Thread: Skeptics...Ready To Re-Think "God"?

Please read these.

Earthquakes

Tornado's

The Sun

Earth

Evolution - A good read.

Apes

Humans

Atheism

Belief

Evidence

I hope they help out. Seriously, do read them, you'll learn a lot.

No, you fail.

Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf

You take the earth...take God out of the equation just for one moment...and just realize how amazing and mysterious this planet is... Tornadoes happen only in certain parts of the world, along with earthquakes... Why do earth quakes only happen on the west coast and not the east coast? or Tornadoes in the Midwest are the most common..

Because of climate and positioning of the tectonic plates of the earth...

Isnt it amazing...That as EXTREMELY HOT as the sun is...it is at a distance away from our planet, that it can keep us warm and give us a tan, but yet not burn us alive where we stand...Now is it by total Coincidence, that the earth and the sun were just "Magically" put at that distance....?? To me... No...but to skeptics, take a second to think about that..

Lets say that sometime in the future, we manage to muster the technology to fly out to other galaxies and star systems. And we, using our human mind, find a planet capable of supporting life. We land on the planet, colonize it and begin a life on it. It is also a safe distance away from its parent star, its also capable of supporting life. Yet "God" did not put us on that planet.

Do you honestly think that Earth is the only life capable planet out there?

Let me put it to you this way, the reason we exist on a planet capable of life is because its just that: Capable of life. Just like many other planets out there. You do realize if a planet wasn't in the "safe zone" that life wouldn't exist on it. So that said, its somehow surprising that life exists on a life capable planet?

No, fail. That is not evidence for God or the Bible in the least.

Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf

Along with the myth of Evolution...you can look at evolution two ways... Hypathedically if we did come from Apes... where did the apes come from?? Also.....If we came from Apes... How come Apes still arent producing Humans today??? Humans produce Humans... Dogs produce dogs... Cats produce Cats...But why is it, that If we supposibly came from Apes, that Apes still dont produce Human offspring?

Again, Fail.

You clearly do no understand the theory of evolution in the least. The idea that we came from Apes is a total misconception on the theory, thrown around by Christians trying to break it. We did not descend from Apes as we see in modern day. We descended from a species of primate, similar to apes that existed many eons ago. Just as modern day apes evolved from a species entirely different eons ago. We're in different families in the same species group: Primates.

Richard Dawkins addressed this question. Search for the video of the question that "Stumped" him. He actually answered this outright misconception you've posted.

If you were to take the time, and actually do research--honest in depth--research--you would find that there is more evidence (Factual evidence) supporting the Bible then disproving it

Take your own advice before posting outright fabrications and misconceptions that you're using to further your own misguided purpose.

People will believe in UFO's, the Lochness Monster, Bigfoot, or even Ghosts...But yet, they will not believe in GOD....and I know for a fact that, that alot of you reading this, have not seen over half of the things i listed above..but yet you still believe....

People may believe things that they don't see, when there is evidence to support its existence. I don't see air, but its there.

However, listing things like "Lochness Monster" or "Big Foot" isn't going to get you many votes considering most people here don't believe in such fairy tales either.

Let me ask you this.... Have you seen God? No....of course not! Then why not believe?

Let me ask you this.... Have you seen A Flying Spaghetti Monster? No....of course not! Then why not believe?

I'll keep my Faith in the Lord....thanks for making it stronger

Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf

I'll keep my Faith in the Lord....thanks for making it stronger

No problem

You know, if you really, truly did, have faith in the Lord. You wouldn't be afraid to read the points laid out for you, and wouldn't be afraid to counter them and argue them. Because if you really did have true faith in the Lord, then you would have good reason to show the presented as false.

So, all I'm seeing is someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, in Science or in the Sky Fairy they claim to have the utmost faith in. Clearly if you can't defend yourself in such a simple argument, your faith isn't as strong as you make it out to be.

Originally Posted by ExoByte

You know, if you really, truly did, have faith in the Lord. You wouldn't be afraid to read the points laid out for you, and wouldn't be afraid to counter them and argue them. Because if you really did have true faith in the Lord, then you would have good reason to show the presented as false.

So, all I'm seeing is someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, in Science or in the Sky Fairy they claim to have the utmost faith in. Clearly if you can't defend yourself in such a simple argument, your faith isn't as strong as you make it out to be.

I think he purposely said that to get such a response out of people like you did just then.

He's obviously unwilling to listen.

This post is just painful.

First, as exobyte said, we are here because the planet is capable of life. If there was only one "planet" in the entire universe, the fact that it was set up perfectly is indeed amazing. But with a virtually infinite amount of planets, the probability that at least one planet would support life is so high it is not surprising in the least.

And also, please learn about the theory of evolution. As exobyte said, your troubles with evolution are simply a lack of knowledge. As I've said countless times before, any fault percieved in evolution is simply a fault in someone's knowledge of the theory.

And anyways, I don't believe in god, nor ghosts, nor bigfoot, nor lochness monster, etc. I don't believe in the UFO "videos" or any stories people tell, but obviously they could exist. I believe there is life on other planets (to pretend otherwise is simply silly), and of course there is a chance that they can come here. But it is doubtful.

I kind of think your whole post is a joke because it has such stereotypical fallacies, generalizations, etc. Educate yourself please...

sorry Spirit but i think they have a point.

For the whole earthquakes and other geological events, well as they said you must look at how earth is formed. The tectonic plates and that, Earthquakes are from those slamming together. Unless you claim God causes them, in which case why does he cause such life destroying events?

Also life thrived and adapted here with the Sun at that distance. However there maybe another world far from the Sun way average temps of -170c with lakes of methane. If a life form, however simple, existed there. It would be adapted to those conditions. We will have to wait until extraterrestrial lifeforms are discovered to refute your opinion in that matter though( assuming the planet found has conditions humans can not survive on).

Evolution thing has been stated, we didn't come from the Apes you see at the Zoo( interesting you didn't know this as we learnt this is GCSE Biology( 14-16 at school...).

I don't believe in God or ghosts. I am pretty sure other races have vessels to travel through space, though i am highly doubtful any have visited us. I don't believe in Bigfoot or the Loch ness Monster, however they really aren't the same stretch as believing in God, they are just animals, fictional, but still normal creatures.


But since i don;t think your going to read any more posts... bye byes =)

Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf

The earth is amazing to say the least...

It's not.
Your argument has been castrated.

And yes, the word 'painful' is a very accurate description of this thread. Sometimes when I read things, I literally just cringe and can't do anything for 10 seconds. This was one such case.

Whatever we're paying for public education, it's not enough.

Whatever we're paying for public education, it's not enough.

Or it's too much...

Spiritofthewolf. I respect your beliefs, and am a Christian as well but you're quite mistaken with this post.

Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf

as a christian, I believe God made the Heaven's and the Earth... I myself have broken it down like this...

You take the earth...take God out of the equation just for one moment...and just realize how amazing and mysterious this planet is... Tornadoes happen only in certain parts of the world, along with earthquakes... Why do earth quakes only happen on the west coast and not the east coast? or Tornadoes in the Midwest are the most common..

The earth is amazing to say the least...

Tornados happen where they do because the conditions are right for them, on land, cold air from the north, warm air from the south, no mountains to prevent them from forming. Basic climatology there. As for earthquakes, they happen next to continental plates where the plates can slip, such as on the west coast.

Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf

But let me ask all your skeptics out there..

Isnt it amazing...That as EXTREMELY HOT as the sun is...it is at a distance away from our planet, that it can keep us warm and give us a tan, but yet not burn us alive where we stand...Now is it by total Coincidence, that the earth and the sun were just "Magically" put at that distance....?? To me... No...but to skeptics, take a second to think about that..

Life on earth is adapted to the distance we are from the sun. Life could form on another planet that was a different distance from it's star and it would be way to hot or cold for life that has formed on earth.

Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf

Along with the myth of Evolution...you can look at evolution two ways... Hypathedically if we did come from Apes... where did the apes come from?? Also.....If we came from Apes... How come Apes still arent producing Humans today??? Humans produce Humans... Dogs produce dogs... Cats produce Cats...But why is it, that If we supposibly came from Apes, that Apes still dont produce Human offspring?

Evolution doesn't say that we come from modern apes but from ancient ape-like ancestors. Evolution doesn’t say that an ape will just give birth to a human. Evolution happens over millions of years. Small changes happen to individual organisms which may help or hurt an organisms survival. If it helps that organism they can pass of their genes. Over time organisms can develop into entirely new species. Apes came from a primate species, which came from a more primitive species, and so on until you get to the common ancestor of all living things. You should read up on evolution if only to understand it before you argue about it.

Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf

If you were to take the time, and actually do research--honest in depth--research--you would find that there is more evidence (Factual evidence) supporting the Bible then disproving it

A good book is called "A Case For Christ" by Lee Strobel..

An Atheist who set out to DISPROVE that Jesus ever walked this earth, and that the bible was a bunch of hog-wash. In his journey and hardcore research, he actually became a believer himself...He stated in his book, that there is just too much evidence that supports Jesus and the bible....

I also have myself felt the presence of the Holy Spirit...alot of you think I am crazy, but that is okay..For those who have felt the Holy Spirit, they know what I am talking about.. I have also read books and articles on people who died..and either seen Heaven, or Hell...How would you explain away those claims?

People will believe in UFO's, the Lochness Monster, Bigfoot, or even Ghosts...But yet, they will not believe in GOD....and I know for a fact that, that alot of you reading this, have not seen over half of the things i listed above..but yet you still believe....

Let me ask you this.... Have you seen God? No....of course not! Then why not believe?

God Bless You All

My message was not attended to cause FLAIR UP amongst you all..

I believe in Christ and in the Bible as well, but I don't feel like I have to change the laws of science to be a good Christian.

Originally Posted by R.D.735

Or it's too much...

No, it's definitely not enough.

I agree that people who actually have "faith" in their "lord" would be knowledgeable enough to at least attempt to make counterarguments, to stand up to the opposition.

That, or he just falls into the category of really, really, really unintelligent christians.

I am sick and tired of these people not being able to stand up to opposition.

Epic disappointment.

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

I am sick and tired of these people not being able to stand up to opposition.

If they listened to anyone outside of their choir, do you really think they could possibly be this ignorant by now?

The main problem with most of the ideas in your opening post, Spirit, is that you aren't quite clear on the cause and effect aspects of the physiology of the Earth and solar system.

It is because there are certain factors affecting the winds and weather over certain parts of the earth, that tornadoes only form in certain areas, or more-so than in others. Tornadoes are byproducts of these factors. The factors themselves aren't byproducts of a need for tornadoes to be in certain areas.

Also, we are byproducts of our planet being a certain distance from the sun. The sun (so as far as we know) wasn't placed where it was so that we could be formed, and our earth wasn't placed where it was so that we (humans) could be formed. We were simply formed because of that distance and, (IMO) many of us feel somehow "lucky" because, out of all of the planets out there, we happened to be on the one that has the conditions for harboring life. It is only because there is no other reference point than Earth (or any other life-harboring planets out there) that we feel this way.

I just realized how hard it is to describe what I'm trying to say in the previous paragraph. Heh. As we seem to be the only conscious beings in this tiny corner of the universe, it's not all that spectacular that we just "happen" to be on the one planet that harbors life. It's kind of like being the only person running a race and being surprised that you came in first, if that analogy makes any sense.

[Edit: Oh, and I was cruising around on StumbleUpon last night and found an awesome video that demonstrates how evolution works. I'll post a thread on it in just a sec. You might want to check it out.]

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

I just realized how hard it is to describe what I'm trying to say in the previous paragraph. Heh. As we seem to be the only conscious beings in this tiny corner of the universe, it's not all that spectacular that we just "happen" to be on the one planet that harbors life. It's kind of like being the only person running a race and being surprised that you came in first, if that analogy makes any sense.

Lol, that made me laugh so hard.

Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf

as a christian, I believe God made the Heaven's and the Earth... I myself have broken it down like this...

You take the earth...take God out of the equation just for one moment...and just realize how amazing and mysterious this planet is... Tornadoes happen only in certain parts of the world, along with earthquakes... Why do earth quakes only happen on the west coast and not the east coast? or Tornadoes in the Midwest are the most common..

The earth is amazing to say the least...

But let me ask all your skeptics out there..

Isnt it amazing...That as EXTREMELY HOT as the sun is...it is at a distance away from our planet, that it can keep us warm and give us a tan, but yet not burn us alive where we stand...Now is it by total Coincidence, that the earth and the sun were just "Magically" put at that distance....?? To me... No...but to skeptics, take a second to think about that..

Along with the myth of Evolution...you can look at evolution two ways... Hypathedically if we did come from Apes... where did the apes come from?? Also.....If we came from Apes... How come Apes still arent producing Humans today??? Humans produce Humans... Dogs produce dogs... Cats produce Cats...But why is it, that If we supposibly came from Apes, that Apes still dont produce Human offspring?

If you were to take the time, and actually do research--honest in depth--research--you would find that there is more evidence (Factual evidence) supporting the Bible then disproving it

A good book is called "A Case For Christ" by Lee Strobel..

An Atheist who set out to DISPROVE that Jesus ever walked this earth, and that the bible was a bunch of hog-wash. In his journey and hardcore research, he actually became a believer himself...He stated in his book, that there is just too much evidence that supports Jesus and the bible....

I also have myself felt the presence of the Holy Spirit...alot of you think I am crazy, but that is okay..For those who have felt the Holy Spirit, they know what I am talking about.. I have also read books and articles on people who died..and either seen Heaven, or Hell...How would you explain away those claims?

People will believe in UFO's, the Lochness Monster, Bigfoot, or even Ghosts...But yet, they will not believe in GOD....and I know for a fact that, that alot of you reading this, have not seen over half of the things i listed above..but yet you still believe....

Let me ask you this.... Have you seen God? No....of course not! Then why not believe?

God Bless You All

My message was not attended to cause FLAIR UP amongst you all..

Aren't you the kid who made a huge deal over making out with a DC?

Your entire argument can be boiled down to "I don't know how the world works, therefore god." As a believer in god (though not a christian one exactly) I take personal offense to this. It is possible to hold spiritual beliefs that are consistent with current scientific evidence, assuming that you are intelligent enough to read and understand the evidence. Arguments like this give the false impression that all theists are blithering idiots with their heads buried in the sand, incapable of holding logical beliefs.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Arguments like this give the false impression that all theists are blithering idiots with their heads buried in the sand, incapable of holding logical beliefs.

Oh man, harsh.

I think people like him, who seem to have pride in their ignorance, make up a minority. Unfortunately, it's like a 70% minority. Bible belt, anyone?

Don't worry Xaqaria, we know you aren't in the same category as spirit.

Spirit, I've noticed you've shied away from the R/S forum for quite a while and then this post all of a sudden pops up. It is obvious you are a brainwashed kid who was indoctrinated by fundie parents who would be scared to death for you to even contemplate the evidence of the "dark side".

I understand you not knowing about evolution if you live in the bible belt. I took biology in high school and college and neither of them even brought up the theory of evolution the whole semester. They're afraid to. But seriously, that had to be the most ignorant and blatantly stupid post about evolution I've ever read on this forum. PLEASE educate yourself; one hour of reading something other than Answers in Genesis who blatantly lie about evolution to push their agenda.

And Lee Strobel's book was NOT convincing AT ALL. I've read The Case for Christ and The Case for Faith. The only thing that was halfway decent in the former was the evidence for an empty tomb; the rest was a bunch of dribble. Strobel was not an atheist; he was on the fence and looking for a way to believe in Christianity while calling himself an atheist. He found it and made a book about it. And The Case for Faith was terrible and utterly unconvincing in its entirety. I've noticed that The Case for Christ is always the book toted to be the ultimate response to atheists and if that is seriously the best you can do then I will without hesitation say that your side is losing the apologetics fight by a landslide.

As a Christian myself, I too cringe when I read things like this. However, I understand why this happens.

First of all, this is more typical of the fundamentalist movement than most of Christianity.

Secondly this happens because the fundamentalists put their faith in the perfect, innerancy of scripture, divinely inspired and holy. With this as a starting point, ANYTHING that opposes their interpretation (which varies greatly), is simply wrong.

Thirdly, as a result of this perspective, there is a lack of emphasis on the higher education that others see so valuable. There exists a lack of trust in general, in the process of higher learning. The only thing that matters in the end, is scripture. It is not that these people are not intelligent!! It is that they are indoctrinated into, and limited by there "blind faith".

I believe faith is crucial and share the basic beliefs. But like many many other Christians, I realize (and have studied deeply) the important cultural, historical, linguistic and contextual background of the scriptures and don't get lost in this sort of literalism. It is a common trap that manifests its detrimental effects in places like this thread...where the intentions were genuine, sincere and caring - but the results backfire.

I notice that all of SoW's points were quite unoriginal as well. It's almost as if there's a prescribed laundry list of objections that must be adhered to. But you'd really do much better to wing it as those items are outdated as they are completely flawed.

In Europe, a study by the Tearfund Organization found:

Those whose education ended at 15 years-old = 65% believe in god
Those whose education ended between 16-19 = 49% believe in god
Those whose education ended at 20+ = 45% believe in god

Rest here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T27kB....blogspot.com/