Why Is Hell So Easy?

[kaeraz]

Imagine for a second that you were born in a completely different place and had been raised in an entirely different religion. It stands to reason that you would, like you are now, follow that religion as faithfully as you follow your actual faith today. What I want to know is why God makes it so easy for some to get to heaven and for others it's, well, impossible. Why would the Christian God (if he were real and the one true God) send you to hell if you were raised your whole life to believe that Allah and the Koran was the true path to paradise? Wouldn't the creator of our species understand how impressionable humans are, especially when their raised from birth to believe something? What if you lived in a remote African tribe where you never had contact with the rest of the world? How can God or anybody justify sending that person to eternal damnation when they never even knew what the "true" religion was all about? Thoughts?

[Sornaensis]

Doncha love god? He's my favorite fictional character! Who knew someone who didn't exist could inspire the slaughter of billions!

[27]

I think the very idea is ridiculous. My church does not believe that you will be sent to hell simply for not believing in one religion or another. The very idea offends me. It's vastly more important to as good a life as you know how to than to merely belong to a Christian organization. I don't think I can say it any clearer than that.

[Sornaensis]

You're church has apparently misinterpreted the bible...

[27]

Think so? Give me the verses you think say that someone will be damned for not believing in Christ and I'll do my best to give you the Mormon perspective on them.

[Sornaensis]

Oh wait that's right you don't believe in the bible you believe in... The book of mormon I still want to know why Joseph Smith here could do some heavy Paeoties, write a book, and you believe it. Tell me. Nao.

[27]

Actually, we believe in the Bible too. But I'd prefer to keep this on topic. If you have questions about Mormonism post them in this thread. I'm desperate for questions.

[Sornaensis]

Okay then, may I direct you to one of the more famous verses? For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

[27]

"Whoever" dosn't mean "Only".

[Sornaensis]

What? Yes it does. Whoever believes excludes all who don't!

[27]

Even if it did, we believe that after death everyone will hear the truth and know the truth of the Gospel and have the chance to accept it. So there'd be no conflict with that verse (or any other).

[Sornaensis]

But where in the bible does it say that? Again-- you can't call a book holy and pick and choose and interject things that out of left field. That's worse than believing the rubbish in the first place!

[Soldier]

thats not what the christian church believes 27 there thought on it is that when the shit hits the fan or Judgement Day everyone will see that they were wrong and go to hell for it, on judgement day your fate will be sealed. or at least thats what they think.

[27]

Well Seis, We believe in the old testament, the new testament, and another testament of Jesus Christ. Who are you to tell me what I can and can't believe?

[Sornaensis]

You said you beleived them-- So where in any of them does it say that and are you aware of said contradiction?

[27]

You said you beleived them-- So where in any of them does it say that and are you aware of said contradiction? Maybe it's just because I get brain dead when I stay up later than I like but I couldn't understand your post. First, what do you mean by "them"? The Bible? If so, why would the Bible say I'm aware of a contradiction in theology? [Edit] Misread your post. See what I said about being brain dead? Anyway, I can find some verses when I get around to it. May not be tomorrow. Enlighten me on the contradiction part.

[AspirationRealized]

Here's a better question... why do people arguing for or against God? It'll lead to small advances on either side at best. Total conversion'll never happen.

[27]

Here's a better question... why do people arguing for or against God? It'll lead to small advances on either side at best. Total conversion'll never happen. It's thought provoking if nothing else. Everyone should be able to rationalize their beliefs (or lack there-of), at least to themselves. But personally, I like learning about other faiths, and trying to promote understanding and tolerance. Which are some of the only reasons I haven’t given up on R/S yet.

[♥Mark]

Total conversion'll never happen. Wrong

[AspirationRealized]

It's thought provoking if nothing else. Everyone should be able to rationalize their beliefs (or lack there-of), at least to themselves. But personally, I like learning about other faiths, and trying to promote understanding and tolerance. Which are some of the only reasons I haven’t given up on R/S yet. I think thats all well and good. As long as you're challenging eachother to observe the reaction afterwards... not to change their minds. 'Cause it seldom works.

[Soldier]

Posted by AspirationRealized Here's a better question... why do people arguing for or against God? It'll lead to small advances on either side at best. Total conversion'll never happen. are you saying whats the point of argueing? some christians do things that annoy the public alot, take abortion as much as I think killing a baby is wrong to certian people its annoying having the church attack them on the subject. heres one i found intersting in the paper today "a 11 year-old girl died yesterday because she was sick, the family deeply regilious prayed for the girl while she was sick instead of taking her to the docter." from the rest of the article the family could of easily saved thier daughters life but thinking god was going to heal their daughter they decided to keep the docter away. they pray while she gets worse and worse and than dies. the famliy says they did everything they should of done to save thier daughter. those parents might have well killed there daughter by trusting in god. if they had the common sense to bring her to a docter she'd be swinging on a swing set but alas shes dead thanks to them.

[27]

That's being discussed in another thread, Soldier.

[juroara]

shall not perish does not mean "OR ELSE I WILL PERSONALLY SEND YOU TO HELL" *sigh* mainstream Christianity is simply wrong God is not sending anyone to hell. rather people are not ascending into heaven. note I am not necessarily saying they go to hell, just saying they don't reach heaven. while mainstream Christianity teaches worship Jesus or burn - this is not what Jesus taught. "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus" Here we are being asked to carry the same mind of Christ. Not "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus" which is the 'new' version that has lost its meaning. Attitude and mind are not the same thing. 20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Within you does NOT mean above you in the clouds, in the sky, or some place unreachable. The fact that heaven is within you means there is no one that stand between you and heaven. Except Christ, but let me go on further Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. The breaking of the bread and wine is symbolic that Christ is in you. Google it yourself, theres a wealth a knowledge on it. Its called the Christ Consciousness, what Church doesn't tell you. 33 And with many such parables spake he the word unto them, as they were able to hear it. 34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples. Jesus gave a more generic teaching to the generic public who really weren't ready to hear. This generic teaching is what mainstream Christianity teaches. Great, now let me get to the point. This is the verse most used by mainstream Christianity to tell people either accept Jesus or burn in hell. "John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." But really, lets examine this, because it doesn't mention going to church and it doesn't mention hell. Jesus here is claiming that he IS the way, the truth and the life. And this way the truth and the life is what is necessary to reach heaven, or the Father, the source. Is this a calling to put Jesus on a pedestal call him savior, or something else? Perhaps, a calling to accept a state of being, or a state of consciousness? How about the Christ Mind? Rephrase this. "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes unto the Father except the way the truth and the life." Suddenly means something very different than placing anyone on a pedestal. Connect this back to the earlier quotes I gave you, how heaven is within you. Do you think this is meant to be taken literal, that is some where in you there is an organ and its heaven? Or that heaven, is a state of consciousness, which you first need the Christ Mind to achieve. So then the question is, is Jesus human, or God? The answer is both. And, its both for any human. Observe. 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own; but the Father who dwells in me does his works. [NRSV] 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; but if you do not, then believe me because of the works themselves. [NRSV] 20 On that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. [NRSV] When Jesus speaks about himself, saying I am this, I am that - he is actually referring to the Christ within him, that which unites him to God. He is not speaking about himself as a mere mortal human. Yet Jesus goes even further and tell us, that God is in us as well. Because if God is in Christ, and Christ in us, and us in Christ. Then God is in us as much as we are in God. The God Jesus taught is not a white bearded man in the sky - but an omnipresent God present in all people. Now we can go back to the verse used so often to tell people they are going to hell unless they accept Jesus. The meaning has changed completely, its not about 'believing' in a savior. But understanding that only through this higher consciousness, this Christ Mind can you know heaven. Why? Because heaven is not a place to begin with, it is a state of consciousness as well. realize what Jesus taught was very Buddhist, and not at all what Christianity teaches today. there are more verses I can pull up, but I gotta go to sleep!

[Sornaensis]

Jesus was a socialist-- Why does modern Christianity rest on capitalism? No wonder it failed.

[tkdyo]

actually, the catholic church also believes that if you were never exposed to the testemant of Jesus then you will not go to hell for not being Christian. edit, very interesting on the buddist take. I will read in to it