Paulist Protestantism Just Like Atheism, Just Worse

[Leo Volont]

Paulist Protestantism Just Like Atheism, But Worse It is often thought that I am unfair to Protestants. Even people who hate Religion can’t imagine to themselves that Protestantism could possibly be that much worse then all of the others. However, I should remind such people that they probably would not hate Religion quite so much if it were not for Protestants – their Beliefs for themselves, and their Propaganda against all the other Religions. My chief complaint against Protestantism is that it sets aside all requirements for Morality, Law and Righteousness and proclaims a universal exemption from any Judgment. ‘Salvation’ is a ‘Get Out of Hell Free’ Card. Now, considering that any Religion’s utility to its parent Civilization is that it be a Moralizing Force, then Protestantism is not only useless, but worse then useless. There are a great many people who intuit something beyond themselves – a God to whom they go for Guidance and Direction. Well, Protestantism takes this Need, this Drive, and co-opts and subverts it – telling the People that God’s latest Message is that People can Sin all they want, just as long as they Murder a Messiah once in awhile. Now, yes, yes, yes, the Catholics believe much of this Paulism too. In fact, they started it. However, if we look at the History of it, by the time Catholicism was thoroughly established in all of Europe, it had quite for a large part de-emphasized Paulism, and had become mostly Marian – a True Moral Religion. Yes, the Bishops remained Paulist, and there we have all the History of Catholic Corruption in an Episcopal Nut Shell. But the Marian Religious Orders which were most responsible for the Catholicizing of Europe, as they were the ones who were hobnobbing with the People… not the Bishops with their Coaches and Six Horses. Indeed, if we examine the Age of Saint Bernard, we will see a Civilization under the Pall of Grace of a virtual Goddess. The Icons were of an Adult Woman holding just a small baby of a Jesus. And then we would see France, the Land of a Thousand Cathedrals and all of them – EVERY SINGLE ONE – each was called an OUR LADY’S. Catholicism in its Hey Day was a Goddess Religion. Certainly, then, at the Height of Catholic Civilization, Catholicism was NOT Paulist in character. Just look at Martin Luther’s Big Complaint about Catholicism – That the Catholics had been neglecting to Teach the Salvation as Taught by Paul. There it is! Martin Luther’s Indictment against Catholicism is Catholicism’s Saving Grace. But then, since the Protestants had won the Wars of Rebellion, the Bishops have been steadily bringing back more and more of Paul until you can scarcely tell the difference. And Mary has almost been exiled. Why the Catholic Catechism speaks of Her in tones of apology and excuse. They teach it is forbidden to “Worship” her. But what good child can be so ashamed of its Mother? And the Bishops flock to Paul for they know they would otherwise roost in Hell. But still some of the Marian Religious Orders survive, and some of the Marian Prayers survive, and these things are all dedicated entirely to Mary and to an honest Morality. But they are largely without the slightest social and cultural influence. Secular Protestantism and its Business Partners – Secular Atheism and Zionism – dominate the media. Now we have Protestants preaching Greed, War, and we have those who resort to every secret corruption. When they are caught at it, they trot out the Paulist Protestant Scriptural Injunctions that the only right thing to do against Social and Political Corruption is to “forgive it like Good Christians”. (yet America imprisons more people per capita then any other Nation on Earth, demonstrating a very selective Forgiveness. The way it works is that people with Political Connections and who are wealthy enough to hire lawyers who don’t work for the Municipality… these are the ones who are Forgiven). Now, we must wonder why it is that anything that calls itself a “Religion” is so convenient for those who display absolutely no morality. What’s more, as having been something of a Spiritualist my whole adult life (and before that I had been a Protestant) it is to be noticed that Paulist Protestantism despises Spirituality. They lean heavily upon the quote from Paul that only the Devil would ever appear as a Divine Angel of Light. It was with this “Black is White and White is Black” quote that Paul had frankly sabotaged Spirituality for every Paulist. Anyway, it is odd that Paul could teach such a thorough Suspicion to his Congregations and yet they would never think of turning that Suspicion back upon himself. And this brings me to my last argument. Protestants are stupid.

[dream-scape]

Originally posted by Leo Volont Now, we must wonder why it is that anything that calls itself a “Religion” is so convenient for those who display absolutely no morality. We could argue that about practically any religion that exists for the rest of our lives. But what a god damn waste of time.

[Drifter]

What’s more, as having been something of a Spiritualist my whole adult life (and before that I had been a Protestant) it is to be noticed that Paulist Protestantism despises Spirituality. [/b] I agree with that as a former protestant myself. I was pretty spirtual beilieving and having deep feelings for the spiratual world. When i joined the protestant mindset it felt empty, it made me question everything that if it wasnt protestant then it was evil and tossed away. The most popular word for a protestant was "hell" the one that "witnessed" to me loved saying that certain people were in hell. For example Mother Terresa she said in a interview that you need good deeds and a be a good person (not exact quotes) to have life with god, and he said shes going to hell cause she taught false doctrine. Have faith and you will be saved if you dont get ready to burn, but the question is to a protestant how much faith is required to be saved?

[Genjyo]

Originally posted by Drifter Have faith and you will be saved if you dont get ready to burn, but the question is to a protestant how much faith is required to be saved? Hi friend! The type of faith needed to be saved comes with trust and hope in Christ. If one trusts and believes in His work at the cross, the "how much" question has already been resolved, for faith reveals God's grace.

[juroara]

Originally posted by Drifter For example Mother Terresa she said in a interview that you need good deeds and a be a good person (not exact quotes) to have life with god, and he said shes going to hell cause she taught false doctrine. those kind of religious mind sets make me sick! I like to stick to the analogy of fruit bearing trees, the most ripe fruit come from those trees that grow in good soil. bad soil = sour fruit - I think a lot of religions that place no value on spirtuality display this

[juroara]

[quote] Hi friend! The type of faith needed to be saved comes with trust and hope in Christ. If one trusts and believes in His work at the cross, the "how much" question has already been resolved, for faith reveals God's grace. trust and hope IN Christ? What does trust and hope in Christ really mean? Is Christ a human being? Or is not Christ in all Christian religions much more than a human, a being who existed before all of us and after all of us? So does it mean hoping and trusting what a MAN did 2000 odd years ago? Or does it mean in trusting and hoping in what Christ is? By the definition of faith of countless Christian Religions - no child has this faith so they must all be condemned to hell. No child really understands the Gospel, especially if they think Christmas is about Santa Claus and presents! All children, hell bound - this God of this faith can't possibly be a loving God. Of course, most christians don't believe children are going to hell - I am just pointing out the hypocracy of needing this type of faith for salavation. Its really stupid to suddenly believe at a certain age God decides you are hell bound and suddenly need salvation....... See this where religion ends and spirituality begins. This is where religions are blind and ignorant. Christ, as for as Christianity is concerned is NOT a human being. We do not worship a human. But Christian religions have things so backwards if if someone does not worship or follow the HUMAN Christ (Jesus) we say they are not saved.........But Jesus Christ didnt come just to spread the Good News to save a select few, Jesus Christ is the Good News - WE, ALL humans - are saved. Not a select few. And in my opinion, we were saved from a lot of things and one of them is a lie. A lie that God is sending people to hell. I can go on forever discussing how and why this Good News was so important, but simply remember that in countless ancient cultures your status on earth was more less your status in heaven - what hope could a poor have? What hope could the Untouchables have? And as for the fear of hell, just look at the Salem Witch Trials! The Fear of Hell makes men ignorant. True, one needs to believe in Christ to be saved, and saved from those lies. But that doesn't mean one even needs to believe that Jesus Christ was real!! For me? Christ is Truth. Christ is Love. Christ is Hope, Christ is Tree of Life and a whole lot of other things. If one believes in Truth, they believe in Christ. If one searches for Truth, they search for Christ. If someone has Hope, they have Christ. If someone believes in Love, they believe in Christ. If someone has Love in their Heart, Christ is in them.

[Genjyo]

Hi Juroara! I don't entirely understand what you mean, but I'll try to elaborate a bit. Christ is human and God. His sacrifice for us on the roman cross and most importantly, His subsequent resurrection is the basis for the Christian faith. What happened two millennia ago has forever altered history. 1 Peter 2:24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed. I recommend reading Isaiah 53, it carries a whole new dimension knowing Jesus took our sins for His righteousness. Romans 4:5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 7"Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. 8Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him." So placing our trust and hope in the Lord and Saviour encompasses then, now, and the thereafter. Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Drifter For example Mother Terresa she said in a interview that you need good deeds and a be a good person (not exact quotes) to have life with god, and he said shes going to hell cause she taught false doctrine. * Yes, exactly! So many people feel that I simply must be exaggerating the issue -- that it could not POSSIBLY be the case that Protestants by their very Doctrines stand AGAINST Righteousness, but they in fact do. To the Fully Doctrinaire Protestant, Mother Theresa indeed IS going to Hell and for one reason only -- because she was Willfully Righteous. How can this make Protestants anything other then Willfully Satanic?

[Leo Volont]

[quote] Hi friend! The type of faith needed to be saved comes with trust and hope in Christ. If one trusts and believes in His work at the cross, the "how much" question has already been resolved, for faith reveals God's grace. Faith is another one of those Antichrist Kind of Things. Look at what the Doctrine of Faith fully implies. It is not only used to explain why Miracles happen but, more importantly, in inverse, WHY MIRACLES DO NOT HAPPEN. People are blamed for their LACK OF FAITH. Now, in a Truly Divine Universe, God could do what ever it is that He wanted. God would have the Power, is that not so? But what happens with the Doctrine of Faith? Suddenly God's Dispensation must depend upon the attitudes and belief systems of mere mortal Human Beings. Does that sound right to anybody? No. Just look at the Origins of Faith. You see, Paul's Congregations had heard of the Miracles and Wonders that the Real Apostles were bringing to their Jewish Messianic Congregations, and the Paulists were clamoring for answers as to why they had no such experiences. Well, Paul had to come up with an answer. So we have the Doctrine of Faith, or, more importantly we should call it THE DOCTRINE OF LACK OF FAITH. In almost every instance where the Concept of Faith is invoked, concretely and not in the abstract, it is trotted out, in the inverse, to explain why Miracles DON'T happen. The way we see it used, day in and day out, it is the Doctrine of Lack of Faith. So does Faith really exist, or is it just an excuse Paul made up to explain away his own Spiritual Impotence -- to switch the blame to his Congregations by accusing them of Lack of Faith? No. Faith is not required. A Technique works or it doesn't. A Mantra works or it doesn't. A Saint has Power or he or she doesn't. Jesus was Messiah or He wasn't. Something is True, or its not. What would Faith have anything to do with any of this? Indeed, as Dreamers we know this. Faith... hopes... wishes... expectations....whatever. Its all meaningless. We need only to find a working Technique, or something that is substantially Correct. A good Technique WILL work. A good Mantra WILL work. Faith is useless. Faith is the Con Man's Argument... after they take your money and nothing works, they can say "YOU DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH FAITH". In other words, its always your own fault when what you paid for doesn't work. Now, I've told Genjyo all this before, but he must be a rather tenacious man of faith. I wonder what he charges?

[Genjyo]

Hello Leo, how have you been? That was a well thought out post! However, it is inaccurate to say I don't believe in miracles.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Genjyo Hello Leo, how have you been? That was a well thought out post! However, it is inaccurate to say I don't believe in miracles. Well, the distinction there does not involve whether or not one believes in miracles. I think the issue was Faith. Having confidence in one's knowledge of the existence of Miracles is a good thing. But Faith is too close to Wishes do come True, which is silly. But more than that, Faith is more often then not trotted out in the Inverse, that is to say, that Religious Frauds insist that it is their Clients and Congregations Fault when Miracles that were promised them are not delivered, because of the LACK OF FAITH. So it is that Faith is a Destructive Doctrine. Among Religious Doctrines, FAITH is the Wolf in Sheeps Clothing.

[Genjyo]

I agree, fraudalent people are just that, despicable! However, there is no reason that faith or lack of faith is the culprit. The blame belongs to the false miracle worker. How can that person continue to fool people and won't others catch on? I must admit I have never heard of frauds like these. That is just a scenario that could be deduced from. It is a mystery why faith is at question here rather than the obvious.

[Canon]

Originally posted by dream-scape We could argue that about practically any religion that exists for the rest of our lives. But what a god damn waste of time. Yeah i agree But this particular forum is more about flaming diffent beliefs and religions than discussing different things about them. They should get rid of this forum and just start giving more action in the philosophy forum.

[juroara]

Originally posted by Genjyo [color=darkred]Hi Juroara! I don't entirely understand what you mean, but I'll try to elaborate a bit. Oh, I understand the Christian view of Jesus being Lord. I am not arguing against that, not at all - actually I am using that point of view to argue to the very necessity to even be Christian in the first place. One does not need to be a Christian to be saved - thats my point and my view. The faith says you can't reach God without going through Jesus first. And this has been used time and time again to tell people they are going to hell unless they are 'Christian'. But Jesus is more than a man, you can go through Jesus, walk with Jesus or be like Jesus without even knowing who Jesus is. The Christian just becomes someone who spreads the Good News to those who haven't heard it, and someone who goes out of their way to consciously worship God.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by juroara Oh, I understand the Christian view of Jesus being Lord. I am not arguing against that, not at all - actually I am using that point of view to argue to the very necessity to even be Christian in the first place. One does not need to be a Christian to be saved - thats my point and my view. The faith says you can't reach God without going through Jesus first. And this has been used time and time again to tell people they are going to hell unless they are 'Christian'. But Jesus is more than a man, you can go through Jesus, walk with Jesus or be like Jesus without even knowing who Jesus is. The Christian just becomes someone who spreads the Good News to those who haven't heard it, and someone who goes out of their way to consciously worship God. yes, very early on during my spiritual pursuits I had a Vision in which the Very Angel of God told me that "Christ is the Life in All Things". Well, that defines Christ cosmically -- we are given a Cosmic Christ that essentially transcends any specific History or ethnic attachments. One does not need to belong to a Church founded by Paul in in order to acknowledge the Existence of a Cosmic Christ, or to receive any of the possible benefits or graces. Additionally we have some apropriate Scripture that is continuously misinterpreted. For instance, when Jesus says that he "is the Way, the Truth, and the Life", we must keep in mind that Jesus is here defining himself Cosmically and Universally. Notice that Jesus is not saying "I am a particular Human Being who is expounding a particular doctrine". No! That is what Paul did. But Christ defined himself beyond his Humanity and even beyond his Body. And yet those with no metaphysical background or understanding quote this Declaration of Cosmic Significance by insisting that it limits Jesus to a specific historical context. That is NOT what Jesus was saying. You know, people often accuse me of some crime against Religion for ignoring the Bible, or rendering my own interpretations too freely. But, consider, what choice do I have, after having received a Revelation from the Very Angel of God. To weigh that against a mere book. the Angel will win everytime. Indeed, we should compile a New Bible, and somewhere up front we should quote tghe Very Angel of God as having had said "Christ is the Life in All Things". Actually, the complete quote is "Remember One Thing, that Birth is but an Illusion, and Christ is the Life in All Things." Notice that "Birth is an Illusion and Christ is the Life in All Things is considered to be One inseparable Concept...

[Drifter]

Hey Leo i was just wondering if you could give a detailed acount of you encounter with the Angel. Thanks. and just one other thing has anyone came to you with qoutes from the bible that warns us about false teachings even if it is from an angel. Galations 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! or 2 Corinthians 11:14 14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. Just wondering what your thoughts are on those quotes in regards to your vision. Im not douting that it wasnt a real vision from and angel just thought that maybe there was a chance that you could have been decived. Thanks.

[juroara]

Originally posted by Drifter Hey Leo i was just wondering if you could give a detailed acount of you encounter with the Angel. Thanks. and just one other thing has anyone came to you with qoutes from the bible that warns us about false teachings even if it is from an angel. Galations 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! or 2 Corinthians 11:14 14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. Just wondering what your thoughts are on those quotes in regards to your vision. Im not douting that it wasnt a real vision from and angel just thought that maybe there was a chance that you could have been decived. Thanks. concidering what the angel said to him, if an angel did say anything to him, He or She or It did not speak against the gospel ^o^ but rather reinforced it - so nothing to worry about the experiences you gotta watch out for, is when a spirit takes over the body and speaks through it. willing mediums! I never trust them

[juroara]

Originally posted by Drifter Hey Leo i was just wondering if you could give a detailed acount of you encounter with the Angel. Thanks. and just one other thing has anyone came to you with qoutes from the bible that warns us about false teachings even if it is from an angel. Galations 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! or 2 Corinthians 11:14 14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. Just wondering what your thoughts are on those quotes in regards to your vision. Im not douting that it wasnt a real vision from and angel just thought that maybe there was a chance that you could have been decived. Thanks. concidering what the angel said to him, if an angel did say anything to him, He or She or It did not speak against the gospel ^o^ but rather reinforced it - so nothing to worry about the experiences you gotta watch out for, is when a spirit takes over the body and speaks through it. willing mediums! I never trust them

[Leo Volont]

concidering what the angel said to him, if an angel did say anything to him, He or She or It did not speak against the gospel ^o^ but rather reinforced it - so nothing to worry about the experiences you gotta watch out for, is when a spirit takes over the body and speaks through it. willing mediums! I never trust them [/b] I am troubled by this logic. The Catholic Church has used such logic to certify its Saints. First, in the evaluation process, the candidates are examined for instances of Divine Miracles and Fruits of the Vine of Christ. If a number of Miracles can be shown to have bee effected by or for the Candidate, then the person is evaluated for whether or not his behavior, teachings and opinions are in total conformance to those of the Pedophile Bishops. This certainly must be a mistake. The Church is putting the Bishops over the Saints. The Church is plowing under the Vine of Christ for those who had merely set themselves up in power through the most worldly of methods -- rich families pull strings and Little Johny gets the Red Hat. Fine, somebody needs to be Boss. But for such borderline Corruption to judge the Saints.... its ridiculous. You see, Saints must be able to render some closed-loop feedback for the Religions of which they are representative. If a Religion has a problem or has gone off course, then what is better then that a Saint should be Graced by God to set things Straight. But more often then not, the mere human beings who become the monolithic power establishment in these Religions, they resent any interference, even if it comes from God and things Divine. They toss out the Inconvenient Truths. So, if an Angel should come to one, and criticize any particular "Gospel" that has been passed down to us from human authors and human editors, then I wonder that anybody would be silly enough not to believe an Angel before he would believe ... the pedophile Bishops and those of the Warmongering Religious Right. If the Gospel was so great, then why did its Civilization fall, and why were there so many instances of Evil while it was in play? I've answered this question dozens of times. People think that what Paul taught was as genuine as the Words and Teachings of Christ. And they weren't. And it doesn't help when people reject Saints and Angels when they try to correct this mistaken notion.

[Leo Volont]

Hey Leo i was just wondering if you could give a detailed acount of you encounter with the Angel. Thanks. and just one other thing has anyone came to you with qoutes from the bible that warns us about false teachings even if it is from an angel. Galations 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! or 2 Corinthians 11:14 14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. Just wondering what your thoughts are on those quotes in regards to your vision. Im not douting that it wasnt a real vision from and angel just thought that maybe there was a chance that you could have been decived. Thanks. [/b] Look at those quotes from the perspective of the Antichrist attempting to defend his lies against the counterattacks of a Righteous God. Paul is asking us to take his Word over that of the Very Angels and even over God Himself. Afterall, with God in Heaven, it is only by the Agency of the Angels that we can have an Revelation of Divine Intent. And then we should allow Paul to tell us that we should not listen to them, but to listen to himself. What was so interesting about what Paul asserted that we should cast God Himself into exile because of it? And my dream in more detail: The Angel of God Dream I once had a Dream of the Very Angel of God(it may have been God Himself). I was at the grave site of Erasmus. Erasmus was an interesting character in History. He was the author of a best seller in his day, “In Praise of Folly”, and it pointed out a lot of the corruptions of the Catholic Church before the Reformation. They used to say of Erasmus that “he layed the egg of the Reformation, but Luther hatched it”. Protestant Historians rather claim Erasmus as one of their own, without ever considereing that Erasmus stayed with the Sacraments his entire life and died in the arms of Mother Church. It was Corruption he had a problem with, NOT the Catholic Church in its promise of possible perfection. Anyway, I was there at Erasmus’s grave and on it was graffiti which said “Erasmus will not live beyond the grave”. Well, I thought to myself “of course he will live beyond the Grave... everybody does”. This is when the Angel of God appeared—as a huge Form of Flaming Lights as large as a great fiery oak tree. Instantly my knees gave out beneath me and I collapsed into a kneeling position, and tears sprang from my eyes—all automatically with no thought, no real emotion behind it... it was simply what would happen in the presence of the Angel of God. Then It spoke, “No. Not everyone will live beyond the grave. BUT ERASMUS WILL”. and then this next part will surprise you, as it always has surprised me... that I had the audacity to speak back (one would think that one would be dumbstruck in the presence of God). I said, “What about me... Will I live beyond the grave?” There was a great pause as It seemed to think about my inquiry for what seemed like an eternal moment. Then He replied “You too will live beyond the Grave, but remember One Thing—that birth is but an illusion and Christ is the Life in All Things”.

[Drifter]

Look at those quotes from the perspective of the Antichrist attempting to defend his lies against the counterattacks of a Righteous God. Paul is asking us to take his Word over that of the Very Angels and even over God Himself. Afterall, with God in Heaven, it is only by the Agency of the Angels that we can have an Revelation of Divine Intent. And then we should allow Paul to tell us that we should not listen to them, but to listen to himself. What was so interesting about what Paul asserted that we should cast God Himself into exile because of it? And my dream in more detail: The Angel of God Dream I once had a Dream of the Very Angel of God(it may have been God Himself). I was at the grave site of Erasmus. Erasmus was an interesting character in History. He was the author of a best seller in his day, “In Praise of Folly”, and it pointed out a lot of the corruptions of the Catholic Church before the Reformation. They used to say of Erasmus that “he layed the egg of the Reformation, but Luther hatched it”. Protestant Historians rather claim Erasmus as one of their own, without ever considereing that Erasmus stayed with the Sacraments his entire life and died in the arms of Mother Church. It was Corruption he had a problem with, NOT the Catholic Church in its promise of possible perfection. Anyway, I was there at Erasmus’s grave and on it was graffiti which said “Erasmus will not live beyond the grave”. Well, I thought to myself “of course he will live beyond the Grave... everybody does”. This is when the Angel of God appeared—as a huge Form of Flaming Lights as large as a great fiery oak tree. Instantly my knees gave out beneath me and I collapsed into a kneeling position, and tears sprang from my eyes—all automatically with no thought, no real emotion behind it... it was simply what would happen in the presence of the Angel of God. Then It spoke, “No. Not everyone will live beyond the grave. BUT ERASMUS WILL”. and then this next part will surprise you, as it always has surprised me... that I had the audacity to speak back (one would think that one would be dumbstruck in the presence of God). I said, “What about me... Will I live beyond the grave?” There was a great pause as It seemed to think about my inquiry for what seemed like an eternal moment. Then He replied “You too will live beyond the Grave, but remember One Thing—that birth is but an illusion and Christ is the Life in All Things”. [/b] That sounds like a very powerfull experience, do you still feel the power of that vision? and how vivid was this vision

[Leo Volont]

That sounds like a very powerfull experience, do you still feel the power of that vision? and how vivid was this vision [/b] it had all the intensity of a Lucid Dream. The colors were vivid, and the sensations were very present. Now that I think back, I can remember how bright the colors were, of not just the Fiery Angel of God, but even of the ground beneath my knees. The ground was bright, as though it not only reflected light, but gave off light.