Thread: NIHILISM, the big, backwards, N.

it depends on what kind of beast it really is...

There is a fist pressing against
Anyone who thinks something compelling.
Our intuit were taught to deny, and our soul were told is for selling[/b]

A Nihilism reference source.

www.counter-order.com

A good research website on general topics of society, a sister website of Counter-Order.

www.holology.com

Philosophy, n. A route of many roads leading from nowhere to nothing.

-Ambrose Bierce

but i love it anyway.

Everything's deeper than the definition in "Webster's dictionary".

Look into it until you form your opinions.

that was a definition writen by ambrose bierce. its from his book, the devil's dictionary. hardly websters. i suggest you pick it up, its great... if you're cynical.

When I read point 2,3 and 4 I think I dont like it at all..

"Rejection of all distinctions in moral or religious value and a willingness to repudiate all previous theories of morality or religious belief. "

Where would it go to with the world? If there were no longer religous or moral values it would pretty much turn into the negative energy whole I mentioned earlier somewhere..people would not care for eachother anymore, not help eachother anymore, be selfish like mad..life would be empty without religion aswell..nobody would have a greater goal in life and nothing would be "wrong" and people would pretty much go on killings sprees,rape all around, steal all around and so on. No, definetly not good.

"The belief that destruction of existing political or social institutions is necessary for future improvement. "

Combined with the above, complete chaos and damnation for the entire plane. No more laws? The right of the strongest? That would result in 90% of the planet living in poverty in the end and a few elite rule all.
No more justice..no more social security..and so on. No.

Words such as: materialism, change trough through terrorism and assassination.

Cmmon materialism is the most corrupted and bad thing there is. People are corrupted by materialism and grow selfish, attached to material things, and would do everything for money and power. That combined with terrorism and asasssination, thats absurd..negative energy i say..

There are so much more important things in life..love,hope,compassion,friendship, faith,justice,kindness,being helpful,caring for eachother,spiritual growth..and so on. I cant see what people could see in this philosophy. Its almost..evil.

Where would it go to with the world? If there were no longer religous or moral values it would pretty much turn into the negative energy whole I mentioned earlier somewhere..people would not care for eachother anymore, not help eachother anymore, be selfish like mad..life would be empty without religion aswell..nobody would have a greater goal in life and nothing would be \"wrong\" and people would pretty much go on killings sprees,rape all around, steal all around and so on. No, definetly not good. [/b]

Who decides what is good and evil, you? NO, it would not mean \"killing sprees, rape all around\" because this kind of stuff gets you killed, dumb ass. That's the real reason why people don't do it, not because it's \"wrong\". And what's wrong with selfishness? Everything a person does helps them in some form or another.

Combined with the above, complete chaos and damnation for the entire plane. No more laws? The right of the strongest? That would result in 90% of the planet living in poverty in the end and a few elite rule all.
No more justice..no more social security..and so on. No. [/b]

Once again, you are an idiot. If a society is too flawed, like our own, Nihilism supports the destruction of it. Out of the ashes of the old, a new, better society can be created because all the social and political burnt crust that has been formed from the past will have been torn off the pie. This does not mean \"No rule\" or \"No laws\", that is anarchy. Only laws that make sense would be in place. Think would you?

Cmmon materialism is the most corrupted and bad thing there is. People are corrupted by materialism and grow selfish, attached to material things, and would do everything for money and power. That combined with terrorism and asasssination, thats absurd..negative energy i say..

There are so much more important things in life..love,hope,compassion,friendship, faith,justice,kindness,being helpful,caring for eachother,spiritual growth..and so on. I cant see what people could see in this philosophy. Its almost..evil.[/b]

You have to make sacrifices to make the world a better place. Have you ever heard of the terms Anomie and social decay? Moreover, all the values you just stated are your own. Yes, I do follow these values, all except for faith.

"Who decides what is good and evil, you? NO, it would not mean "killing sprees, rape all around" because this kind of stuff gets you killed, dumb ass. That's the real reason why people don't do it, not because it's "wrong". And what's wrong with selfishness? Everything a person does helps them in some form or another."

I dont decide what good and evil is, but I think its obvious what is good and what is evil..those things that spread postive energy are good and those that spread negative energy are evil. I know that spreading negative energy is inevitable and that negative things can be good for your personal growth but it must be invoked by natural causes.
And you dont keep yourself from raping and killing because you get punished for it, you keep yourself from it because it IS wrong. I dont want to rape, I dont want to kill and if you would do it it you would not get punished for it I think your a sick person without self respect, and respect for others.

Once again, you are an idiot. If a society is too flawed, like our own, Nihilism supports the destruction of it. Out of the ashes of the old, a new, better society can be created because all the social and political burnt crust that has been formed from the past will have been torn off the pie. This does not mean "No rule" or "No laws", that is anarchy. Only laws that make sense would be in place. Think would you?

Tearing down the entire society will result in a dictatorship like society, think communism..facism..Stalin..Hitler..they tried to do the same!
And Im not an idiot.

You have to make sacrifices to make the world a better place. Have you ever heard of the terms Anomie and social decay? Moreover, all the values you just stated are your own. Yes, I do follow these values, all except for faith.

First of all I dont like to make sacrifice in the form of many people to "make the world a better place" while in fact this wont happen anyway.(see above)
And second how can you live by the values I jsut mentioned if you where to follow those theories??? It doesnt fit, you cant be helpful and caring for eachother if you tend to break down the social system.

"Rejection of all distinctions in moral or religious value and a willingness to repudiate all previous theories of morality or religious belief. "

Berserk. It apears to me that your beliefs are not what you really want to be. How old are you? These kind of beliefs are at the extreme but in my opinion are false. You dispute the meaning of Good and Evil? How can you say that these are matters of subjectivity? If someone kills your mother, would you think that as a good thing? If you trully believe these things then you shouldn't take it wrong.

"The belief that destruction of existing political or social institutions is necessary for future improvement. "

The theory of "the birth from the asses" is quite old. Things might not be very good everywhere but to return to the society of animals wouldn't help. In order for evolution to take place we should walk through the wrong paths and learn from our mistakes. With your kind of philosophy we should start again, well, where do you thing we will end? We will end at exactly the same result. We can't built an Utopia, these theories have failed in the past. Coruption and ambition will allways be present, and will affect everything.

Moreover, all the values you just stated are your own. Yes, I do follow these values, all except for faith.[/b]

Well there are two posibilities:

A) You do. That results that your philosophy is false and even you dont believe what you're saying.

B)You dont. That results that you are a liar or not able to judge youself.

P.S:sorry for my English

I dont decide what good and evil is, but I think its obvious what is good and what is evil..those things that spread postive energy are good and those that spread negative energy are evil. I know that spreading negative energy is inevitable and that negative things can be good for your personal growth but it must be invoked by natural causes.
And you dont keep yourself from raping and killing because you get punished for it, you keep yourself from it because it IS wrong. I dont want to rape, I dont want to kill and if you would do it it you would not get punished for it I think your a sick person without self respect, and respect for others. [/b]

You have to know human psychology to know WHY we have the distinction \"Good and evil\". Evil is bad for the society and thus something set as bad. Killing is not wrong, rape is not wrong, nothing is wrong or right, it's just what it is. I would kill if I had to, and I have very much self-respect thank you very much. Don't assume what I am.

Tearing down the entire society will result in a dictatorship like society, think communism..facism..Stalin..Hitler..they tried to do the same!
And Im not an idiot. [/b]

Hitler and Stalin were idiots because of their goals, it was the same as the old system exactly. Communism doesn't work because it degrades the monetary system and the upper crust control everything. Fascism does work until revolution, thus fascism works longer, but is not preferable to the people.

First of all I dont like to make sacrifice in the form of many people to \"make the world a better place\" while in fact this wont happen anyway.(see above)
And second how can you live by the values I jsut mentioned if you where to follow those theories??? It doesnt fit, you cant be helpful and caring for eachother if you tend to break down the social system.[/b]

Everything ever done, EVER to make the world a better place, any revolution, any time someones saves someone or helps someone is sacrificing a part of themselves. Revolutions and wars take sacrifices, death, to end and make for a better place.
I can believe the in values you just mentioned because I follow my own morality. I also believe that my morality could be flawed but it's beneficial to me at the moment.

Berserk. It apears to me that your beliefs are not what you really want to be. How old are you? These kind of beliefs are at the extreme but in my opinion are false. You dispute the meaning of Good and Evil? How can you say that these are matters of subjectivity? If someone kills your mother, would you think that as a good thing? If you trully believe these things then you shouldn't take it wrong. [/b]

I am 14 years old, yet, if I told you if I was 18, you would take me much more seriously. Why? Because it's age bias. Anyways, who decides what is good and evil again? If my mother was killed, of coursed it would be \"bad\" for me because it does not benefit me.

The theory of \"the birth from the asses\" is quite old. Things might not be very good everywhere but to return to the society of animals wouldn't help. In order for evolution to take place we should walk through the wrong paths and learn from our mistakes. With your kind of philosophy we should start again, well, where do you thing we will end? We will end at exactly the same result. We can't built an Utopia, these theories have failed in the past. Coruption and ambition will allways be present, and will affect everything. [/b]

It would be started from the beginning with a clean slate. We remember the mistakes of the past and try to steer clear of them. There are too many political strongmen now to cause anything good. If they rule, we'll end up in world war anyways, so it's only an eventuality.

C) That I do know what my philosophy means, and I am able to judge myself. But you just don't like the thought of Nihilism.

Killing is not wrong, rape is not wrong, nothing is wrong or right, it's just what it is. I would kill if I had to, and I have very much self-respect thank you very much. Don't assume what I am.

It just depends how you look at it, rape will only cause pain to many people and seriously it doesnt make you feel better one bit, it wouldnt make me feel better, or ay other decent human being, and if you like to rape somebody that tells alot about what kind of person you are.

"saves someone or helps someone is sacrificing a part of themselves"

Sacrificing yourself is something diffirent then sacrificing others who did not ask to be sacrified for the cause. I value the life of those I care for above my own(especially my sweetie ^_^). But I would never sarcrifice somebody else, it rather die myself then.

It just depends how you look at it, rape will only cause pain to many people and seriously it doesnt make you feel better one bit, it wouldnt make me feel better, or ay other decent human being, and if you like to rape somebody that tells alot about what kind of person you are.
[/b]

So are you agreeing that right and wrong is subjective? If it just depends on how you look at it, well, people look at things differently. So I guess we're just at a difference of views.

Sacrificing yourself is something diffirent then sacrificing others who did not ask to be sacrified for the cause. I value the life of those I care for above my own(especially my sweetie ^_^). But I would never sarcrifice somebody else, it rather die myself then.[/b]

Once again, difference of views. Nothing would make me want to die unless it was worth saving, for instance, if I had a child. Or a lover. I would sacrifice another if it was essential that I do so. For instance, war. Another instance, if I was going to be murdered, buglarized, or raped.

I suppose it does depend on a diffirence of views..I gues I wil never agree with this kind of theories because I am to soft, I admit that. But in my eyes it just simply wrong..for instance I woulnt not sacrifice another if I was about to murdered,raped etc and had to option to sarcrifice somebody else.

But, I respect the way you are defending your philosophy and theories( I dont mean you created them but you know what I mean). You at least stay true to your philosofy. Even if I think this theories are just unacceptable and wrong..you at least know what your saying and doing.

Lets stop arguing for now..let others make some comment I know i will never agree with you and vice versa. We are two very diffirent persons, but I know I cant change your mind of course, and you cant change mine. Im suppose im glad not many people support this philosopy, but its nice you found your thing(even if it is wrong in MY EYES).

Good and evil might be subjective..therefor id rather say light and darkness..certain values belong to light(compassion,care,love etc) some alues belong to darkness(arrogance,greed,hatred etc) . Thus it is, I know you are an atheist, but even an atheist can make diffirence between light and dark..

Nice discussion though....just know my personality..im a occult,religous,over compassionate gayish(yes I admit i act gay sometimes) softy..thats what I am..not changing that ^_^ go light side ^_^

EDIT: dont forget happy, optimistic and hyper active(sometimes) ^_^

Yeah, that's what you get when you get into philosophy. You can argue and argue and argue but no ideas change hands.

Go grey matter! Pun intended.

I am 14 years old, yet, if I told you if I was 18, you would take me much more seriously.[/b]

I dont mean that i dont take you seriously but I knew you were young. I think its good that you have a philosophy at an early age but i also know from my experience that at these age you like to dispute on everything. Maybe my judgement is wrong. It looks to me that you are an inteligent person and i'm quite sure that your views will change with time.
You have to know that in life most of the time you take what you give.

It would be started from the beginning with a clean slate. We remember the mistakes of the past and try to steer clear of them. There are too many political strongmen now to cause anything good. If they rule, we'll end up in world war anyways, so it's only an eventuality.[/b]

I talled you before about why a Utopia isn't possible. Even if we start again you have to admit that its imposible for all the people to be in the same side. The result of that, especially after such a destruction will be thousands of civil wars. With the destruction of laws there will be total anarchy without a hope for evolution.

You have to know human psychology to know WHY we have the distinction \"Good and evil\". Evil is bad for the society and thus something set as bad. Killing is not wrong, rape is not wrong, nothing is wrong or right, it's just what it is. I would kill if I had to, and I have very much self-respect thank you very much. Don't assume what I am.[/b]

Good and Evil were a matter of subjectivity but evolution and capability of thinking let us make the distinction. If we start thinking like that again, we will return to the thinking model of animals where insticts are above our thinking capability.

C) That I do know what my philosophy means, and I am able to judge myself. But you just don't like the thought of Nihilism.[/b]

It's not that I dont like the thought of Nihilism is that I think its another Utopia. We have learned from the past and even if you believe your philosophy with all your heart, you have to know that there isn't a posibility under any circumstancies not only to succeed but even to be tested

It's not aiming for Utopia. It's just that this society is so bad that a new one is needed.

If you're taking it from the aspect of nature and evolution, why is it that people commit mass suicide and torture themselves internally, yet it has no benefit? Why do people kill if there's no reason to? It's the anomie, it's the society of decadence.

Well i think you are seeing things too pesimistic. Things aren't that bad. Yes its true that some things are going wrong but you'll see that changes are about to happen....
I won't take this further...

It was nice talking to you, I'm allways interested in hearing other perspectives

Not going wrong, yes, maybe in some places, like in your cozy little house inside your cozy little neighborhood. But what about the millions of starving peoples around the globe because of ideological despotic rulers!?

Have you ever wondered what we don't know about the world?

[quote]

NO, it would not mean \"killing sprees, rape all around\" because this kind of stuff gets you killed, dumb ass.

chill out dude. you need to accept that people can believe other things. you can defend your beliefs but calling someone else a dumb ass just makes you look like the later.

You're right, I just get mad when people don't see what I'm saying.

interesting dispute.

Berserk, you seem like a very intelligent boy, but it looks like you need to think some things through before calling someone an 'idiot' just because they think differently than you.

As I said in response to Adidas, that's just my illogical mind coming out, emotion. Don't think just because I called him an idiot that my whole debate meant nothing though.

i agree with a lot you have to say, but not all. society is in decay, and we need a change... but humans aren't so perfect. greed is inevitable. you can say that greed is a "good" trait, and it is. to the individual... not to the society... in my eyes greed has no place in any society better than this one.

Actually, Nihilism rejects a lot of materialism in what is referred to "Existential Nihilism". This is one of the more philosophical aspects of it.

It's just basically that nothing can be proven 100% and nothing materialistic is more important than your own being.

Remember Fight Club?