Lots of quantum physics supporters believe that observation plays a vital role in the nature of reality itself, including people in this thread. |
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This is the problem that a lot of people have with quantum mechanics and it is all just a misunderstanding. The different interpretations treat this issue differently, but none of them say that the universe exists because humans observe it. Some say that the quantum wave form collapses in the presence of consciousness but don't say anything about the nature of consciousness. Some say that objectively nothing really changes but a conscious observer "chooses" which of many different parallel universes to experience through the observation. Some say that there is no change in the physical system but the way in which humans can perceive the system is defined at the point of observation. The only way that you could interpret the results of quantum mechanics to be dependent on humans is to say that it proves that the way in which humans are capable of perceiving the universe is dependent on human observations, which is not a very magical statement to make at all. |
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Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
Lots of quantum physics supporters believe that observation plays a vital role in the nature of reality itself, including people in this thread. |
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How do you know you are not dreaming right now?
Observation is a vague word that doesn't necessarily mean human observation. Gravity fulfills the role of observation in quantum systems bigger than an atom or two. What most people don't realize is that observation only affects systems that are small enough that they aren't being affected by anything else. The only real correlation that could be drawn between the act of conscious observation and quantum systems is that conscious observation seems to affect the system in the same way as the fundamental forces of nature, which is one of the many reasons why I personally believe consciousness to be a fundamental constituent of reality, much like electro-weak forces, strong nuclear forces and gravity. |
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Last edited by Xaqaria; 03-28-2010 at 04:51 AM.
Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
There were a few things to consider that I've already gone over, in regards to human perception and observation. Let me break it down: |
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Last edited by really; 03-28-2010 at 01:08 PM.
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Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
Lol. Consciousness is not a physical force or inherent property of the universe as some people here put it. It's a frigging cognitive function of the brain, on a MUCH, MUCH more macroscopic level. Robots can theoretically be programmed to have consciousness - it just takes some heavy work. |
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Saying quantum physics explains cognitive processes is just like saying geology explains jurisprudence.
You are the one equating humans and consciousness, not me. I don't know if really is or not, but I doubt it. If it is so funny that people are saying this, then you can probably back yourself up with some scientific or philosophical arguments about the nature of consciousness, can't you? I know I already posted one that explained it in the way that I am describing it; did you read it? |
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Last edited by Xaqaria; 03-28-2010 at 02:44 PM.
Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
It's a mystery in the sense that nobody is able to explain why it exists. It is easy to conceive of a being capable of acting intelligently which doesn't have conciousness (a philosophical zombie). Therefore an explanation is needed. The holism of the phenomenon is for all intents and purposes paradoxical due to the Ship of Theseus arguments you can apply. |
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That's interesting. Obviously you are not somebody I take much issue with on the topic. |
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How do you know you are not dreaming right now?
LMAO. |
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Saying quantum physics explains cognitive processes is just like saying geology explains jurisprudence.
I will detail my response when I have more time. But as for now, Kromoh, perhaps you should actually back up your claims yourself. So far you just seem to be carrying on and laughing at others. Give us a break and at least elaborate. |
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The Ultimate Lucid Mp3 Thread Link
Mp3 track available here (02/2015): http://www27.zippyshare.com/v/36261038/file.html
If you have a sense of caring for others, you will manifest a kind of inner strength in spite of your own difficulties and problems. With this strength, your own problems will seem less significant and bothersome to you. By going beyond your own problems and taking care of others, you gain inner strength, self-confidence, courage, and a greater sense of calm.Dalai Lama
Saying quantum physics explains cognitive processes is just like saying geology explains jurisprudence.
So why don't you enlighten us proles with your in-depth knowledge of the source of consciousness? While you're at it, you should point us in the direction of your Nobel winning dissertation on the subject, as since no one else on the planet has been able to explain the the reason for the existence of the phenomenon, you must have managed to publish your amazing insights. Come on Genius, show us what you've got. |
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Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscio...fic_approaches |
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Last edited by Kromoh; 03-28-2010 at 11:01 PM.
Saying quantum physics explains cognitive processes is just like saying geology explains jurisprudence.
Oh, Kromoh. I'm disappointed in you. Wikipedia is hardly a groundbreaking thesis. Is that the best effort you can muster? |
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Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
The basic question which needs to be answered is this: why are we not philosophical zombies? |
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It's as much as I need to enlighten you. I thought you'd understand that, if you bring concepts too complex to a person, they won't understand it. |
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Saying quantum physics explains cognitive processes is just like saying geology explains jurisprudence.
Please stop dismissing my question. |
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Last edited by Kromoh; 03-29-2010 at 03:04 AM.
Saying quantum physics explains cognitive processes is just like saying geology explains jurisprudence.
Since you are obviously far more intelligent than me, why don't you just explain to me how exactly neuroscience explains the existence of consciousness. Make sure you use simple language so we can all understand. You could start by answering Xei's question; Why are we not philosophical zombies? |
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Last edited by Xaqaria; 03-29-2010 at 03:19 AM.
Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
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The truth is there isn't consciousness in the way you idealize. There is only attention. It's a cognitive function that was naturally selected throughout evolution. You'd have figured so if you had read the free and readily available wikipedia articles. |
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Last edited by Xaqaria; 03-29-2010 at 12:08 PM. Reason: personal attacks removed
Saying quantum physics explains cognitive processes is just like saying geology explains jurisprudence.
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There is also the issue of attention not requiring the experience of attention. A motion sensing camera can track a person's progress across the room. It has attention, is it experiencing attention? Is it conscious? |
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Last edited by Xaqaria; 03-29-2010 at 05:10 AM.
Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
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