You know, the point you're trying to make is quite moot. An atheist will feel the same way arguing with a hardcore christian, in that it's like bashing your head against a brick wall. |
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I find it very pointless to argue about Christianity with an atheist if they refuse to at least think of God in the same way we do. If you can't fathom the idea of someone being all-powerful all knowing, perfect, as a man who has absolutely everything under control and everything has a plan for it, then... don't bother arguing, it just does not make sense. I was at one point a non-believer, and I can see your point of view because I had that point of view. At the same time it is getting harder for me to see it in that way, because it just seems so wrong. |
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You know, the point you're trying to make is quite moot. An atheist will feel the same way arguing with a hardcore christian, in that it's like bashing your head against a brick wall. |
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I find alot of christians annoying to deal with (i said alot, not all because i know eveyrone is different). I see god knows how many who can't debate at all, and always say you're going to burn in hell forever. I'm not religious at all and find it pointless...too much BS is wrong with the world because of religion. What's wrong with respecting others choices? you can't and then it turn into an all out war online and people through their shit at the non believers with stuff they don't know is true. Makes me think, what makes religion true? because some people thousands of years ago decided to believe in something to pass the time? |
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You're right - there would be no point whatsoever arguing with different definitions of god. But I don't get your point. Most atheists can fathom the concepts you're talking about - in fact most arguments against the xian god I've seen presuppose some (usually all) of these characteristics. Just because people don't accept your god as truth doesn't mean they don't understand it conceptually. |
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In fact, homer, I'd like to add one thing: |
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I know it took me a while to post back, but I had to go to sleep and work today. Sorry I really shouldn't have put "man" in that sentence, I'm not the most reliable proof reader, as I assume I said everything the way I wanted it to came out. Most atheists can't see God in the same all-powerful definition, for example the theory of thermodynamics, if it were true why couldn't the creator or the entire universe simply ignore this, he could have created it and made it seem plausible (kind of hard to explain, but I think you should see my point) The point I was also trying to make is that for most Christians it should be easy to see things on the other side, because at one point we were. I also certainly do not believe "...gays are the devil." I simply don't believe they should be married in the house of God. (I know I'm just rambling, I'm just going as I remember) I also try not to push my view on anyone, I know that it generally won't get you anywhere, the best thing to do is to simply state your opinion, and then see where it goes from there. I also don't see any of the commandments as "scary" and I don't know which version you read but (for just ONE example) I'm pretty sure not killing people still makes sense now... (but you'd have to have read the Bible to know that or you know come out of the cave you must live in ) I think I had more to say but in the middle of this post I had to leave for a while, I remember thinking about something but I can't quite remember... |
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Most arguments between Christians and Atheists are pointless, but not quite for the reasons you state. Its for the most part is that both sides will argue to the death of them their point of view, and get so defensive about it that any proof for either side thrown in their face is ignored and their opinions won't change. |
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Personally I don't believe in an "ex-Christian" the way I see it, is: If you aren't with us now, you were never with us. |
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Sorry if you think it's ignorant, that's just what I've understood through scripture. It just sounds like you were just trying it out, and tricking yourself into believing it, I did that for a while too... |
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I was hardly tricking myself. In fact, right now I want to believe. But I don't. I wish I could believe, I had a lot of comfort believing in God. If I tried to believe, then I'd be tricking myself. But no, I didn't try. I just did. It was the way it was and I believed with all my heart. |
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It doesn't it say it exactly like "you cannot become unsaved" it's more of an implied thing, reading Romans, is what taught me, I would have to quote Romans in its entirety so that the verses would make sense. I can try to pinpoint a specific verse, but I will have to go and search for it myself to be very sure. |
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OK I've got the perfect verse John 10: 25-30. (I'll just use the main part) "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand" (verse 28) I know it's not from Romans, I just like this verse, can't believe I forgot it. |
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Not just die, but die for 8 minutes. That's long enough for the brain to shut down. When you die what you may see can be a neuron/eye illusion, then when 8 minutes are up the brain is shut down and THEN we will see what's really true, or what's not true. I'm not sure but i don't think there is proof of people seeing stuff after 8 minutes. I think it was before you die you see stuff, then you come back and tell others your expierence. If i'm wrong, please correct me. |
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Last edited by LucidFlanders; 05-14-2007 at 06:37 AM.
That's right. This creator could have done that. This creator could also have put dinosaur bones into the ground to make it look like the earth was created billions of years ago, when in fact it was actually 7000 years ago or whatever the current number is. But by that logic, the world could just as well have been created 5 minutes ago, including all your memories. We don't know which of those is truth, because that would mean speculating on "metadata". That would be like life forms in a 2D world trying to understand the 3D world. They can't. They can only believe that there is something out there they don't see. |
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But thats more like a reassurance that what God gives, no-one *else* can take away from you. You're saying something else; that once you have truly accepted God, *you* could never change your mind and reject Him. |
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Last edited by sourcejedi; 05-14-2007 at 05:28 PM. Reason: emphasis
The feeling of being safe and seeing your body and not caring they say is the neurons, too. While the white light, and tunnel is supposed to be the retinas or something with the eyes. That's if you believe that stuff to be the real factor, it could be, or it could be alittle but mainly what you see is real. Have they even tested it with a camera, or just guess work because that happens when you die and they see it on the machine screens. For all we know this could be part of the whole thing that's supposed to happen. |
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Last edited by LucidFlanders; 05-14-2007 at 06:03 PM.
This George guy still didn't really make the commandments scary, I still don't understand the scariness of it. I don't know what to say about the whole near death experience things, I actually think it's true about the neurons and stuff. I mean God would know if that person was going to die, he would take them when it's their time to really die. I'm going to post the entire John 10 : 25-30, because if you read the whole thing you can see that it's talking about the person and not just the things he gives us. It is also from a different version of the Bible, either way it says the same thing. |
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What a complete nonsense. Only cultists and such think one can only imagen something if they have 'experienced' it. That is completely illogical. I can imagen quite a lot. If I wanted, I could imagen I was an absolutely powerful god. |
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“What a peculiar privilege has this little agitation of the brain which we call 'thought'” -Hume
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