The Ultimate Argument

[StephenT]

I had an idea. Why don't we try to bring nearly every argument against various religions into one place to create a sort of library of all the good arguments of everything. This could be a sort of reference for people to gather things from and a place to discuss lots of them. If you are religious, you could argue your answer to them, and they could get put into the library thing. Sound like a good idea?

[StephenT]

This post is reserved for the arguments if the idea is liked.

[Grod]

Good luck.

[StephenT]

Thanks.

[thegnome54]

General argument against the use of faith-based "reasoning": I am God. Everything I say is true. All naysayers are wrong, and will roast. You must have faith in me. Prove me wrong.

[StephenT]

General argument against the use of faith-based "reasoning": I am God. Everything I say is true. All naysayers are wrong, and will roast. You must have faith in me. Prove me wrong. We have a start. I think it should probably be organized. First we should tackle Christianity since it's the biggest and most apparent. We could divide it into segments such as the Bible, their portrayal of God, Jesus, etc. Then maybe into further sub-topics in each category. Should I set up a sort of system real quick? I might do it after I get done reading something.

[Universal Mind]

Here is a collection of arguments on both sides. http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...splay.php?f=37

[Grod]

Here is a collection of arguments on both sides. http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...splay.php?f=37 I re-iterate: Good luck.

[Needcatscan]

This is so OT but gnome, if I was stoned I could stare at your avatar for hours. Not being stoned I still stared for a couple minutes.

[Taosaur]

I had an idea. Why don't we try to bring nearly every argument against various religions into one place to create a sort of library of all the good arguments of everything. Yeah, then once you have enough of them in different sections, you could bind them to form a sort of atheist canon, and you could refer to them to answer any questions that came up about religion. Sorry, I just don't see the value of choosing sides then tossing the same talking points back and forth ad infinitum. That doesn't strike me as "thinking for yourself."

[Xaqaria]

Yeah, then once you have enough of them in different sections, you could bind them to form a sort of atheist canon, and you could refer to them to answer any questions that came up about religion. Sorry, I just don't see the value of choosing sides then tossing the same talking points back and forth ad infinitum. That doesn't strike me as "thinking for yourself." I was going to make a similar post. Isn't this the sort of thing atheists are usually arguing agianst; pre-packaged answers? I just think that if you use logic to define your beliefs then it should be easy to come up with your own arguments and opinions. That is the purpose of logic after all, a system of thought that can lead to a good answer without having to memorize it ahead of time.

[Carôusoul]

I agree. Work out who with. {It's not who you'd think}

[Xaqaria]

I agree. Work out who with. {It's not who you'd think} Wat?

[Mes Tarrant]

I mean here are the basic pro-religion arguments that I can come up with off the top of my head, and these are really easy because they are refuted in pretty much every debate... so perhaps they're not all that useful for a "library," but they might be for people who are new to arguing. 1. Religion gives us morals. 2. People need religion to be happy. 3. The universe is too complex for there to be no god. 4. I had a religious experience a few years ago. 5. You can't prove that god doesn't exist. Hang on, I thought there were more basic ones... Well, I'll come back to this.

[Riot Maker]

If God is omnipotent does he really need angels?

[Michael]

This is so OT but gnome, if I was stoned I could stare at your avatar for hours. Not being stoned I still stared for a couple minutes. I stare at it for hours everytime I see it. And what's this thread about?

[Sornaensis]

This sure sounds like the makings of a Church of Atheism...

[Mes Tarrant]

This sure sounds like the makings of a Church of Atheism... Can never happen. Atheists can't be herded!

[Taosaur]

Can never happen. Atheists can't be herded! *cough**cough*CHINA*cough* Excuse me, I've got, *ahem**aKhmer Rouge*hrk* a little something in my *cough**cough*Stalin*cough**cough*--I was saying, a little something in my throat.

[Mes Tarrant]

*cough**cough*CHINA*cough* Excuse me, I've got, *ahem**aKhmer Rouge*hrk* a little something in my *cough**cough*Stalin*cough**cough*--I was saying, a little something in my throat. Thank you!!! I'd like to add this to my list: 6. But but... Stalin and Hitler were atheists. It's quite obvious that you really need to research your competition, Taosaur, so you can come up with original arguments.

[Sornaensis]

*cough**cough*CHINA*cough* Excuse me, I've got, *ahem**aKhmer Rouge*hrk* a little something in my *cough**cough*Stalin*cough**cough*--I was saying, a little something in my throat. 1. A good portion of China is Tao 2. Hitler was Christian 3. Stalin was on the right track, but going the wrong direction. Need I mention that Mes here was referring to existing atheists as opposed to just forcing someone into atheism.

[Moonbeam]

Those cultures used extremely religious-like unquestioning devotion and transferred obedience from church leaders to political leaders. Where do you think Stalin and Mao got their ideas? They are just as much an example of the dangers of sheeple blindly following what they told to do as religion is. They are not examples of societies based on rational thinking.

[Riot Maker]

2. Hitler was Christian Night of 11th-12th July, 1941 "National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... "The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... "Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things." (p 6 & 7) 10th October, 1941, midday "Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure." (p 43) 14th October, 1941, midday "The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... "Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... "...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... "Christianity <is> the liar.... "We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State." (p 49-52) 19th October, 1941, night "The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity." 21st October, 1941, midday "Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... "The decisive falsification of Jesus' <who he asserts many times was never a Jew> doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... "Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea." (p 63-65) 13th December, 1941, midnight "Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... <here insults people who believe transubstantiation>.... "When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease." (p 118-119) 14th December, 1941, midday "Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... "Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics." (p 119 & 120) 9th April, 1942, dinner "There is something very unhealthy about Christianity." (p 339) 27th February, 1942, midday "It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie." "Our epoch in the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold <its demise>." (p 278) Want to change your mind?

[Sornaensis]

No. The initial purpose of the Nazi Regime was based STONGLY around Hitler's interpretation of Christianity.

[Riot Maker]

No. The initial purpose of the Nazi Regime was based STONGLY around Hitler's interpretation of Christianity. Yay the initial. Yet closer at the end of his life he denounced christianitysaying that it is a diesease and a lie.