Thread: For religious people, but having almost nothing to do with religion

I think as dissapointing as it is, there is always an explanation.

Ouija boards in particular are interesting because they often bring out our subconscious etc.



Something worth watching is British Illusionist Derren Brown's "seance"

Where he got a load of people from the public and held a seance and told them they were really trying to contact the dead. In fact I'll let wikipedia describe exactly what he did:

Originally Posted by INTERNET

he brought students from Roehampton University together for a live séance. He held the event at Eltham Hall, claiming the location had a history of paranormal activity after 12 people killed themselves in a suicide pact in 1974. Brown then proceeded to demonstrate the methods used by spiritualists.

The show attempted to involve the television audience with interactive activities, the first being to identify one of the members of the suicide pact by looking at photographs. The 12 pictures were shown on screen in a set pattern, with half of them in colour and half black and white. The viewer was instructed to choose one of the colour images that they "feel a connection with". Brown then directed the viewers in a movement pattern between the photographs (for example, move left or right to one of the adjacent black and white photographs). The positioning and movement instructions were carefully planned to ensure that no matter which photograph was initially chosen the viewer would finish on the picture of "Jane". Ten of the students also chose Jane. During the following Ouija board scene, the "spirit" guided the students to spell the name Jane.

Two of the students, along with the television viewers, were asked to write the name of a city. Both students chose London.

The final scene, the séance itself, saw the group "contact" Jane. One of the students spoke as if she were Jane, giving details of her life. A letter and short film confirmed the accuracy of the details.

Brown went on to explain some of the manipulations he had used, including the photograph positioning/instructions and the use of the ideomotor effect during the Ouija board scene. The suicide pact had not taken place and "Jane" was introduced to the students at the end of the show. In his book, Tricks of the Mind, Brown reveals that, contrary to claims when the show was aired, Séance didn't go out live. He said it was necessary to make people believe that it did at the time.

Channel 4 received 700 complaints, most before the episode was aired. Viewers who felt "something unusual" were invited to call a phone number, and callers were told that the show was carefully planned, and that no paranormal activities were taking place. Brown also warned viewers about the impending Ouija board scene, advising those who objected for "religious reasons or otherwise" to stop watching the show.

Basically he showed how suceptible we are subconciously to try and make these things real even if we don't know it or fool ourselves into believing.




As far as ghosts go, I have met various people with no reason to lie who have told me stories.


I know there is an explanation, because I know how strong wishful thinking and memory can distort things like this; I know because I've experienced similar things myself, weird events that my mind links to the supernatural, and being a weaker being i would attribute, but upon inspection and a cleared mind I almost always see the cause etc. Physical manifestations I am certain are possibly hallucinations of some sort. Anyhow I certainly don't believe in a conventional afterlife.

I leave room for the possibility of a scientific explanation we don't know; ie some kind of time warpish business, but this is the furthest I will lean.

Ok, here is an experience I would love to have an explanation for:

I played with the Ouija Board an "contacted" several entities with a friend. I went home; and for a little over a year after that, I was "visited" every other night. Scratches were to be heard spreading from the ceiling down to the baseboards of my bedroom. When I was alone in the same room as my electric piano, it would manually turn on, and play one note, and only that note.

Then I moved to a different country (not because of the haunting), and it ended.

I remember it all very clearly, so distortion is out of the question.

Originally Posted by syncron

Ok, here is an experience I would love to have an explanation for:

I played with the Ouija Board an "contacted" several entities with a friend. I went home; and for a little over a year after that, I was "visited" every other night. Scratches were to be heard spreading from the ceiling down to the baseboards of my bedroom. When I was alone in the same room as my electric piano, it would manually turn on, and play one note, and only that note.

Then I moved to a different country (not because of the haunting), and it ended.

I remember it all very clearly, so distortion is out of the question.

That's interesting, but not mind blowing or anything. I hear scratches in my house all the time. You may have imagined all of it, including the piano part.

I don't have a strong viewpoint on the paranormal at this point, but I certainly do not take the ouija board seriously. I did when I was a tween though.

I think the one "paranormal" thing that might have something to it is psychic ability, and even that would just be a scientific perceptual phenomenon that is so fuzzy and unpredictable that science can't yet explain it and has not documented it yet. There is something else to consider. People love to lie, I have slowly come to realize. A very high percentage of people love to make stuff up and tell it to others so they can sound like they have interesting stories to tell. Psychosis is also much more common than most people realize, and hallucinations happen all the time. There are also hallucinations that sane people have, such as those that happen during false awakenings and left over sleep paralysis. I woke up on my couch one time and "saw" a stuffed giraffe biting my toes, and I FELT it. It hurt! I couldn't do anything about it because I was still having sleep paralysis, and the whole thing was probably a false awakening.

Combinations of lies, hallucination memories, and psychic awarenesses can explain every phenomenon mentioned so far in this thread.

^^ That's a very intriguing post, UM! I hadn't even considered the part about people lying, but now that you mention it, it sounds quite plausible. I did that myself - when I was a kid and in my early teens, I would most definitely exaggerate any sort of "paranormal" experience. I also moved the ouija board every single time, but my imagination was good enough for me to still be able to enjoy it and pretend like it was moving on its own.

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

^^ That's a very intriguing post, UM! I hadn't even considered the part about people lying, but now that you mention it, it sounds quite plausible. I did that myself - when I was a kid and in my early teens, I would most definitely exaggerate any sort of "paranormal" experience. I also moved the ouija board every single time, but my imagination was good enough for me to still be able to enjoy it and pretend like it was moving on its own.

I think that is exactly what happens with a ouija board. When I was a kid, my brother and his friend asked a ouija board how old I will be when I die. "It" said I would be 32. I brought that up to my brother on my 33rd birthday.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

People love to lie, I have slowly come to realize. A very high percentage of people love to make stuff up and tell it to others so they can sound like they have interesting stories to tell.

Sadly true--people not only make stuff up, but substantially revise their memories without realizing it. I can accept revelatory vision and some psychic ability, but I would call those variant ways of processing information, or perceptual shifts. Ghosts and hauntings, however, have never convinced me.

Hmm, I was expecting those replies. I don't know what to say about the Ouija Board, the person I did it with really gave me his trust. Fake or not, it began the haunting/hallucinations/psychic phenomenon.

Just for the record (although it really doesn't matter), I don't like to be called a liar, or even assumed to be one. I strive to be honest in my life every chance I get.

As for my memory, it's perfect. Nothing was imagined, and I find it hard to believe that they were merely illusions considering my little brother recalls the sounds too. I guess it will forever remain a mystery....

However, one theory that came to mind once was telekinesis. What if I caused all of that?

There is no doubt in my mind that other entitites other than us exist.

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

I think as dissapointing as it is, there is always an explanation.

Ouija boards in particular are interesting because they often bring out our subconscious etc.



Something worth watching is British Illusionist Derren Brown's "seance"

Where he got a load of people from the public and held a seance and told them they were really trying to contact the dead. In fact I'll let wikipedia describe exactly what he did:





Basically he showed how suceptible we are subconciously to try and make these things real even if we don't know it or fool ourselves into believing.




As far as ghosts go, I have met various people with no reason to lie who have told me stories.


I know there is an explanation, because I know how strong wishful thinking and memory can distort things like this; I know because I've experienced similar things myself, weird events that my mind links to the supernatural, and being a weaker being i would attribute, but upon inspection and a cleared mind I almost always see the cause etc. Physical manifestations I am certain are possibly hallucinations of some sort. Anyhow I certainly don't believe in a conventional afterlife.

I leave room for the possibility of a scientific explanation we don't know; ie some kind of time warpish business, but this is the furthest I will lean.

Mmm, Derren Brown Tricks of the Mind is a very good book for attempting to explain things like this. According to him, it's very much about suggestibility - you start to want things (names, tales of murder, etc) and your hand moves 'of its own accord' to give you that. Derren Brown talks about how he hinted at a vicious murder in the house during a seance, and how the people involved spelled out a name, details, and so on, though in truth no such murder had occured.

It's a lot to do with suggestibility, and subconcious action, I doubt there's anything 'supernatural' about ouija boards. Or about anything, to be honest. The supernatural is just something we haven't yet got a definite explanation for yet, it doesn't mean there isn't one.