Originally Posted by Xei
You're not showing that logic and God coexisting doesn't lead to a contradiction.
Not that I wish to quibble, or to derail what else you have written (to which I will also respond), but I must detain you right now, for you have just stated a weighty error which will lead me to some very relevant points.
Logic does not coexist with God. If anything coexists with God, then he is not my God. My God is the fountainhead of logic - indeed, He is LOGIC ITSELF.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." - John 1:1, KJV
Word = logos
This Biblical doctrine, and this Biblical doctrine alone, portrays the only possible God that can account for logic. Whatever logic is, it must be prior to the world we live in.
It cannot be explained in terms of the world (naturalism), for we explain the world in terms of IT.
It cannot be explained as if it existed alongside the world (dualism), for then it has no clear relation to the world, unless it is part of some larger "nature" than our own nature, in which case, logic will have to be brought in from yet another outside source, ad infinitum.
The only way logic can "coexist" with the world is if it actually brought forth the world, in which case, it is prior to the world - and really, any reasonable person would call this position 'theism'.
Originally Posted by Xei
If you learn that the garage is 1 foot long, you can rule out the car being in that garage, because 1 is less than 10.
Well, of course. But your version of the scenario is now useless as an analogy, for the car is intended to represent logic. The car fails as a picture, in that, we cannot imagine a situation in which we are unwaveringly certain that there is a car in our garage.
Yet, we are unwaveringly certain that there is such a thing as logic in existence.
And, if you or I doubt the existence of LOGIC, then this is a rather odd exercise in which we are participating right now, is it not?
Of course, I would simply have to discard the idea that my garage was one foot long. OR, I would have to assume that the laws of physics did not function as I believed they did, such that a foot could contain ten feet of space. The simple parallel is this:
Any worldview which clearly contradicts the actual being of logic must be discarded. There is rock bottom certainty of logic. Logic does, in fact, exist. This fact is one of few that never needs proving (with morality and the uniformity of nature being others). If a worldview, properly drawn to its logical conclusion, says that it does not, then it is – as Lewis said - “ utterly out of court”.
Originally Posted by Xei
only that one particular contradiction doesn't exist. You may fail to notice, for instance, that your garage is only 4 feet high.
To answer you rather unimpressively: so?
To show that there is a contradiction between other worldviews and logic, where such a contradiction does not exist in relation to God, is to adequately debunk those worldviews, and to elevate God as a logical alternative.
To pull him down, you will have to find such a contradiction.
Originally Posted by Universal Mind
Noogah, you clam that I misrepresented your argument. I don't think I did. So, sum up it up for me. Just type premises and conclusion in syllogistic form.
I began with this:
God is the only reasonable explanation of logic, morality, and uniformity in nature.
Logic, morality, and uniformity in nature exist.
Therefore God exists.
Since everybody is on board with the minor premise, we began to debate the major one. And thus, I have been waging the following argument in support of the first:
If God exists, he certainly can account for logic, morality, and uniformity of nature
There is not another worldview that can account for logic, morality, and the uniformity of nature
From this, you can either conclude with the first premise of the earlier argument, or you can just save time and end with: Therefore, God exists.
I always feel a little odd about “arguing for the existence of God”. God is the only reason you and I can argue in the first place. Not only because He created us, but because He is the foundation of REASON.
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