Thread: Atheists do you wish you could beleive in god?

Originally Posted by psychology student

The flying spaghetti monster was created by some angry atheist, angry with religion. It was made out of scorn essentially.
The concept of God and religion was created for serious reasons and by numerous independent persons over thousands of years. To me there is a clear difference.

Its the same concept. Believing in something just because you can't disprove it. Let me ask you this:

If over thousands of years, numerous people swore up and down that if you jumped from an extreme height, and truly believed that you would sprout wings and fly, would you believe it?

Originally Posted by Mark75

But UM didn't say that. What he said is that he wouldn't wish to believe in the standard Christian god, though he would like to believe in the god he mentioned. He didn't say "I wish I believed that religion and hell were real but I'd still not believe in hell".

Same thing, having a God that suits a persons fancies

Originally Posted by psychology student

The flying spaghetti monster was created by some angry atheist, angry with religion. It was made out of scorn essentially.
The concept of God and religion was created for serious reasons and by numerous independent persons over thousands of years. To me there is a clear difference.

The serious reason being that they didn't have science to explain the nature of things to them, so they resorted to calling it "the work of God".

Another reason being that the creators of the religion knew that they could easily get millions of followers and could control masses of people.

Also, the basis of his statement was that you can not disprove or prove either of them, which makes them the same in that sense. Even though the Spaghetti Monster seems very absurd to you, they both are just as provable both ways as each other.

Originally Posted by psychology student

The flying spaghetti monster was created by some angry atheist, angry with religion. It was made out of scorn essentially.
The concept of God and religion was created for serious reasons and by numerous independent persons over thousands of years. To me there is a clear difference.

you know what he meant. It's like saying "Can you disprove the existence of Odin or Zeus, or any other pre-Christian God?"

Originally Posted by psychology student

The concept of God and religion was created for serious reasons and by numerous independent persons over thousands of years. To me there is a clear difference.

I'm sorry, did you just say that god is a concept that was "created"?

Originally Posted by The Tao

Its the same concept. Believing in something just because you can't disprove it. Let me ask you this:

If over thousands of years, numerous people swore up and down that if you jumped from an extreme height, and truly believed that you would sprout wings and fly, would you believe it?

But I wouldn't because it would have been utterly disproved by science by now. And numerous serious people over thousands of years wouldn't write about a lie. Religion and God, have not been utterly disproved to this extent.

Originally Posted by psychology student

Same thing, having a God that suits a persons fancies

No, it isn't the same thing. UM is just expressing which things he would like to believe. I would like to believe that Dr. Pepper doesn't exist, yet it undeniably does. I operate under the belief that Dr. Pepper exists while also not liking that it exists. There is no "picking and choosing" here.

Originally Posted by Mark75

I'm sorry, did you just say that god is a concept that was "created"?

simple mistake, everyones a sinner, nobody is perfect.

Originally Posted by psychology student

But I wouldn't because it would have been utterly disproved by science by now. And numerous serious people over thousands of years wouldn't write about a lie. Religion and God, have not been utterly disproved to this extent.

see

Originally Posted by yay

you know what he meant. It's like saying "Can you disprove the existence of Odin or Zeus, or any other pre-Christian God?"

??????
what about that?

Originally Posted by psychology student

But I wouldn't because it would have been utterly disproved by science by now. And numerous serious people over thousands of years wouldn't write about a lie. Religion and God, have not been utterly disproved to this extent.

How has it been disproven? Has anyone jumped out of a plane and truly believed they would sprout wings and fly? And to quote you when I brought up people believing science:

"You could say the same thing about science!"

So first your saying that you can apply logic to science to nullify it, and then you turn around and try to trust that same science.

Originally Posted by Mark75

No, it isn't the same thing. UM is just expressing which things he would like to believe. I would like to believe that Dr. Pepper doesn't exist, yet it undeniably does. I operate under the belief that Dr. Pepper exists while also not liking that it exists. There is no "picking and choosing" here.

No but, Dr pepper is completely different when compared to the fundamental concepts that I mentioned.

Its still wishful thinking, "having a God that suits a persons fancies"

Originally Posted by Stephent91

Another reason being that the creators of the religion knew that they could easily get millions of followers and could control masses of people.

Really, this shows you don't know Christianity. When Jesus existed, the initiator of Christianity, he was rebellious to his society and infact incited the opposite of control of the masses.

Originally Posted by psychology student

Its still wishful thinking, "having a God that suits a persons fancies"

Wishful thinking? Gee, who saw that coming from a thread called "Atheists do you wish you could beleive in god?" Let's speak more broadly and say it's having a reality which suits personal fancies. Mine excludes Dr. Pepper and UM's excludes a certain god and place called hell. That these realities suit our fancies does not mean we actually believe them to be so.

Let me riddle you this also:

What did people do before Jesus and Religion came along? Did they all just burn in hell for being mass sinners and never worshipping God? Lets face it, we know religion didn't always exist, so what was it like before then?

Originally Posted by psychology student

No but, Dr pepper is completely different when compared to the fundamental concepts that I mentioned.

Its still wishful thinking, "having a God that suits a persons fancies"

He wasn't trying to pick and choose to actually believe in them.

He was saying something like: If a God was like this I wish I could believe in him, but he's not so I don't.

Originally Posted by psychology student

Really, this shows you don't know Christianity. When Jesus existed, the initiator of Christianity, he was rebellious to his society and infact incited the opposite of control of the masses.

That's why I put "The serious reason" under one and not that one. Jackass.

Although it is a very good reason why nearly all religion exists. Including Christianity.

Originally Posted by The Tao

How has it been disproven? Has anyone jumped out of a plane and truly believed they would sprout wings and fly?

We were talking about a hypothetical concept right? How would it have been disproven in reality?

Originally Posted by The Tao

"You could say the same thing about science!"

So first your saying that you can apply logic to science to nullify it, and then you turn around and try to trust that same science.

I said the thing about science when someone suggested that religion was created by man. Then I turned around and said that you guys should hypothetically imagine that religion was real, and this hypothesis in the context of the latter would also imply that science was real. As there Science and religion had been equated as fakes as both created by man. That was my hypothetical reasoning, and may not constitute my actual beliefs.

Originally Posted by The Tao

Let me riddle you this also:

What did people do before Jesus and Religion came along? Did they all just burn in hell for being mass sinners and never worshipping God? Lets face it, we know religion didn't always exist, so what was it like before then?

The churches answer to that is that Jesus gave them a chance to repent in Hell after his crucifixion.

Ok, then if Religion was created by Man, that means Man created God, not the otherway around.... so... Why exactly are you arguing if your saying this?

Originally Posted by psychology student

The churches answer to that is that Jesus gave them a chance to repent in Hell after his crucifixion.

The Churches answer.... And where did your church get this information?

Originally Posted by psychology student

We were talking about a hypothetical concept right? How would it have been disproven in reality?



I said the thing about science when someone suggested that religion was created by man. Then I turned around and said that you guys should hypothetically imagine that religion was real, and this hypothesis in the context of the latter would also imply that science was real. As there Science and religion had been equated as fakes as both created by man. That was my hypothetical reasoning, and may not constitute my actual beliefs.

No, science was discovered by man. Religion was created by man. Science has always been there, just as gravity has always been there, but it took time for us to discover all the things we now know.

Originally Posted by Stephent91

That's why I put "The serious reason" under one and not that one. Jackass.

Although it is a very good reason why nearly all religion exists. Including Christianity.

Sorry, Stephent, my dumb cousin.

Anyway, your reason was that they didn't have science. Then why is it that numerous independent people pick the same reason (God) to explain stuff. Is the concept of God in our genes? Or is it an environmental variable?

Originally Posted by psychology student

Sorry, Stephent, my dumb cousin.

Anyway, your reason was that they didn't have science. Then why is it that numerous independent people pick the same reason (God) to explain stuff. Is the concept of God in our genes? Or is it an environmental variable?

Yes it is actually. I can't remember where I read this, but it was something about us being genetically predisposed to belief in a higher power for unexplainable things. Something along those lines.

Originally Posted by Stephent91

No, science was discovered by man. Religion was created by man. Science has always been there, just as gravity has always been there, but it took time for us to discover all the things we now know.

Really, both are events percieved by man through his five senses. Have you heard of cognitive biases Stephent? Now why is one created and one discovered?

Do you really think that intelligent people would just make up God for reasons of social control, or because they genuinely believed in the existence of God?