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    Thread: I'm back from the dead.

    1. #1
      Dreamah in ReHaB AirRick101's Avatar
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      I'm back from the dead.

      You're either offended or amused that I just compared myself to the resurrected Jesus, but here goes:

      During my entire posting career here at DV, I've always been most attracted to the discussion of religion/nature of reality/truth, before there even was a separate forum section for it. Despite growing up in a Christian environment for the early years of my life, I think I've never really believed that things like miracles happened. I said I did in order to appease my elders, but I didn't.

      I like to consume videos that make me think every now and again, and decided that it's been a while since I watched an Elliot Hulse video to gain some wisdom in addition to any nutritional or fitness advice I might make use of.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4veai0ymehU

      and then 3/4's of the way through the video, I thought to myself, "Religion already has what science is trying to discover - an answer, " and it may or may not be the right answer. After all, there's thousands of such answers if you acknowledge all the religions that have ever been in existence. We even have own personals religions - codes of conduct unique to ourselves outside of society.

      so my point of this, is there a unifying theory or belief about life? do theory and belief have to be mutually exclusive?

      I only mean to start a discussion with raw as well as thought-out responses, and sample this forum collectively in the members who find this sort of subject on their minds.
      naturals are what we call people who did all the right things accidentally

    2. #2
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      A theory of life may exist, but we haven't found it yet. I think there's to many different beliefs, many of which are mutually exclusive (what would happen if a monotheistic God met a whole pantheon?) for there to be a unifying one, especially since we can't, as of yet, prove one of the other. I don't believe theory and belief are mutually exclusive, but they're certainly different things. Its all well and good knowing the hows, but do we know the whys? As you say, belief provides an answer, even if its not the answer.

      Personally, I'm an atheist and a pretty scientifically minded one at that, so I don't have any beliefs involving Gods, spirits, souls or the like. Life, to me, is a potentially rare phenomenon, not just in terms of a self-replicating organism, but also in the multitude of forms it exists in. When you add in sentience, sapience and the vast amount of unique individual instances (Its a hell of a thing to contemplate the likelihood of your own existence) and we get one of the few things I'm willing to call a miracle.
      The idea of being created by a God or having reincarnation always cheapened the idea in my mind. Doesn't matter if we die there's an eternal afterlife or we're coming back anyway or we have a vast amount of reserves floating in some aether. It just seemed like if we really buggered up, there wasn't much of a punishment, as opposed to a Godless universe, where it seems like there's more of a reason to preserve life and make it a happy as possible for everyone. I'm kind of digressing now, though, so, I'll stop here.
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    3. #3
      Dreamah in ReHaB AirRick101's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by splodeymissile View Post
      A theory of life may exist, but we haven't found it yet. I think there's to many different beliefs, many of which are mutually exclusive (what would happen if a monotheistic God met a whole pantheon?) for there to be a unifying one, especially since we can't, as of yet, prove one of the other. I don't believe theory and belief are mutually exclusive, but they're certainly different things. Its all well and good knowing the hows, but do we know the whys? As you say, belief provides an answer, even if its not the answer.

      Personally, I'm an atheist and a pretty scientifically minded one at that, so I don't have any beliefs involving Gods, spirits, souls or the like. Life, to me, is a potentially rare phenomenon, not just in terms of a self-replicating organism, but also in the multitude of forms it exists in. When you add in sentience, sapience and the vast amount of unique individual instances (Its a hell of a thing to contemplate the likelihood of your own existence) and we get one of the few things I'm willing to call a miracle.
      The idea of being created by a God or having reincarnation always cheapened the idea in my mind. Doesn't matter if we die there's an eternal afterlife or we're coming back anyway or we have a vast amount of reserves floating in some aether. It just seemed like if we really buggered up, there wasn't much of a punishment, as opposed to a Godless universe, where it seems like there's more of a reason to preserve life and make it a happy as possible for everyone. I'm kind of digressing now, though, so, I'll stop here.
      You say you're atheist, but you also said that we can't prove any one idea or belief. Shouldn't this make you Agnostic? I personally feel that being Agnostic is fair, because depending on your definition of an atheist (a firm belief that there is no God as opposed to suspending belief in a God due to lack of evidence), that should be the case.

      I grew up pretty Christian, but certain things have been proving to lack consistency for me, such as the laws of physics regarding certain New Testament stories, such as Jesus's birth and ascension. If the Virgin Mary gave birth to him, then what was Jesus's DNA like? What was his genetic make-up of X and Y chromosomes? Did the Holy Spirit that impregnate her have human DNA, or at least DNA compatible with human DNA (I'm getting hot now thinking about mating with hot aliens). And regarding Jesus' ascension, at what point did his body just de-materialize? Did he physically just ascend indefinitely? The opening line from this guy's take on it made me literally laugh out loud The Ascension: Did Jesus Pass Saturn on His Way Up? | John G. Stackhouse, Jr.

      I'm skeptical of the traditional Buddhist take on reincarnation, though I wouldn't rule it out if you assume that because everything is energy, everything is potentially God <-Pantheism.

      In the shadow of the Big Bang Theory, there is still that original factor that didn't require anything else to spark the explosion of a point smaller than an atom into the observable universe we study today. Maybe a handful of people will never acknowledge that as God. After all, the definition of God has been so inconsistent across generations and ethnicities, that one must tread carefully when discussing it openly, which I am hoping that I am doing successfully.

      I do think that the personal God from the Bible is the way He is because we projected our human tendencies onto that character, but the impersonal God that governs the laws of the universe and keeps it expanding is very real sometimes.

      I think the capacity to believe in the personal God from the Bible will always be a part of me, but I do very much have an unbelieving side that balances that out.
      naturals are what we call people who did all the right things accidentally

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      If you don't actively believe there is a god then you are an atheist. So if you don't think there is evidence either way you are still an atheist. Atheists are not people with a firm belief there is no god, but anyone who doesn't think there is one. If your not a theist then your automatically an atheist.

      Honestly, I don't think you will keep believing in a god forever. A lot of people are like you when they are raised religious. They find all the proof showing that the god from the bible is made up and they stop believing that silliness. However, thoughts about some vague god living out there is some form or another kind of lingers in their mind. They don't want to give up on the idea of god because they are so used to it. It is hard to just drop those things you were raised with even though you know it isn't true. Though as time goes on you slowly deattach yourself from the idea and eventually you drop it altogether. Some times it takes people years to get to that point but it usually happens with time.

      If god is just some natural phenomenon them it isn't a god at all. It would be silly to say something like gravity is god, even if it controls things across the entire universe. Though they say what keeps the world expanding is dark matter. So is god just dark matter? If so then it is silly to call such thing god. It would be like calling a black hole god. It makes no sense to describe physical objects and natural phenomenon as gods.

    5. #5
      Consciousness in the Void Universal Mind's Avatar
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      * you're

      Oh, hello again, AirRick! Welcome back. A few of us from ancient times are still posting here.
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      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      God cannot destroy himself because He is Omnipotent.


    6. #6
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      Correct me if I'm wrong, Alric, but isn't it dark energy that keeps things expanding. In lighter news, I've just been reminded of the big rip scenario.

      Anyways, it is the absence of proof that causes my disbelief. Typically, whenever I bring up God or anything else relating to it, I'm speaking in hypothetical terms. I don't believe there is one, but I'm willing to entertain the possibility in debates and the like. Personally, I too was raised in a Christian household and went to a Catholic school. Despite the preaching, neither had much of an impact on me and I actually forgot about the concept of God when I went to a nonreligious secondary school until my third year, when religious studies became compulsory. After finally having a read of the Bible, I came to the conclusion that there isn't a God and even if there was, he's probably nothing like his portrayal in the various religious books.

      On the subject of the big bang, while I'm hardly learned on high level physics and metaphysics, I do recall something along the lines of eleventh dimensional branes interacting and causing the universe. Its probably just begging the question, though. I really don't see any reason for a God to be necessary and, as I said before, I think the universe is far more beautiful without a hand to design it.
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    7. #7
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      I am an open-minded Christian.

      I believe we are all like the blind men who encounter an elephant. One blind man grabs the trunk and insists the elephant is long and moves like a serpent. Another grabs a leg and says the elephant is more like a tree trunk. Another grabs the tail etc

      I think various religions and science are like that. We all encounter different parts of the truth in different ways. We think that all our beliefs are contradictory and bicker with oneanother as to who is right. I think none of us have the full picture. No one is entirely right but there are pieces of truth to be found in science and religions (different ones).

      You say that monotheism and polytheism cannot both be right. But is the number of God or gods what truly matters the most? I believe in a God who is not petty. And could two very different beliefs both have some correct ideas? I think so.

      This is why is am tolerant of other's beliefs, including atheism, because I know that not everything I believe is correct since I do not have the full picture, and I believe I can learn from others, and the more their beliefs differ from mine, the more likely that they have some understanding that I do not have yet but could benefit from learning.
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      You may say I'm a dreamer.
      But I'm not the only one
      - John Lennon

    8. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by splodeymissile View Post
      Correct me if I'm wrong, Alric, but isn't it dark energy that keeps things expanding. In lighter news, I've just been reminded of the big rip scenario.
      Yeah that is what I meant, just misspoke. Though my point still stands. Calling things like that God seems pretty silly.

    9. #9
      Dreamah in ReHaB AirRick101's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Alric View Post
      If you don't actively believe there is a god then you are an atheist. So if you don't think there is evidence either way you are still an atheist. Atheists are not people with a firm belief there is no god, but anyone who doesn't think there is one. If your not a theist then your automatically an atheist.

      Honestly, I don't think you will keep believing in a god forever. A lot of people are like you when they are raised religious. They find all the proof showing that the god from the bible is made up and they stop believing that silliness. However, thoughts about some vague god living out there is some form or another kind of lingers in their mind. They don't want to give up on the idea of god because they are so used to it. It is hard to just drop those things you were raised with even though you know it isn't true. Though as time goes on you slowly deattach yourself from the idea and eventually you drop it altogether. Some times it takes people years to get to that point but it usually happens with time.

      If god is just some natural phenomenon them it isn't a god at all. It would be silly to say something like gravity is god, even if it controls things across the entire universe. Though they say what keeps the world expanding is dark matter. So is god just dark matter? If so then it is silly to call such thing god. It would be like calling a black hole god. It makes no sense to describe physical objects and natural phenomenon as gods.
      Who says I call natural phenomena God?

      God is all observable natural phenomenon, according to pantheism.

      I thought I mentioned that I've always had the seed of disbelief within me in the face of it all.
      Last edited by AirRick101; 03-18-2014 at 04:53 AM.
      naturals are what we call people who did all the right things accidentally

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      You mentioned that some people think the 'spark' that started the universe might be god. What I am saying is that if that is just a natural phenomenon then there is no reason anyone would call it god. Or that stuff that holds the universe together is god. All those are just natural things and shouldn't really be called god. So my point was, if personal gods are just man made things, which can be proven, and other vague concepts of gods are just natural phenomenon, then there really isn't any reason to believe in any sort of god.

      When people bring up vague concepts of what god might be outside of their religion, it is just an attempt to hold onto god even though the idea no longer makes sense.

    11. #11
      Dreamah in ReHaB AirRick101's Avatar
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      Consider the big bang, before the explosion, when all the universe was condensed at a single point smaller than an atom. What was going on there and then, and for how long?
      Last edited by AirRick101; 03-18-2014 at 04:53 AM.
      naturals are what we call people who did all the right things accidentally

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