Looking for a bible verse

[Needcatscan]

There's a verse in the NT where Jesus tells his disciples that his second coming will be within their lifetime, (found it on the Skeptic's Bible), and have since forgotten what verse it was and can't seem to find it again. Since this is such a good verse to bring up when debating with Christians about the second coming I was hoping someone could help me out with re-finding it.

[Universal Mind]

Here's a good link about it. http://campus.fortunecity.com/defiant/666/coming2.html I found the Matthew 24 verse on an online King James Bible site, one that is Christian all the way. Read what it says from the top of the page at Matthew 24:28 to Matthew 24:34. In 24:30, it specifically mentions the coming of Christ. Then in 24:34 it says, "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." http://www.allonlinebible.com/search...&page=85&pp=10 I just noticed a verse I talked about a while back. Notice how in Matthew 24:29 it says that "stars shall fall from Heaven". In at least one other verse, it says that stars fell "to Earth". Doesn't that show a major lack of knowledge of astronomy? Stars are many, many times the size of Earth. Watch this video and think about multiple stars falling to Earth. http://youtube.com/watch?v=HKPUYZZbWxs

[Needcatscan]

Here's a good link about it. http://campus.fortunecity.com/defiant/666/coming2.html I found the Matthew 24 verse on an online King James Bible site, one that is Christian all the way. Read what it says from the top of the page at Matthew 24:28 to Matthew 24:34. In 24:30, it specifically mentions the coming of Christ. Then in 24:34 it says, "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." http://www.allonlinebible.com/search...&page=85&pp=10 I just noticed a verse I talked about a while back. Notice how in Matthew 24:29 it says that "stars shall fall from Heaven". In at least one other verse, it says that stars fell "to Earth". Doesn't that show a major lack of knowledge of astronomy? Stars are many, many times the size of Earth. Watch this video and think about multiple stars falling to Earth. http://youtube.com/watch?v=HKPUYZZbWxs You are the man Universal! thanks a bunch, that was exactly what I was looking for. "This generation shall not pass before these things shall be fulfilled." Thanks again.

[Universal Mind]

You are the man Universal! thanks a bunch, that was exactly what I was looking for. "This generation shall not pass before these things shall be fulfilled." Thanks again. No problem. Thanks for letting me know about the matter. I never knew about it until you got me researching it.

[sfdthegreat]

if you're still interested... "Generation here does not refer to a generation defined according to an age or a person, like the generations mentioned in 1:17; it refers to a generation defined by the moral condition of the people, like the generations in 11:16; 12:39, 41-42, 45; and Prov. 39:11-14" so don't use that in a debate because it's already been explained.

[Universal Mind]

if you're still interested... "Generation here does not refer to a generation defined according to an age or a person, like the generations mentioned in 1:17; it refers to a generation defined by the moral condition of the people, like the generations in 11:16; 12:39, 41-42, 45; and Prov. 39:11-14" so don't use that in a debate because it's already been explained. I can't really say I know what you mean by that.

[Silvanus350]

sfdthegreat, where do you get Proverbs 39 from?

[Needcatscan]

if you're still interested... "Generation here does not refer to a generation defined according to an age or a person, like the generations mentioned in 1:17; it refers to a generation defined by the moral condition of the people, like the generations in 11:16; 12:39, 41-42, 45; and Prov. 39:11-14" so don't use that in a debate because it's already been explained. You're right, it has already been explained. http://jcnot4me.com/Items/theology/S...Mt%2024-34.htm

[sfdthegreat]

lol...so much opposition i meant Prov. 30:11-14...yea 39 doesn't exist I have many things against that website you posted but obviously you aren't going to change your view, so whatever I say won't make a difference...plus i don't feel like arguing. seriously, online debates about religion are pretty much pointless. NO ONE CHANGES! (ok...that assumption may be wrong, but you get the point) (lol that kind of contradicts why I posted in the first place, which is what caused the debate) i'm not going to post again so whatever you write i might read but I won't say anything about it.

[Needcatscan]

lol...so much opposition i meant Prov. 30:11-14...yea 39 doesn't exist I have many things against that website you posted but obviously you aren't going to change your view, so whatever I say won't make a difference...plus i don't feel like arguing. seriously, online debates about religion are pretty much pointless. NO ONE CHANGES! (ok...that assumption may be wrong, but you get the point) (lol that kind of contradicts why I posted in the first place, which is what caused the debate) i'm not going to post again so whatever you write i might read but I won't say anything about it. Swish!

[Universal Mind]

You're right, it has already been explained. http://jcnot4me.com/Items/theology/S...Mt%2024-34.htm Wow, that explains it pretty well. I still don't quite understand sfd's point. A generation is a moral condition of a people? I have never heard that definition in my life. Plus, the moral condition of the disciples has changed because they are all dead, and the moral condition of the Jews of the area and of the Romans has changed because the Roman Empire no longer exists and the Jews no longer crucify people for appearing to be false prophets. The world is completely different now.

[Needcatscan]

Wow, that explains it pretty well. I still don't quite understand sfd's point. A generation is a moral condition of a people? I have never heard that definition in my life. Plus, the moral condition of the disciples has changed because they are all dead, and the moral condition of the Jews of the area and of the Romans has changed because the Roman Empire no longer exists and the Jews no longer crucify people for appearing to be false prophets. The world is completely different now. Exactly, it's a way for people to dance around the obvious meaning of the passage.

[blah]

i think what he means is a generality, not specifically the Jews or the disciples. There are things like wars, murders, thefts, rapes, and the many "bad" things that are going around today. You can't deny that. According to Christianity, the world is only supposed to get worse and worse until it is like Noah's time (where everyone is bad), and then its the end of the age. (the Great Tribulation). so the moral condition of the people is the "badness or evilness" of them. or... he could mean generation as in this age. According to Christianity there are many ages: from before the foundation of the world, from Adam to Moses which was before the Law, from Moses to Christ which was the with the Law, from Christ to the second coming (our age), then its the 1000 years thingy, and then its the New Jerusalem-eternity future. So he could mean the age from Christ to the second coming as a generation. Of course, these are just my interpretations so they really don't have much value...

[Universal Mind]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/generation

[Original Poster]

Perhaps this is another mis-translation like the jewish word for kill and murder or the whole idea that Jesus really meant aeon or the fact that the king james bible was written by William Shakespeare. I'm not saying revelation is real, and I certainly by no means promote a literal interpretation of something symbolic, especially the bible. I'm just saying the bible is a very mysterious and powerful book but translators betray.

[blah]

4. a group of individuals belonging to a specific category at the same time 6. a form, type, class, etc., of objects existing at the same time and having many similarities or developed from a common model or ancestor those definitions would fit...kind of... you'd have to define specific and object. but the part "a common model or ancestor" fits right in because, according to Christianity, God's purpose is to make man the same as He in life and nature(but not in the Godhead). the obvious meaning might not be the right meaning and really its not the word that matters but the meaning. if u said something that didn't make sense, sometimes people can still figure out what you mean by what you said.

[Universal Mind]

Perhaps this is another mis-translation like the jewish word for kill and murder or the whole idea that Jesus really meant aeon or the fact that the king james bible was written by William Shakespeare. I'm not saying revelation is real, and I certainly by no means promote a literal interpretation of something symbolic, especially the bible. I'm just saying the bible is a very mysterious and powerful book but translators betray. The first link I posted earlier has a very long list of different translations. 4. a group of individuals belonging to a specific category at the same time 6. a form, type, class, etc., of objects existing at the same time and having many similarities or developed from a common model or ancestor those definitions would fit...kind of... you'd have to define specific and object. but the part "a common model or ancestor" fits right in because, according to Christianity, God's purpose is to make man the same as He in life and nature(but not in the Godhead). the obvious meaning might not be the right meaning and really its not the word that matters but the meaning. if u said something that didn't make sense, sometimes people can still figure out what you mean by what you said. Notice where I boldfaced "at the same time". Nobody alive right now or after now can be classified as "at the same time" as the people who lived in the few decades after the year 00. Isn't the Bible supposed to be "the word of God"? How could God have gotten confused on how to say something?

[Original Poster]

The Bible isn't the word of God and you should stop using classic christian contradictions in dealing with the modern christians because the proportion of christians that know its was written by people outweighs those that think it was written by God, in my experience talking to them at least. One thing to consider, though, is that just about every religious zealot ever thought the world was going to end in their lifetime. It's no more true now than it was back then. Another thing to keep in mind is the future is often changing and many people that went through near-death experiences claim God (as in the illegitimate lord of the Universe) often tries to present the future to us in hopes we can change it. Maybe we already did.

[Universal Mind]

The Bible isn't the word of God and you should stop using classic christian contradictions in dealing with the modern christians because the proportion of christians that know its was written by people outweighs those that think it was written by God, in my experience talking to them at least. In the Bible Belt, where I live, most Christians think the Bible is the word of God. Also, in this forum, most Christians think the Bible is the word of God. Those are the people I am debating on this. If somebody thinks "generation" is just a symbol used to represent "a lolly pop one buys at the circus" in a book that is all about symbolism, then we have nothing to debate here.

[blah]

i thought "at the same time" meaning in this age, like you could say that people lived at the same time meaning in the Middle Ages, even though they were not all alive at the same exact moment. Most people believe that the Bible is the word of God, as I do. when I said "if u said something that didn't make sense, sometimes people can still figure out what you mean by what you said.", i meant it as an example that the obvious meaning isn't the right one. so... God didn't get confused on how to say something. He said it so that people could understand it. People do understand it but others don't... I guess it's kind of like the deeper meanings in the Bible. Everything that people know today are based on revelations of people in the past, like Martin Luther or others that are more recent. We build on those revelations. When people get revelations, they share it so that other people can know. People who didn't understand the true meaning of the passage could understand it through other people. just out of curiosity, what does John 1:1 say in your version of the Bible?

[nerve]

and it just might be possible that some people who wrote some parts of it down only thought that what they were writing was part of the word, and that others who read it also thought it was part of the word, but in fact, it may not be. just because we have "the word" in a material form, doesn't mean we should believe every part of it, as it was written by man, and is therefore subject to flaw. I think believing every part of a book written by man is dangerous and against God. God is not material and we should question everything material that relates to God.

[blah]

lol you're asking me to prove the Bible...basically. (I'm Christian) really, there are a lot of things that prove the Bible to be true but it would end up being a really long list. but... 1. All prophecies were fulfilled (except the ones that haven't happened yet) 2. It withstood the test of time 3. Ancient manuscripts, letters, and books from people are all in conformity. 4. http://sigler.org/finnestad/bible.htm i just found this and its interesting for the writers of the Bible, the Bible was written by over forty people over a course of 1600 years. These authors had diverse backgrounds. Their professions, knowledge, personalities, perspectives, cultures, and habits were all different. How can more than forty people, in various places, with different backgrounds, take 1600 years to write one book without it being disjointed and inconclusive and with a central thought, a beginning, a development, and a conclusion. If there were 40 doctors writing a book over 1600 years, the more modern ones would rewrite the old ones because new evidence would turn up.

[nerve]

1. All prophecies were fulfilled (except the ones that haven't happened yet) I have read that the prophecies weren't prophecies at all, they were added in later. I don't know if it's true, but it's worth looking into. I read it in this book: (link) (I need to re-read it) I don't know about the bible numerics. I would have to look further into that. If there were 40 doctors writing a book over 1600 years, the more modern ones would rewrite the old ones because new evidence would turn up. of course that would be different because medical knowledge and spiritual knowledge are two very different things. most religions, most every spiritual message, can be summed up with this: love thy neighbor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethic_of_reciprocity so, yeah, I could see that staying the same over thousands of years. Buddha taught it before Jesus was even born. I'm not trying to disprove God, but what I want to do is get people to stop worshiping a book and focus more on the spiritual than the material. a book that man (who is imperfect) wrote is not God. I do believe some of it was inspired by God, but to accept all of it without studying, questioning, and analyzing it, is dangerous. what does christianity come down to? like I said, love your neighbor. God is love. (1 John 4:8) the bible even says to focus on that above all else, to focus on God (love)always, and don't hold on to a set of beliefs without questioning them (to find out if they really are of God). Proverbs 3:5, "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding." I understand that as saying, "keep an open mind". if all you trust is God, if he is all you have in your heart, he will guide you. you must keep an open mind, and question everything. and what is love? selflessness. to be selfless you must acknowledge others. which means you must be open, you must have an open mind. love is the way, and if you believe that, if you believe in God with all of your heart, if all you have room for in your heart is God and you don't try to fill it up with this belief and that belief, you will be loving, patient, kind, and you will gain wisdom. do you understand what I'm saying? I will admit I'm bitter about christianity right now. but I'm not trying to prove it all wrong to you. I just want to get bible thumpers to stop thumping their bibles and actually open it. I was a christian. I was a christian, and for about a week I was very close to God after a spiritual epiphany. I was actually close to God for the first time since I got "saved" at age seven. but then the more I studied, the bible and also other religions, the more I learned, I realized there is much more than christianity. I don't believe in God anymore, not in the conservative christian sense, anyway. I'm just saying that so you know I'm not some random atheist or something, just trying to prove you wrong. I was a christian, I believed the same as you do, until I opened my eyes. and I did find the truth through the bible, but I also think that same truth can be found without the bible. John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." what is this "word"? was it a physical book floating around? do you believe that it was an actual physical book, or a bunch of stone tablets, floating in space? no...the word is the message, the message is love. the message is communication, selflessness. "and the Word was God"...God is love. that's the whole message. and unfortunately, not everything in the bible is loving. that makes sense to me, but hey, I don't know the actual hebrew, would someone like to comment?

[blah]

you have some interesting points prophecies weren't added in later because some were very recent like 1900s (restoring of the nation of Israel). people have studied, questioned, and analyzed the Bible. My Bible is full of footnotes explaining a lot of the verses- (mostly in the New Testament). when i read the Bible, i don't read to understand it or memorize every single word of it. I read it to gain God and after reading it (especially in the mornings), i feel really refreshed and it keeps me going through the whole day. Christians need the Bible because it contains God's purpose. like you said, people need to learn to trust in God and let Him fill their hearts. Then you will become a good person . (that is very hard ). God made man as vessels for Him and He basically wants us to be the same as He in life and nature. Reading the Bible gives people the means to let Him grow , spreading from spirit to soul and eventually to the body. As He grows within people, they become "loving, patient, kind, and wise". The Bible is essential to gaining Christ. The Word is the definition, explanation, and expression of God; it is God defined, explained, and expressed. That is why people need the Word. God is love, but he's also a lot of other things. God being love is not the whole message of the Bible, although it is important. As you said, "not everything in the Bible is loving". Everything in the Bible is for His eternal purpose- which is the main point of the Bible. The topic of the Old Testament is Christ. The topic of the New Testament is the Church. The topic of the entire Bible is His eternal purpose. IMO...

[nerve]

Christians need the Bible because it contains God's purpose. like you said, people need to learn to trust in God and let Him fill their hearts. Then you will become a good person . (that is very hard ). I don't believe becoming a good person is as hard as people seem to think. unless you're just that blind, you know what "good" and "right" are, and what "bad" and "wrong" are. it's so incredibly simple. it comes down to love. it can be applied in countless ways, but it's all the same. love. if you decide to focus on love above all else, in every little thing you do, the Lord will guide you (Proverbs 3:6), and you will do what's right. your mind will be clear. it is not very hard, as long as you know what to do (search for God) and are determinded to do it. the way is remarkably simple, but I believe the majority of christians think it is much more difficult to achieve than they can hope to, which gives them a defeatist attitude. they think you cannot be like Christ, they think, "oh, I'm just a sinner and can never hope to be so perfect and flawless as Christ, I can just never even come close." and I believe that subconsciously, without realizing it, they don't try as hard. God made man as vessels for Him and He basically wants us to be the same as He in life and nature. Reading the Bible gives people the means to let Him grow , spreading from spirit to soul and eventually to the body. As He grows within people, they become "loving, patient, kind, and wise". The Bible is essential to gaining Christ. The Word is the definition, explanation, and expression of God; it is God defined, explained, and expressed. That is why people need the Word. people can learn to be loving, patient, etc. without the bible. look at buddhism. God is love, but he's also a lot of other things. God being love is not the whole message of the Bible, although it is important. As you said, "not everything in the Bible is loving". Everything in the Bible is for His eternal purpose- which is the main point of the Bible. The topic of the Old Testament is Christ. The topic of the New Testament is the Church. The topic of the entire Bible is His eternal purpose. IMO... of course God is a lot of other things, I agree with that. but, love is a lot of other things. if you ask me, everything that love is, everything it represents, is all that matters. and if you search for love and want to apply it in your life, and try your best to, you are searching for God and want God in your life and you are trying to be godly. and the way I see it, whether you refer to it in terms of christianity or terms of buddhism makes no difference at all. the terms, names, symbols, and people that represent the religion, are material and therefore do not matter. those things serve to help us find the truth, but the truth is not the symbols themselves. I believe love is the only important thing. I believe God is love, nothing else. love is many things, so God is many things, but he is the many aspects of love, and nothing else. so please tell me. what is in the bible that is not of love, is important, or rather, should be applied?