A rant of sorts.

[Tsen]

I'm finding a growing list of things that people do that really, really tick me off. Topping the list is ignorance, but it's grown in volume and sheer offensiveness to the point where I must write it all down and get it out in the open before I cut somebody's head off. Therefore, I'm typing this list of things that annoy me, mostly about religious zealots, to relieve a significant build-up of personal stress. #1. As I mentioned, IGNORANCE tops the list. I'm sure several people have seen editorials, heard news reports or TV interviews or heard it from a significantly loud individual they've met about how evolution is totally false because "I don't want to believe that I came from an ape!" or "If evolution was true, we'd grow turn signals out our ears!" and my personal favorite, "Evolution can't be true or we'd all look like characters from Star Wars!". All of this blatantly portrays the level of misinformation and general ignorance prevalent in our society today. Now, we can't see the exact course life has taken throughout all ancient history, so we can't truly rule out other possibilities. Yes, we might not have evolved from single-celled organisms. Still, that MIGHT is only a MIGHT, not a DEFINITELY. People seem to forget that we ARE given the ability, and therefore the responsibility, to infer things from evidence given to us. A detective at the scene of a crime doesn't look at bloody handprints on the wall and a knife with fingerprints clearly evident on the hilt, then promptly stand up and proclaim, "Obviously, a dragon burst through the window and ate this person!" When things line up a certain way, when there is a clear line of evidence, it is logical to conclude that the correct solution will go in line with the evidence, and not against the evidence. Fingerprints and a bloody knife don't imply a dragon. Further than that, besides when people jump to conclusions when presented with clear and concise evidence, they also presume to have immense knowledge on subjects they've never studied. The quotes above were all things I've heard from real people in my life. The look-like-Star-Wars one was from my own father. Needless to say, all of those quotes are wrong. Darwinism doesn't suggest that we'll grow turn signals out our ears (that would be Lamarckism) or that we'll look like Star Wars characters (Humans are not isolated from each other, preventing multiple new species arising from us). Not wanting to be related to an ape has nothing to do with the issue at hand at all! It's just based on what somebody WANTS to believe, and not on what's really happened. Thus, the first thing I could ever suggest to somebody seeking self-improvement would be to overcome ignorance. Research before forming your opinion on an issue. #2. ASSUMPTIONS, especially those based on age, race, gender, etc. Just today, my aunt told me that, while I was an atheist now, I wouldn't be all my life. Continuing, she said that I hadn't faced any challenges or near death experiences, so I'd definitely reconsider my position later in life when I did face those challenges. The most offensive thing she said was that I was just in the normal teenage rebellion phase, and I'd grow up soon. That's the sort of assumption that bothers me the most. I didn't mind so much when she was just saying that I still hadn't experienced everything, so I'd reconsider my opinion later as I experienced more. I understand that. But I also know that reconsidering my opinion doesn't mean instantly grabbing hold of religion and embracing God like a man who can't swim in a shipwreck clinging to a floating barrel. I know that I'll experience more, but for the moment I have no choice but to base my opinion on what I've experienced so far, and on what I've heard of other people's experiences. Still, the line wasn't crossed until she mentioned, "You're just in that teenage rebellion stage. You'll grow out of it." THAT was an assumption, and one of the worst sort. I by NO means became an atheist to rebel against anything, especially not my parents. She's just assuming that's why I did what I did. I tried to explain to her why I really left the church, and how it had absolutely nothing to do with rebellion (I actually hesitated for months and months before leaving the church because I didn't want to offend anyone or lose standing in anybody's eyes, most of all my parent's.). I used an example she'd used earlier, with a slight twist, to point out her error. "You mentioned being on an airplane at 35,000 feet when it hit turbulence. You mentioned how at that moment, you prayed to God harder than you ever had before. Well, say that it wasn't just turbulence. Say that the engines, visible through the windows, are clearly spouting flames and the airplane is in a steep dive. There's a Hindu man next to you, and he starts praying aloud to Shiva" (This example is slightly incorrect, a Hindu wouldn't pray to Shiva since Shiva is a God of vengeance, not mercy, but I couldn't remember any other Hindu god's names at that moment). "Would you start praying to Shiva as well, or would you start praying to your Christian God? You'd pray to the Christian God, because to pray to the Hindu God would be against your instinct as well as your beliefs. The man next to you wouldn't pray to a Christian God for the same reason." She told me all about how I was wrong, and I'd come crawling back to God someday when the shit hit the fan. It's simply offensive to have somebody assume your actions for you, and to discount your past actions, or to deny that you could actually have thought things out, possibly more than they ever have. Whether it's because of how old you are, what race you are, what gender you are, it doesn't matter at all. I can't remember a single time I've been more angry at my parents than when my dad told me not to trust any Japanese people because they were inherently a violent, untrustworthy and conspiring race. It's for that reason I'm considering changing my name permanently later on to separate myself fully from that mentality, in name as well as in deed. #3. SPEAKING ILL about somebody clearly within earshot of you. Again, this traces back to my parents. I have a bedroom directly above theirs. Sound carries quite well between the rooms. It's thin enough that you can hear me typing on my computer upstairs in the basement. My parents know this. They used to use my bedroom as their own, before the master bedroom in the basement was completed, and they could always hear precisely what was going on in the basement below them. My brother stayed in the basement for a few years while it was still unfinished, and my parents had quite a bit of experience with just how well sound carries. So it bothers me when they talk, in elevated voices, about how unfortunate it is that I'm an utter failure at life. They talk about how I'll never stand a chance in the real world because I have no work ethic. They talk about how they're so ashamed that their own son could doubt the word of god. All of this is, as they know, well within my earshot. They even do it when I'm in my room with the door open and they're just down the hall in the kitchen. More than once, they've out and said those sort of things to each other while in the same room as me, as if I just didn't exist. Worse is when I hear them talk about my brother or sister the same way, and I know that my brother or sister can hear them too. It's just not right. That should be all of my ranting for now, but don't count on it. I'm really pissed off now, and I might need to blow some more steam off again soon.

[Barbizzle]

Then, I am in total agreement with you. the same things piss me off, but i fortuantly don't have to deal with it that often. Just be glad your more aware of the world then your ignorant parents are. One day you can move out and never look back. I think i would be sickened to my stomach if my parents were that ignorant and were disappointed in my lack of faith. I feel for you.

[Leo Volont]

With all my experience in life, allow me this one observation: when little baby is crying, little baby must need his nap.

[Neruo]

Well you can't blame christians for hating/fearing atheist, since they/we treathen to destroy them in a way ^_____^

[Burns]

This goes back to the comment I made in another discussion about not believing everything your parents say and having a mind of your own. (About how a member's parents killed kittens, so it must be ok ) I never took anything my parents said for granted and this is a prime example why. Parents can be nutjobs, too - so you can't take everything they say as golden just because they're your parents. Sorry you're having a hard time, but it's nice to be able to vent now and then (I do the same thing). It's very frustrating to hear them say you're on the wrong path and will eventually come crawling back to God (which is an ignorant load of crap, by the way). Try to ignore it - I know it's easier said than done, but that's about all you can do at this point. Arguing with them is only going to make it worse. Also know that however much your parents say that they're disappointed in you and don't understand you, they still love you and have your best interests at heart - they're just closed-minded is all, and only want you to "go to Heaven" if something happens to you. Free free to vent anytime

[wasup]

I hate hypocrisy more than anything else... god my family does some incredibly hypocritical things... it's the worst when the situation is exactly the same except we are in switched places, and I tell them what happened "last time" and they simply say "it was a different context" or something and don't explain it...

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by Tsen I'm finding a growing list of things that people do that really, really tick me off. *Topping the list is * #1. *As I mentioned, IGNORANCE * #2. *ASSUMPTIONS, * #3. *SPEAKING ILL * That should be all of my ranting for now, but don't count on it. *I'm really pissed off now, and I might need to blow some more steam off again soon. I would have to say that, this kind of ‘limited view’ is the result of things in one’s life not going the way one wants. ‘I mean, you’re barely aware that you have a brain, and that you’re trying to frame your limited experience into that barely functioning brain.’ Mean while cursing your own limitations, and judging everyone else other than the one you should (yourself) thinking that these are every one else’s problems, when in fact they are yours and yours alone. A typical adolescence response to others behavior, when any substantial experience would in fact ‘regulate the overwhelming tendency apply your limited experiences as being everyone else’s’ i.e. ignorance’s assumptions, speaking ill, and thereby focusing your observations and on your own preconceived assertions, and not on those who have their own views of which you disagree. The Rev.

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by Barbizzle Then, I am in total agreement with you. *the same things piss me off, but i fortuantly don't have to deal with it that often. *Just be glad your more aware of the world then your ignorant parents are. *One day you can move out and never look back. *I think i would be sickened to my stomach if my parents were that ignorant and were disappointed in my lack of faith. *I feel for you. Its’ totally amazing that children still ‘Assume’ that their parents are the ignorant one’s when experience is the best teacher, and most who express these types of opinions are totally deficient of the experiences which caused their parents to have the views on life that they do. Just one little side note: The arrogance of this generation’s youth is astoundingly base and void of humility I weep for the future. The Rev.

[Burns]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1 Its’ totally amazing that children still ‘Assume’ that their parents are the ignorant one’s when experience is the best teacher, and most who express these types of opinions are totally deficient of the experiences which caused their parents to have the views on life that they do. Just one little side note: The arrogance of this generation’s youth is astoundingly base and void of humility I weep for the future. You're not doing a very good job of selling your point by degrading others. It just negates the point you're trying to make And just because someone is capable of reproducing and having children, doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. Parents can be idiots, too (and unfortunately, there are a lot of them on the loose that continue to procreate).

[Awaken4e1]

I think the point was made clearly. 'There comes a time when those who wish to be grown must act like it...'

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by Burns You're not doing a very good job of selling your point by degrading others. It just negates the point you're trying to make * And just because someone is capable of reproducing and having children, doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. Parents can be idiots, too (and unfortunately, there are a lot of them on the loose that continue to procreate). I feel I must note that there is a difference between knowledge, (which most people have) and wisdom, (which very few people have) the young are always trying to judge their parents behavior by knowledge alone, which causes a distortion of the truth, not being seasoned with wisdom. The Rev.

[Barbizzle]

I hope your not a parent just kidding

[wasup]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1 I would have to say that, this kind of ‘limited view’ is the result of things in one’s life not going the way one wants. ‘I mean, you’re barely aware that you have a brain, and that you’re trying to frame your limited experience into that barely functioning brain.’ Mean while cursing your own limitations, and judging everyone else other than the one you should (yourself) thinking that these are every one else’s problems, when in fact they are yours and yours alone. A typical adolescence response to others behavior, when any substantial experience would in fact ‘regulate the overwhelming tendency apply your limited experiences as being everyone else’s’ i.e. ignorance’s assumptions, speaking ill, and thereby focusing your observations and on your own preconceived assertions, and not on those who have their own views of which you disagree. The Rev. This is what we can an "assumption" my good friend... Originally posted by Awaken4e1 Its’ totally amazing that children still ‘Assume’ that their parents are the ignorant one’s when experience is the best teacher, and most who express these types of opinions are totally deficient of the experiences which caused their parents to have the views on life that they do. Just one little side note: The arrogance of this generation’s youth is astoundingly base and void of humility I weep for the future. The Rev. And that's ignorance... sure, sometimes parents say something from their own "wisdom" which is incorrect... my mother is not very science-savvy and she called me arrogant when I was saying something that was a scientific fact... you can't really argue morals much, because there is no set code of them... but when it comes to arguing stuff like facts, it is arrogant for a parent to call the child arrogant for saying that the parent is wrong ... Maybe this generation's youth is "arrogant" because we are comprehending and understanding things more than past generations and not willing to stick to old traditions and morals...?

[Tsen]

Thanks for all the responses, I really wasn't expecting quite that much of a reaction. Anyway, thanks Atraxis, and I fully agree. Awaken, that really was quite the assumption you made, and that's exactly what I meant by my second point. Assuming that you know my situation, and without ever meeting my parents, can completely conclude that I'm ignoring their obvious wisdom? Quite a jump there, considering you've never met me or my family.

[Draco]

Hokay, I know Tsen's parent's personally, and I think they are quite possibly the most arrogant, ignorant, racist, people i've ever met. And for the record Awaken, I'm not a child... By the way ataraxis, i agree, except isn't it kind of arrognat for anyone to call anyone else arrogant?

[wasup]

Originally posted by Draco Hokay, I know Tsen's parent's personally, and I think they are quite possibly the most arrogant, ignorant, racist, people i've ever met. And for the record Awaken, I'm not a child... By the way ataraxis, i agree, except isn't it kind of arrognat for anyone to call anyone else arrogant? Depends. It's not arrogant for me to call someone arrogant if they say something is true, but I say something on the contrary and I can back it up with evidence. However... I think it's ignorant to call someone arrogant based on differing morals and perspectives... and especially things like opinions. There's no universal code really for those types of things... besides the simple things like "please" "thank you" and "pardon me." Yeah... From what I've seen, arrogant is more used when someone says something that differs from their point of view...

[Draco]

Well said.

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by Draco Hokay, I know Tsen's parent's personally, and I think they are quite possibly the most arrogant, ignorant, racist, people i've ever met. And for the record Awaken, I'm not a child... By the way ataraxis, i agree, except isn't it kind of arrognat for anyone to call anyone else arrogant? The things of which I spoke was from the spirit of the rant, Not in a personal manner,but if the shoe fits?

[Draco]

Originally posted by Awaken4e1+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Awaken4e1)</div> Its’ totally amazing that children still ‘Assume’ that their parents are the ignorant one’s when experience is the best teacher, and most who express these types of opinions are totally deficient of the experiences which caused their parents to have the views on life that they do. Just one little side note: The arrogance of this generation’s youth is astoundingly base and void of humility I weep for the future. The Rev.[/b] Originally posted by Awaken4e1@ I feel I must note that there is a difference between knowledge, (which most people have) and wisdom, (which very few people have) the young are always trying to judge their parents behavior by knowledge alone, which causes a distortion of the truth, not being seasoned with wisdom. The Rev. <!--QuoteBegin-Awaken4e1 'There comes a time when those who wish to be grown must act like it...' The Rev. Have you ever met Tsen? Ever met his parents? Commenting on something you know little about is ignorance. Calling him childish when you don't know him is an assumption. Assuming your "wise" enough to call him childish is arrogance. Oh, and Ataraxis, I didn't mean to insult you with that arrogance calling arrogance comment, I was just wondering aloud... I'm sorry if I did.

[Awaken4e1]

Originally posted by Draco Have you ever met Tsen? Ever met his parents? Commenting on something you know little about is ignorance. Calling him childish when you don't know him is an assumption. Assuming your "wise" enough to call him childish is arrogance. . Again an.other assumption made because the base assertion of being right, and others being wrong is the sole expression and purpose of the 'rant' By no means did I call anyone by their name, nor did I use the term 'childish', there is no need to meet some to know that what they are saying is based in arrogance, therefore it is wisdom which is lacking in the understanding of my post, seeing that I clarified that my reply was not personal. The Rev.

[wasup]

Originally posted by Draco Oh, and Ataraxis, I didn't mean to insult you with that arrogance calling arrogance comment, I was just wondering aloud... I'm sorry if I did. Naw, it was a good question Any question that can merit a legitimate answer I'm okay with (but things like "why don't you believe in god" and such are kind of annoying to me).

[Draco]

Ataraxis, I know. People who ask stupid quetions and then get mad when you don't answer the way they want you to. Awaken... I KNOW you have never met Tsen's parents, THEREFORE, you shouldn't be ALLUDING to Tsen being childish. You shouldn't ASSUME that Tsen's parents are right. There's no point in debating with someone who can't believe that they could be wrong.