?

[Scatterbrain]

Yes, this question must be answered first. If the criminal can learn and grow above his former doings why should he not be allowed to. If the memory is gone and he becomes normal why ruin his life? Because of mere revenge? We shouldn't punish just to punish, only do it if it has a certain purpose that is productive for the individual and society. I agree. The point of a punishment is to reform the criminal, not to give him comeuppance. If the mind that committed the crimes is erased, there's no purpose in punishment.

[khh]

The point of a punishment is to reform the criminal, not to give him comeuppance. If the mind that committed the crimes is erased, there's no purpose in punishment. Just because a criminal has lost the memory of his or her crime, doesn't mean that they're any less likely to commit a new crime. Also the point of the justice system is part to reform the criminal and part to protect society as a whole.

[Noogah]

Yes it does. Being a whole new person (Or at least, that's what's happening in this hypothetical scenario) with a whole new brain, and memory, he is essentially a new...human. Granted, he has the same body, but with different motives, a restored chemical balance to the brain, and a whole new life ahead of him, he would seem less inclined to crime. Especially if he were to be tutored, and kept under close surveilance. At least for a while.

[Sornaensis]

Ignorance is not a defense. You cannot prove someone does or does not remember something, thus if they are found guilty from substantial evidence they will be, and should be, punished.

[Noogah]

Well, that IS true, but remember that this is hypothetical, and in our hypothetical reality, they DO know.

[khh]

Yes it does. Being a whole new person (Or at least, that's what's happening in this hypothetical scenario) with a whole new brain, and memory, he is essentially a new...human. Granted, he has the same body, but with different motives, a restored chemical balance to the brain, and a whole new life ahead of him, he would seem less inclined to crime. Especially if he were to be tutored, and kept under close surveilance. At least for a while. No-where is it said that chemical balance were restored to the subjects brain (if there was an imbalance in the first place), just that the memories were erased. And we can assume that not all memory is "reset", or else the subject would wind up back at the baby stage, or close to it. And since behaviour is also connected to genetics, and not all of the memory is erased, the subject would have an above average chance of committing a crime again. Besides, purely from a justice point of view, it's not fair that you can do whatever you want, and then be free from all responsibility just cause you popped a pill afterwards.

[Sornaensis]

It is impossible to say then, as the implications of mind reading go far beyond simply seeing if someone remembers a crime, e.t.c. There would be whole new sort of legal system that we know nothing of.

[Robot_Butler]

Criminals aren't punnished. They are removed from society, and then rehabilitated to the point where they can safely return to society. At least, that's the ideal. Punnishment should have nothing to do with it, but sadly, it does for some people.

[Scatterbrain]

He took some kind of special pill designed to erase his memories specifically about his crimes, and former life.(Remember, this is only hypothetical) It's right there in the OP. So no, he should not be punished for his crimes, nobody would benefit from it.

[Unelias]

If you want to support law enforcement, you should always give a punishment if there are evidence of quilty. Sadly, law systems are flawed and honestly speaking very much of a circus. The one reason I don't support modern, organized society.

[Replicon]

If you want to support law enforcement, you should always give a punishment if there are evidence of quilty. Without using the abstract word "justice", what PRACTICAL purpose does punishment have? In what way will the world be better with punishment in this case?

[Sornaensis]

Because with no negative effects of doing something wrong, people will continue for personal gain. I.e. Stealing.

[khh]

Because with no negative effects of doing something wrong, people will continue for personal gain. I.e. Stealing. At least two arguments can be used against this: 1: Today there are negative effects, and people still continue. 2: Today a criminal is very likely to commit crimes again. If they were reformed, which is the alternative we're talking about, they wouldn't.

[ClouD]

And since behaviour is also connected to genetics, and not all of the memory is erased, the subject would have an above average chance of committing a crime again. Everyone has the potential to kill. I don't buy into conscious choice as being massively affected by genetics. And if it is, then who in the world can be held accountable for any of their own actions?

[Unelias]

Without using the abstract word "justice", what PRACTICAL purpose does punishment have? In what way will the world be better with punishment in this case? It will give people yet another illusion that organized society actually works and is able force people into certain behavior patterns, thus providing more safety to the citizens who are already acting like the society wants. I don't believe in justice or what so ever ( oh noes, the forbidden word). People are punished if they are stupid enough to get caught. Not that they should be punished by any moral viewpoint. It is just that some people dislike your actions -> they want to prevent you from acting like that. If they can that is. World will not be any better whether the punishment is executed or not. It is just that other people will feel satisfied as the person who shakes their accustomed patterns is whipped.