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    Thread: Do any of you think language fails at conveying abstract ideas?

    1. 02-28-2010 01:58 PM #51
      dajo
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      Quote Originally Posted by Kromoh View Post
      Perhaps because you only use language to think?

      You should try some visual mental tasks.
      This made me think of a TED Talk I have seen recently by Temple Grandin,
      an autistic woman, who talks about visual thinking vs verbal thinking. I
      enjoyed it and thought that it might fit to the last couple of arguments.

      Temple Grandin: The World Needs All Different Kinds Of Mind

      Quote:

      "Now if you want to understand autism, animals [and art], you have to
      get away from verbal language. I think in pictures, I don't think in language."

      It is undoubtedly true that for most people verbal thinking is intrinsic and
      due to people like Chomsky, we get a far better grasp of how much it is
      words that make up the world around us. I just find it incredibly interesting
      that most people are fundamentally structured through language, yet others
      are just adjusting to the need of it, but are moved by different forces of
      thought, pattern and imagery. What a wonderful diversity of mind we have.
      http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4886/taoistischemeditation1.jpg
      KINGDOM of WONDER
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    2. 02-28-2010 04:16 PM #52
      ClouD
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      Communication has confines, language even more so. Fundamental rules that facilitate such expression also hinder it.
      You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light.
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    3. 03-01-2010 02:50 AM #53
      Mrs. Jones
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      all communication is translation from the abstract to the concrete. counterexamples welcome.
      ex.
      Jack says: love (the thought)
      Jack says: "love" (the representative sound)

      comprehension thereof entails translation from the concrete back to the abstract.
      ex.
      Jill hears: "love" (the sound)
      Jill thinks: love (the thought)

      abstraction is a subjective cognitive process. it didn't exist before capable brains evolved. the "failure" in question is up to the person doing the abstracting. how expressive or perceptive they are- how adept they are at using language as a communicative device.

      maybe i'm too pragmatic. you might find this interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity
      Last edited by Mrs. Jones; 03-01-2010 at 02:53 AM.
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    4. 03-03-2010 07:38 PM #54
      Dannon Oneironaut
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      Agreed. If we can understand it, or at the very least 'know' it, then we can express it. The only things we can not express are things that we don't know in the first place.

      You can explicate any mental image using words.
      Music can be described in words.


      Last edited by Dannon Oneironaut; 03-03-2010 at 07:43 PM.
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