Thread: Atheists do you wish you could beleive in god?

Originally Posted by psychology student

Really, both are events percieved by man through his five senses. Have you heard of cognitive biases Stephent? Now why is one created and one discovered?

Do you really think that intelligent people would just make up God for reasons of social control, or because they genuinely believed in the existence of God?

Social Control. And it works. People learn to fear death and going to hell, so they live a "good life" in hopes of being rewarded. Its a fear tactic.

Originally Posted by The Tao

Ok, then if Religion was created by Man, that means Man created God, not the otherway around.... so... Why exactly are you arguing if your saying this?

Hypotheticals, nothing else

Originally Posted by The Tao

The Churches answer.... And where did your church get this information?

Somewhere? post Jesus, pre 1000 ad

Originally Posted by psychology student

Somewhere? post Jesus, pre 1000 ad

That doesn't even answer my question...

Originally Posted by The Tao

Social Control. And it works. People learn to fear death and going to hell, so they live a "good life" in hopes of being rewarded. Its a fear tactic.

Thats silly. Why would Jesus want social control. And if so, why would he cause a religious rebellion, with new concepts, subversive to the previous. Doesn't seem like social control to me. The social control thing comes in like 18th and 19th century England, where religion is percieved as a tool of social control. Right? Jesus foresaw this 1700 years previous?

Originally Posted by The Tao

That doesn't even answer my question...

Sorry, when I say church I don't mean mine. I mean the Christian authority or the church united in general.

Originally Posted by psychology student

Really, both are events percieved by man through his five senses. Have you heard of cognitive biases Stephent? Now why is one created and one discovered?

Do you really think that intelligent people would just make up God for reasons of social control, or because they genuinely believed in the existence of God?

No, God is not perceived, he is believed. Science is perceived or observed and can be tested at anytime and will never fail the test.

While science is physical and observable, religion is in the mind, and impossible to objectively test.


And yes, I do believe that religions have either been created or have been continued because of the social control aspect.

Originally Posted by psychology student

Thats silly. Why would Jesus want social control. And if so, why would he cause a religious rebellion, with new concepts, subversive to the previous. Doesn't seem like social control to me. The social control thing comes in like 18th and 19th century England, where religion is percieved as a tool of social control. Right? Jesus foresaw this 1700 years previous?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jesus didn't write the bible did he? I'm saying whoever thought up the concept of "God" and Religion thought it up.


Also, I wanted to make another point to an earlier one I made. When I said what did people do before Jesus, and you said Jesus gave them a chance to repent, what about those who Religion hadn't reached yet?

Its a fairly safe bet, that someone as smart as Jesus would know that in that day and age, news wouldn't spread that fast through-out the world. So, what about people on the other side of the world, who had no knowledge of this so called "God"? Were they offered the same deal for repenting?

And on that note, what about today? Do people who go to hell still get a chance to repent if they simply don't know of religion?

Even if it wasn't the fault of the person who created it, it usually happens. Weren't there a lot of things that were left out of the bible, and proof of multiple authors? The bible was edited by people. They kept some stuff in , and left other stuff out, for their own reasons. That's censoring Gods word if you believe all of that really is Gods word.

Who knows how many times the bible has been edited since.

Originally Posted by Stephent91

No, God is not perceived, he is believed.

Where does the belief come from then?

Originally Posted by Stephent91

While science is physical and observable, religion is in the mind, and impossible to objectively test.

Science can only be observed though as you say, but yes it is consistent.

Originally Posted by Stephent91

And yes, I do believe that religions have either been created or have been continued because of the social control aspect.

Created is the only pertinent verb in this debate, used is not. Christianity was never intended to be a tool of social control.

Oh my jesus christ lord savior. I can't believe this discussion!!

Psych student, look buddy, your arguments fall painfully short pretty much every time. I'm sure you'd have a lot of interesting things to say if you did some research and thinking. Arguing religion is very difficult. There are some very brilliant, non-religious minds in the R/S section, and your arguments pale in comparison to theirs. I'm not trying to be rude to you.. I'm just saying this for your own benefit. I missed your silly posts when you were absent for those few days like Stephen did, but your return hasn't been as humorous as I had hoped. It's actually a little sad.

Originally Posted by The Tao

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jesus didn't write the bible did he? I'm saying whoever thought up the concept of "God" and Religion thought it up.

Jesus' disciples wrote the gospel. And no one person "thought up" the concept of God, numerous independent persons showed a belief in the same concept.

Originally Posted by The Tao

Also, I wanted to make another point to an earlier one I made. When I said what did people do before Jesus, and you said Jesus gave them a chance to repent, what about those who Religion hadn't reached yet?

Its a fairly safe bet, that someone as smart as Jesus would know that in that day and age, news wouldn't spread that fast through-out the world. So, what about people on the other side of the world, who had no knowledge of this so called "God"? Were they offered the same deal for repenting?

And on that note, what about today? Do people who go to hell still get a chance to repent if they simply don't know of religion?

I don't know about all these smart ass questions, they seem to be besides the point though. What are you trying to do destroy Gods credibility by context.

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

Oh my jesus christ lord savior. I can't believe this discussion!!

Psych student, look buddy, your arguments fall painfully short pretty much every time. I'm sure you'd have a lot of interesting things to say if you did some research and thinking. Arguing religion is very difficult. There are some very brilliant, non-religious minds in the R/S section, and your arguments pale in comparison to theirs. I'm not trying to be rude to you.. I'm just saying this for your own benefit. I missed your silly posts when you were absent for those few days like Stephen did, but your return hasn't been as humorous as I had hoped. It's actually a little sad.

Thank you Mes, I know your trying to be nice, but atheism has made you cold.

And the lords name in vain, come on have some respect.

Originally Posted by psychology student

Where does the belief come from then?


Science can only be observed though as you say, but yes it is consistent.



Created is the only pertinent verb in this debate, used is not. Christianity was never intended to be a tool of social control.

Belief comes from being submissive to illogicalities and fear tactics claimed to be true by others.

You don't know whether Christianity is a control tool or not as you aren't the person in control. For all you know you could be a pawn is some scheme to dominate the world.

Originally Posted by psychology student

Thank you Mes, I know your trying to be nice, but atheism has made you cold.

Truth is a dish best served cold.

Originally Posted by psychology student

Thank you Mes, I know your trying to be nice, but atheism has made you cold..

And christianity has made you an idiot.

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

Oh my jesus christ lord savior. I can't believe this discussion!!

Psych student, look buddy, your arguments fall painfully short pretty much every time. I'm sure you'd have a lot of interesting things to say if you did some research and thinking. Arguing religion is very difficult. There are some very brilliant, non-religious minds in the R/S section, and your arguments pale in comparison to theirs. I'm not trying to be rude to you.. I'm just saying this for your own benefit. I missed your silly posts when you were absent for those few days like Stephen did, but your return hasn't been as humorous as I had hoped. It's actually a little sad.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Mes, I love you!

PS, I'd hide in a corner.

Alright Mark, youre an atheist thus you think your right. Ok.

Originally Posted by psychology student

Alright Mark, youre an atheist thus you think your right. Ok.

Finally!

Originally Posted by psychology student

Jesus' disciples wrote the gospel. And no one person "thought up" the concept of God, numerous independent persons showed a belief in the same concept.


I don't know about all these smart ass questions, they seem to be besides the point though. What are you trying to do destroy Gods credibility by context.

These aren't smart ass questions, they are perfectly legitimate questions. If "God" is all knowing, he would have to foresee this, and if Jesus is able to give people 2nd chances, even after they've gone to hell, then that 2nd chance should be extended to EVERYONE who didn't know about religion.

Its just one of the MANY issues with the bible and religion that make it less appealing, especially when none of it can be backed up. Everyone must turn to the bible for answers, and if the bible doesn't contain the answer, then the answer simply becomes "Because its God's Will.", which is a cheap cop out.

If people aren't able to defend their own religion, it just shows how weak religion is when its actually questioned.

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

And christianity has made you an idiot.

Thank you Dragon Overlord, the man who pondered on or actually attacked a church when someone insulted Islam in another thread.

Originally Posted by psychology student

Created is the only pertinent verb in this debate, used is not. Christianity was never intended to be a tool of social control.

But Christianity did become a tool of social control. Christianity says you have to marry a girl if you get her pregnat, christianity or atleast christians say gay people are going to hell and they have to supress their orientation. Christianity tells catholic priests you can't fuck so they take out their sexaul
frustrations on the poopholes of little girls and boys.

I could go on...but Christianity is a tool of social control.

Originally Posted by The Tao

These aren't smart ass questions, they are perfectly legitimate questions. If "God" is all knowing, he would have to foresee this, and if Jesus is able to give people 2nd chances, even after they've gone to hell, then that 2nd chance should be extended to EVERYONE who didn't know about religion.

Its just one of the MANY issues with the bible and religion that make it less appealing, especially when none of it can be backed up. Everyone must turn to the bible for answers, and if the bible doesn't contain the answer, then the answer simply becomes "Because its God's Will.", which is a cheap cop out.

If people aren't able to defend their own religion, it just shows how weak religion is when its actually questioned.

Ok then, thank you.

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

But Christianity did become a tool of social control. Christianity says you have to marry a girl if you get her pregnat, christianity or atleast christians say gay people are going to hell and they have to supress their orientation. Christianity tells catholic priests you can't fuck so they take out their sexaul
frustrations on the poopholes of little girls and boys.

I could go on...but Christianity is a tool of social control.

It has been used as a tool of social control, because people are a sinners. People, Chrisitan or not will do wrong. But the latter does not negate the purpose of Christianity.

And you used some stereotypes, which are stupid. I'm not a catholic neither is every Christian, get it right.