Thread: Abortion Is Not Murder.

In regards to the 1st and 2nd trimester thing, are you sure that's correct?

I mean, my dad and uncle are identical twins, so they were born early, as most twins are. And they were born at a little under 6 months, which puts them in the second trimester, and they survived, obviously. And my dad became an anesthesiologist and my uncle a professor of physics at Iowa State University. So I'm thinking SOME of their neurons were developed by the time they were born.

But it's like Leo said about potential. What ever neurons aren't developed in the second trimester, they have the potential for developing, and developing normally, even if the baby is removed from the womb in the second trimester. If I'm not mistaken, a baby born at even 5 months can survive and be normal...granted, with some help. But again we're talking about potential here. And even infants born at the full 9 months are helpless and require care from adults to survive and fulfill their potentials. And years into the future, who knows? Maybe we'll be able to help a baby born at 3 months to survive and have a normal life.

So you see, the gray area just keeps getting grayer and grayer as we advance in science, technology, and philosophy.


(note: This isn't a testimony as to whether or not I'm pro-choice, just wanted to give y'all another point to consider.)

Neurons develop early, but the specific neurons necessary for consciousness do not develop until right around the beginning of the third trimester. They are specific neurons in the post-central gyrus of the temporal lobe of the brain. Until those are there, no mind exists.

To those who put stock in the argument about potential, please tell me something. People probably keep thinking I just want to be sarcastic when I say what I am about to say and ignore it, but I really want an answer. Somebody who supports the argument about potential please give me one. Britney Spears and I have a new potential baby every month. The potential for human life is there. Right? So why is she not a murderer for not sleeping with me?

Read the 8th paragraph of this...

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:QYrQX...t=clnk&cd=1

There is a debate about the exact moment among neurologists, but nobody claims there is consciousness before the 20th week. The English are splitting hairs over whether or not consiousness begins possibly before the 24th week. The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists says 26 weeks.

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:7Xw8p...t=clnk&cd=2

So perhaps the mind begins on some extremely faint level not long before the beginning of the third trimester. A zygote has no consciousness, but a newborn baby does. Somewhere in there, a mind is born, and it is somewhere around the beginning of the third trimester. Before then, there is nothing there to murder. If you think potential means murder, then get Britney on over here so we can get to work and prevent a murder.

Originally Posted by Universal

Britney Spears and I have a new potential baby every month. The potential for human life is there. Right? So why is she not a murderer for not sleeping with me?
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You're not talking about potential. You're talking about something that wouldn't happen in a million years and calling it the same thing as having an 80% chance of a perfectly normal pregnancy that ends in livebirth. The chances of you having sex with Britney Spears during the right time, her conceiving, and the pregnancy going to full term are probaly more like .0008%, not 80%. Besides the fact that the potential for human life is NOT there unless certain steps are taken, some of which you'll never achieve with that particular person. Why you would even want to is beyond me, but that's a different discussion.

You really are giving an absolutely stupid comparison. You're probably just being sarcastic and purposefully giving dumb arguments, but you're really not doing any good.

Besides the fact that a heterosexual couple does not have the same chances of having a baby every single month the woman is ovulating. There are other factors involved like health, the regularity of the woman's cycles, how viable the sperm is, whether the egg is problem-free in the first place, whether or not birth control is used, the age of both parties, medications or drugs involved, etc. All of those things? Either aren't related to fertility or are only minutely related.

We're not talking about potential as in something that might possibly happen in a million years but probably not... we're talking about potential as in something that is almost certainly going to happen. If you can't understand that, then perhaps we should just discontinue this particular part of the debate.

I didn't mean to hit a nerve so hard, Dreammask. We can disagree on this and still have civility, in case you are interested in that sort of thing. My question was not even directed at you. You have argued likelihood, but others have argued "potential". A one in a billion chance is still "potential". If you are not talking about that, then calm your nerves. Are you in that time of the month when your egg loses its potential?

P.S.- I have met superslut Britney Spears. We went to rival Mississippi private high schools, ten years apart, and we have mutual friends of friends of friends. I mean, there is POTENTIAL! I am going to talk her into helping me save a life.

Originally Posted by Universal

We can disagree on this and still have civility, in case you are interested in that sort of thing.[/b]

Are you in that time of the month when your egg loses its potential?[/b]

oops

there went the civility I guess

Originally Posted by OpheliaBlue

oops

there went the civility I guess
[/b]

Well, I thought I should take a few quick jabs back before we get on with the civility.

The Britney Spears point is obviously a joke, but it was not meant to be hostile. It is just a more humorous way of making the point that there is a whole universe of potential out there. I wasn't trying to make anybody feel bad. But the egg comment was definitely a return of sarcasm.

Murder is a bad word for killing somthing that hasnt contributed to society. Im a bit of an asshole when it comes to this topic. There are plenty of peo[ple i think should be aborted and they're in their 30s, they just havent done anyhtign with their lives. Of corse if this was the case it could easily get out of hand but i can always dream.

Pro-choice

Originally Posted by TheNocturnalGent

There are plenty of peo[ple i think should be aborted and they're in their 30s,

Pro-choice
[/b]

Haha, that actually made me laugh

However, yes, you are an asshole. I am sure those people wouldn't want to die. However I guess if really no-one would miss them, and they wouldn't notice a thing, 'aborting' them isn't such a bad thing. Especially if they are leading a crappy life on the streets.

Guess I am a bit of an arsehole too

Thought for the day:

Every fetus is a potential asshole.

Originally Posted by Universal

Thought for the day:

Every fetus is a potential asshole.
[/b]

Heheheh.

Can't argue with that.

I believe that it is impossible to kill something that was never born. I believe in abortions 100%, except for maybe third trimester.

Originally Posted by xcrissxcrossx

I believe that it is impossible to kill something that was never born. I believe in abortions 100%, except for maybe third trimester.
[/b]

third trimester? pfft...Have you heard ever heard of a 5th trimester abortion? These are only supported by the fiercest liberals of all. ever.

Originally Posted by ;324791

third trimester? pfft...Have you heard ever heard of a 5th trimester abortion? These are only supported by the fiercest liberals of all. ever.
[/b]

Is that even possible?