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[Nirvana Starseed]

[Leo Volont]

Nirvana, I did not think you were the Revelation of John kind of guy. Afterall, the Book starts by addressing a rather limited 7 Churches of Asia Minor, of which John was functioning as Bishop. This indicates that the Book was not to have Universal but only local significance. He was writing for what we would now recognize as the land mass of modern Turkey. Then we can examine the subsequent History of this area and find that the Roman Campaigns of 70 to 72 A.D and then those a generation later were sufficient to destory the Messianic Churches in the Area. Indeed, today we have no Messianic Churchs. The Success of the Churches of Paul testify to the elimination of the Actual Messianic Churches of Christ and His True Apostles. This was the End which John was speaking about. It came. It went. The Book of Revelation is a closed document. He had been right about these events soon coming to pass. And you, Nirvana, should be smart enough to have figured all of this out. I thought protestants were the only 'Faithfuls' able to successfully suspend the functions of their higher thinking sufficiently to go much into detail about Revelation without it occurring to them that they are wasting their time rather elaborately. There is one useful verse in Revelation. Rev 2:2 or 2:3 in which John congratulates the Church of Ephesus for having rejected some certain False Apostle. We can compare this to Paul's statement in his Letter to Timothy in which he complains of having been thrown out of Ephesus. This gives us direct evidence that Paul was considered by the True Messianic Apostles as being a Pretender, a False and Self Proclaimed Apostle. It clearly separates the Gentile Churches of Paul away from what must have been the Only True Churches of Christ. And regarding these Only True Churches, the Judgement came and while many in the area fell under the Curse of Christ's Judgment, those of the True Messianic Churches received their Reward and were lifted up. But in either case, that was the end of it. The next 2000 years would have nothing to do with that Finished Dispensation. The Book of Revelation chronicles the End to the Abrahamic Dispensation. The Promise to the Jews is resolved, not very favorably it seems since the Contract had been broken with the Messiah having been rejected. But the Messiah comes with Judgment and so ends that entire Dispensation. Book closed. But what followed? We now live in the Age of Mary. Over the last 2000 years the great bulk of Religious Revelation has centered around Visions of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and in the other Higher Religions there has been a preponderance of Goddess Visions or Visions of Great Female Oracles, which are in substance Marian.

[Nirvana Starseed]

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Nirvana Starseed Questions: 1) What did God look like? 2) What is the meaning of the rainbow? 3) Who are the 24 Elders? Do you think they are all men? What is the meaning of the crowns of Gold? 1. God is Light. 2. The Rainbow is Multiplicity out of the Primal Unity. 3. No, the 24 Elders are not everybody. Most people will not get past the Judgment. The 24 are only 24. Indeed, several years ago I had a dream which showed me Prophetically the Afternoon of the Day of Judgment, where the Survivors of the Judgment were Celebrating. The Field was not very crowded. And Angel took me by the arm and led me to this one long table -- 'The Table of the Saints'. He told me that it had been set for 17 -- with 9 on one side and 8 on the other, but the way circumstances worked out, 3 additional places were set on each side of the Table, for a total of 23. So, you see, the events of Heaven are often contingent of events governable by the Free Will of Men. Where God had planned for 17, six more Souls by their own activities had muscled their way into Acceptable Status. But you talk of 24. Well, if you would look at the previous posts by your guests, which you now presume to ignore (what, find dialogue difficult and prefer to sermonize) you would find that it is largely supposed by enlightened scholarship that Revelation deals with not the End of the World but with the End of an Age -- the End of the Abrahamic Dispensation. We are now dealing with the End of this most Recent Dispensation, a Dispensation which after 2000 Years has grown a Civilization (Catholic Civilization) which has ripened and now which is about ready to Die.

[Darkmatic]

Originally posted by Leo Volont+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Leo Volont)</div> 1. God is Light.[/b] Well to say God is light , i guess if there was a god would be correct , but he would not be limited to being light would he ? <!--QuoteBegin-Leo Volont 2. The Rainbow is Multiplicity out of the Primal Unity. Well from a logic point of view , if you say God is light , then this is true . Its an interesting note that the bible explains that after the supposed "great flood" which washed away all non clean things , and after the floods subsided God supposedly put a bow in the cloud to represent that he will no more create a "flood to destroy all flesh" as they say . This is the actual passage from Genesis 9:11-17 of a christian bible : [i]11: And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth. 12: And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: 13: I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. 14: And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud: 15: And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. 16: And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

[Leo Volont]

Dear Dark Magic, Every time one hints that God may have His Limitations we have all these philosophers moan and groan that Absolutes had suddenly been violated. Well, duh. These are Greek Philosophers who never cared a rat's ass about any actual Revealed Philosophy, but have only considered Theology in terms of Theoretical Abstracts. So they guess everything and know nothing. God has always had limitations. It was only the first Generation of Greek Philosophers who possited that God would be absolutely above all Limitation, and then, guess what? The Second Generation of Greek Philosophers came along who were unanimously Atheist because it was so easy to refute the First Generation of Greek Philsophers. If you want to get serious about Theology, then forget Abstract Philosophy, and consider empirical Spirituality and study the Saints of History.

[Nirvana Starseed]

[Darkmatic]

Originally posted by Leo Volont Dear Dark Magic, Every time one hints that God may have His Limitations we have all these philosophers moan and groan that Absolutes had suddenly been violated. *Well, duh. *These are Greek Philosophers who never cared a rat's ass about any actual Revealed Philosophy, but have only considered Theology in terms of Theoretical Abstracts. * So they guess everything and know nothing. God has always had limitations. *It was only the first Generation of Greek Philosophers who possited that God would be absolutely above all Limitation, and then, guess what? *The Second Generation of Greek Philosophers came along who were unanimously Atheist because it was so easy to refute the First Generation of Greek Philsophers. If you want to get serious about Theology, then forget Abstract Philosophy, and consider empirical Spirituality and study the *Saints of History. Ok , well ive never really thought about a God who was Limited in his actions . Although i dont believe in God , if i did it would make sense to me that God would have no limitations . Maybe he might some limitations , but they would pale in comparison to his power . For God to have created every thing in this universe and supposedly time and space also , then i would have to think that he had little if any limitation . Please dont think that i think i know everything about a possible God , because i dont , i just draw conclusions from what i do know . And thats the reason i dont believe in god , because from what i actually know of him , which is nothing for sure , i can only think he doesnt even exist . Anyway , back to your argument , the reason i said that he should not be limited to light was becasue i didnt quite understand what you meant by God is light . I suppose , if we were to see him all we would be seeing is light , but then you could argue that everything in the universe is simply light and nothing else .So i dont think thats how you meant it , perhaps you could elaborate on what 'God is light' means ...

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Darkmatic Ok , well ive never really thought about a God who was Limited in his actions . Although i dont believe in God , if i did it would make sense to me that God would have no limitations . Maybe he might some limitations , but they would pale in comparison to his power . For God to have created every thing in this universe and supposedly time and space also , then i would have to think that he had little if any limitation . Please dont think that i think i know everything about a possible God , because i dont , i just draw conclusions from what i do know . And thats the reason i dont believe in god , because from what i actually know of him , which is nothing for sure , i can only think he doesnt even exist . Anyway , back to your argument , the reason i said that he should not be limited to light was becasue i didnt quite understand what you meant by God is light . I suppose , if we were to see him all we would be seeing is light , but then you could argue that everything in the universe is simply light and nothing else .So i dont think thats how you meant it , perhaps you could elaborate on what 'God is light' means ... The mistake you make is to come at God by way of Mathematical Philosophy. We are conditioned to think that way because the Atheist Establishment is careful to present only that View of God, since it is so easy to refute. And, yes, even the Bishops of the Catholic Church were guilty of outsourcing Theology to the influences of Greek Philosophy, but they were warned of their mistake by one no less great or inspired than Saint Bernard who insisted God be known entirely by His Revelation and then only analyzed far enough to know that Divinity is Mystery. Then, even among the Thinkers of Theology, we have some silly thoughts. Think about it... if Time is Eternal, then there IS NO BEGINNING. Eternity is just that... Eternity... and Eternity would be open ended on both ends, no? The Hindus see it correctly. They don't fuss about any Beginning because there could never be a Beginning. They talk of a Cyclic Universe that had gone one forever. God does not fill the Role of Creator... the Universe IS and it always WAS. Why possit an unnecessary Creator. If one says that the Universe had to come from somewhere and so God is necessary as Creator, then it only pushes back the same question to Who created God. If something had to have already existed in the Beginning, then we can simply matters by saying that it was Matter which always existed. Consciousness and Life Organization, out of which God may have arisen, may well have followed after Matter and not necessarily come before it. We may well discern the Development of God and Divinity by tracing the Moral Sensibilities of Humanity and examining the History of Civilization. God, in some sense, may be some Mathematical Absolute Purity, but as Einstein once said, a God that has no Providential Relationship to Humanity is a Useless and Irrelevent God. God is only God insofar as He is Providential. Yes, the Buddhists and some Hindus have gone as far as abandoning Humanity in order to connect to a Pure God of Virtually Nothing -- Nirvana. But that was several thousand years ago. Subsequently Religions have attempted more to combine Morality and Community along with the needs to have Transcendentally Ecstatic Experiences. But going back to the original point, one who actually studies what actual Saints and Visionaries have experienced regarding God and Providence will be able to cite instance after instance of Divine Limitation and Struggle. The Philosopher and the Mathematician can guess, from within his Knowledge Vaccuum, from an Empiricism based on Zero Facts, that God has no Limitations. But the Saint, Visionary, Prophet or Oracle will see a much more complicated picture. Heck, just read the Bible and you will see it very clear and obvious that God has never had His Way. God has been successfully defied at practically every step. yes, God may have to be satisfied with some ultimate revenge upon those who have obstructed Him, but exercising Vindictive Counter-plans is hardly the Resort to which an Omnipotent God would have chosen as His Plan A. So, no, God is NOT Omnipotent. God is Struggling against Real Obstacles and Difficulties, just as we do. Now, it is nice that Nirvanastarseed can be optimistic, but if suddenly everything were to go right for God, it would be the First Time. It may take an Eternity for God to ever achieve His Perfection, and as I said before, Eternity will never happen. We can only hope that we can make things better.

[Demerzel]

The meaning of a rainbow is that a pure white light glow has been refracted in 7 different directions, and reflecting from a central point in the sky creates an arc effect.. as faras I know.

[InTheMoment]

Originally posted by Techboy The meaning of a rainbow is that a pure white light glow has been refracted in 7 different directions, and reflecting from a central point in the sky creates an arc effect.. as faras I know. And don't forget that they also cause Skittles too fall from the sky.

[Demerzel]

And gold pots, which are generated by the yellow and orange bouncing and total internal reflection at a rate of 512Hz where the bubble at the end representing God is .... blah

[Nirvana Starseed]

The suggested guidelines are as follows: 1) Constructive input 2) No input Thank you for your co-operation

[InTheMoment]

Originally posted by Nirvana Starseed Thank you for your co-operation Ok, Robocop.

[Nirvana Starseed]

yeah inthemoment, that was the joke. I'm re-moving this threads contents.

[kimpossible]

I think the real content remained, despite your best efforts to the contrary.

[Demerzel]

Originally posted by Techboy The meaning of a rainbow is that a pure white light glow has been refracted in 7 different directions, and reflecting from a central point in the sky creates an arc effect.. as faras I know. Guess what, that comes under constructive and is also true, dipshit.

[Ex Nine]

God is made of photons?

[InTheMoment]

Originally posted by Ex Nine God is made of photons? and laytex

[Ex Nine]

Glowing laytex? *scrambles madly for a patent application*

[ptahsokar]

Originally posted by Ex Nine Glowing laytex? *scrambles madly for a patent application* Yeah. I can see it now. A big drop in AIDS-related deaths and a wasting surge in penis cancer. Also, KP has to get rid of that disclaimer thing on her posts. Gives the impression she's saying more than she actually does. I also say we implement a rule called "X9's Law": posts with less real content in them than a typical X9 post will be rejected server-side. Not to be confused with "Ex Nine's Law" which is: posts funnier than a typical Ex Nine post will cause the server to crash (causing even silicon itself to convulse in debilitating laughter).