Thread: If God is Dead, so is Atheism

What do you mean?

Umm... No.

The stand-point of Atheism is that there is no god. If god is dead, theres still no god. You fail.

I suppose it depends on what he means by "God is dead".

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

What do you mean?

it means that trolls on both sides of an issue turn to stone when the sun rises on them

Yeah, because now that God is dead, there's no longer any reason to do science.

No wait...

God is dead = nihilism. That's hard to deal with if you want to live a happy pseud0-normal life, so I ignore it.

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

God is dead = nihilism. That's hard to deal with if you want to live a happy pseud0-normal life, so I ignore it.

I'm not sure I understand what your saying ...

Well, from what little bit I know about Nietsche and his God is Dead stuff, he is really saying that ultimately nothing matters at all. But it's hard to live a normal life if you feel that way, even if you don't think there is a higher power who is going to make things right in the end or whatever, you still have to feel like your life "matters" to be happy. I think even tho ultimately Nietsche is right, it's too hard to live if you think everything is meaningless (even tho it is).

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

Well, from what little bit I know about Nietsche and his God is Dead stuff, he is really saying that ultimately nothing matters at all. But it's hard to live a normal life if you feel that way, even if you don't think there is a higher power who is going to make things right in the end or whatever, you still have to feel like your life "matters" to be happy. I think even tho ultimately Nietsche is right, it's too hard to live if you think everything is meaningless (even tho it is).

But then why live?

To reproduce.

Originally Posted by Keeper

But then why live?

That's my point; there really is no ultimate reason to other than that I want to. As Seis is saying, it's instinctive to want to live. So I don't focus on the fact that it's ultimately meaningless.

Militant atheism is stupid, yes - it's just as faith-based as theism.

However, most 'atheists' are really 'soft', or 'weak' atheists - we don't claim to know that god does NOT exist, we simply do not believe he does. It's a neutral position, really. It's possible that he does exist, we just see no reason to assume so, and by default this means that we do not include him in our thoughts.

What is militant atheism? Nobody is pointing guns at anybody. I only object to the power that organized religion has over things that affect me. I really don't care what anybody believes other than that.

Hey Keeper, how you been?


I hate this argument, so I'm gonna stay out of it.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

Militant atheism is stupid, yes - it's just as faith-based as theism.

However, most 'atheists' are really 'soft', or 'weak' atheists - we don't claim to know that god does NOT exist, we simply do not believe he does. It's a neutral position, really. It's possible that he does exist, we just see no reason to assume so, and by default this means that we do not include him in our thoughts.

I dont think there is such a thing as militant atheism as moonbeam says we dont go round killing people for their beliefs.

I would think its very acceptable to say that god does not exist and unacceptable to say he might exist after all its a yes or no answer and so far there is no proof at all so the answer has to be no.

just my opinion

Originally Posted by mark

I dont think there is such a thing as militant atheism as moonbeam says we dont go round killing people for their beliefs.

You just took the term complete out of context... it doesn't mean extremist.

A Militant Atheist is someone who is very, very strongly outspoken against religion and for Atheism. Someone who "campaigns" for Atheism against religion. This doesn't mean to actually kill, but it can be a verbal type of "campaign." We all know Atheists, even on this very site who would fit the definition of "militant."

Originally Posted by mark

I would think its very acceptable to say that god does not exist and unacceptable to say he might exist after all its a yes or no answer and so far there is no proof at all so the answer has to be no.

So you actually think its wrong for people to accept the possibility that they might be wrong?

The problem is its not simply a Yes or No answer, its not black and white. Many Atheists do not believe in god. I do not believe in god, but we hold the possibility that we could be wrong. After all, many Atheists were Christian or religious at some point, and thus ended up coming to the conclusion they were wrong once before.

What you're saying is like its wrong to think "I don't think I'm going to win the lottery, but theres a small chance I will."

Originally Posted by ExoByte

You just took the term complete out of context... it doesn't mean extremist.

A Militant Atheist is someone who is very, very strongly outspoken against religion and for Atheism. Someone who "campaigns" for Atheism against religion. This doesn't mean to actually kill, but it can be a verbal type of "campaign." We all know Atheists, even on this very site who would fit the definition of "militant."

oh fair enough sorry about that

Originally Posted by ExoByte

A Militant Atheist is someone who is very, very strongly outspoken against religion and for Atheism. Someone who "campaigns" for Atheism against religion. This doesn't mean to actually kill, but it can be a verbal type of "campaign." We all know Atheists, even on this very site who would fit the definition of "militant."

I didn't look up the definition, but I know I am probably as atheist as you get without coming out and saying I know for a fact there is no god, and I don't really feel "militant". That just seems to imply you'd like be willing to start a war over it or something. Which is why I don't like religions, more so than they fact that they are irrational.

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

saying I know for a fact there is no god

That would be what I refer to as 'militant', or 'strong' atheism.

It's the difference between saying "I know there is no God", and saying "I don't know there is a God".

Originally Posted by thegnome54

That would be what I refer to as 'militant', or 'strong' atheism.

I wasn't saying that I was that, I was saying I was just short of that.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

It's the difference between saying "I know there is no God", and saying "I don't know there is a God".

Altho I actually do feel that way (the first one); I just know I can't absolutely prove it, so I can't say it.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

That would be what I refer to as 'militant', or 'strong' atheism.

I dunno to me militant suggest violent or someone who takes action against it

Originally Posted by thegnome54

t's the difference between saying "I know there is no God", and saying "I don't know there is a God".

I would say that there is no god, I accept you cant prove there is no god but that does not give it any credibility at all so I guess I am one of the few who says for sure there is no god

It looks like this has turned into another hair splitting session with the term "atheist". I will put it this way. I believe in God about like I believe in Pinocchio. I can't prove that Pinocchio does not exist, and I won't say I know with absolutely 100% certainty that Pinocchio does not exist. However, I strongly believe that the idea is profoundly far fetched. That means it is truthful for me to say that I do not believe in Pinocchio. I do not see it as a toss up, and I am far from being in a position of neutrality. I am very opinionated on the existence of Pinocchio. I have a firm position even though I do not claim literally 100% certainty. I do not believe in Pinocchio. I have a very strong belief that he does not exist. That is how it works for me with God.

As for the Judeo-Christian God specifically, that is a very particular concept that contradicts itself, making it even more far fetched than the general idea of a God.

Ugh, the misinterpretation of Nietzsche... Read his books before you make a commentary on them from a second hand source. Nietzsche goes to great lengths to highlight the difference between Active (positive) Nihilism and Passive (negative) Nihilism. The former is the principle of creating meaning in your own life by destroying previous values and erecting new ones. The latter involves simply rejecting all ideals of meaning in a life but not replacing them with any new ones. The latter is one of the stages of existence that Nietzsche talks about, the Camel. He bears the weight of the society on his shoulders; an intellectual/moral Atlas. The active Nihilist is the "Blond Beast of Prey", the lion, that destroys values, and finally one is transformed into the Child when the old has been replaced by the new and we have a different perspective in which we interact with the world. Nihilism does not necessarily imply a philosophy of despair, that is a common misconception.

As for Nietzsche & Atheism... Some of the most pious individuals are Atheists, unwavering in their faith of reality.

I had trouble just getting thru your post, so I don't think I could actually get thru the original. I was going with the pop culture version of Nietsche, which is where all my philosophical knowledge comes from.