Thread: Who created God?

Um...define choose? Do you mean does physics determine whether I want to die or live. Then yes, physics determines that. Well..lets be very specific here, first when I say physics, I do not mean that physics makes decisions. Now to move on. More specifically it would be body chemistry/anatomy and physiology. It doesn't choose, it determines what is chosen.

Also at a very basic level yes, physics does determine when you die just because of aging and disease and wounds.

So if a person picks up a Gun and shot's himself in the head, he dies then would this be considered an act of physics?

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

So if a person picks up a Gun and shot's himself in the head, he dies then would this be considered an act of physics?

It was determined by physics, yes. Human beings are the product of physics...or rather what physics represents.

Hmmmmm. Interesting indeed.

So if someone kills another person for no reason then that's also an act of physics?

So if a person picks up a Gun and shot's himself in the head, he dies then would this be considered an act of physics?

Since everything is governed by the laws of physics at it's most basic level, yes.

Of course, consciousness and many other factors would make the decision extremely complicated, not just "a few ions went through some nerve channels and picked up a few electrons".

Life is of such complexity that trying to use laws of physics to explain, whilst in theory completely possible, would be highly impractical and complicated. But it still obeying those laws.

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

Hmmmmm. Interesting indeed.

So if someone kills another person for no reason then that's also an act of physics?

There is always a reason. For example, the odds are if a person picks up a gun and shoots someone without a personal reason, it is because they are insane, a direct result of something extremely abnormal in the brain. I wont say "wrong" in the brain since there is no "model" brain, though there is a general one which we consider to be best.

If they do it for personal reasons, then it is because of the way that their brain is physically predisposed to act.

When I say model I mean model in the same way that supermodels are models. Model in the way as exemplary, or to strive to be.

Originally Posted by Photolysis

Of course, consciousness and many other factors would make the decision extremely complicated, not just "a few ions went through some nerve channels and picked up a few electrons".

How can a conscious decision incorporate the laws of physics? Physics being the deciding factor what's the purpose of a conscious decision?

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

How can a conscious decision incorporate the laws of physics? Physics being the deciding factor what's the purpose of a conscious decision?

Because consciousness is output of physics. Consciousness doesn't have a purpose, it is the way it is. It is OBVIOUS that consciousness is directly related to physics because of the fact that when you mess with the brain you can cause conscious changes and stimulation.

That's funny becaues consciousness seems to correlate feelings also. How does physics incorporate ones feelings? If it does.

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

That's funny becaues consciousness seems to correlate feelings also. How does physics incorporate ones feelings? If it does.

Lol are you serious? Feelings are emotions, which are (obviously) the result of actions in the brain. There is a book called mapping the mind by...I think it was Rita Carter. You should read it, it might help you understand the relationship between the brain and consciousness. Limbic system, early ancestral brain, and chemicals.

I saw that Motivational-atheists poster. And I want to ask this. If evil didn't exist. Good wouldn't either. That would be mundane. If I was god. I wouldn't be mundane.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

I saw that Motivational-atheists poster. And I want to ask this. If evil didn't exist. Good wouldn't either. That would be mundane. If I was god. I wouldn't be mundane.

Oh, wow, hey, that's a new one. No one's ever said that before. Thanks for being so insightful and original. Excuse me, I have to go buy a Bible.

Originally Posted by Mark75

Oh, wow, hey, that's a new one. No one's ever said that before. Thanks for being so insightful and original. Excuse me, I have to go buy a Bible.

"My goodness, these sarcasm levels are off the charts"!

Originally Posted by psychology student

"My goodness, these sarcasm levels are off the charts"!

That's as scientific as your posts will ever get, Dropout.

Originally Posted by Mark75

That's as scientific as your posts will ever get, Dropout.

I still don't like that nickname; moreover, the post was terribly funny, not scientific.

Psychology student don't listen to him. That was funny.

It was funny when I saw it on The Simpsons.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Psychology student don't listen to him. That was funny.

Yes, it was.

Originally Posted by Mark75

It was funny when I saw it on The Simpsons.

You got me. Well done Mark.

You got me. Well done Mark.

lol

Originally Posted by Sandform

There is a book called mapping the mind by...I think it was Rita Carter.

OOOWOW. Not another deja vu. I heard about this book yesterday. Now I come to DV and it is mentioned. LOL these things always seem to happen. I remember when I watched Clockwork Orange and it was mentioned in like 3 places on the same day.

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Ne-yo, everything you "choose" is the result of complex reactions in your brain. You only "choose" so because the result of such reactions was to make you do that thing. Everything that happens o nthe brain follows the physics' laws, and does, therefore, abide by some rules. The first of them being action and reaction. On a simplist level, let's make an example:

You touch a lit fire, and feel pain. Of course you must know that the signal for pain is sent to the brain on physico-chemical reactions, and therefore follows rules. When the information of pain gets to the brain, it is prompted to do something about it. Why? Because you've learnt/been biologically selected to do it. Then, for an action, you take your hand out of the fire. See, now, how everything that happened here is the result of physical reactions. Everything you think (and therefore everything you "choose") is determined that way.

Finally, things such as emotions and consciousness, as you brought up, are also a result of such reactions (though complex ones).

For there to be free will, there would have to be somehting which isn't subject to the laws of physics, but one that is still capable of taking action over physical matter. A soul, in simple terms. When you defend free-will, you defend the existence of a soul. Now, I do not know if you believe that or not, but I'll be proactive and say souls are inexistant

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On a sidenote to psychology student:

Don't say you aren't being a bitch.

(CAUTION! Irony)

Originally Posted by Kromoh

OOOWOW. Not another deja vu. I heard about this book yesterday. Now I come to DV and it is mentioned. LOL these things always seem to happen. I remember when I watched Clockwork Orange and it was mentioned in like 3 places on the same day.

----

Ne-yo, everything you "choose" is the result of complex reactions in your brain. You only "choose" so because the result of such reactions was to make you do that thing. Everything that happens o nthe brain follows the physics' laws, and does, therefore, abide by some rules. The first of them being action and reaction. On a simplist level, let's make an example:

You touch a lit fire, and feel pain. Of course you must know that the signal for pain is sent to the brain on physico-chemical reactions, and therefore follows rules. When the information of pain gets to the brain, it is prompted to do something about it. Why? Because you've learnt/been biologically selected to do it. Then, for an action, you take your hand out of the fire. See, now, how everything that happened here is the result of physical reactions. Everything you think (and therefore everything you "choose") is determined that way.

Finally, things such as emotions and consciousness, as you brought up, are also a result of such reactions (though complex ones).

For there to be free will, there would have to be somehting which isn't subject to the laws of physics, but one that is still capable of taking action over physical matter. A soul, in simple terms. When you defend free-will, you defend the existence of a soul. Now, I do not know if you believe that or not, but I'll be proactive and say souls are inexistant

----

On a sidenote to psychology student:

Don't say you aren't being a bitch.

I love the simplicity of your explanation, so that it is easily understandable; that is what you were going for right?

Let me give a list of what I loved about that explanation:

First of all I love the word:

Originally Posted by Kromoh

physico

Originally Posted by Kromoh

You touch a lit fire

Is there any other kind?

Originally Posted by Kromoh

On a simplist level, let's make an example

The gods of grammar and spelling doth their hats to you.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

When the information of pain gets to the brain, it is prompted to do something about it

I love two things about this sentence: "the information of pain"; whatever the hell that is? Also, I love how you avoid what happens to "the information of pain" once it reaches the brain, with the phrase "it is prompted to do something about it". You really have this skill of keeping things simple, and lucid so that others may learn.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

See, now, how everything that happened here is the result of physical reactions.

Oh yes, its so clear now.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

Finally, things such as emotions and consciousness, as you brought up, are also a result of such reactions (though complex ones).

"Complex ones", which I observe that you cunningly leave out; what brilliance.

Thank you for that most excellent explanation of determinism. After this, I severly doubt that doubters have a leg to stand on.




On a serious note: it is not a viable to deny free-will in the world we live in, it will invent a world of nihilism and zero-responsibility. Even if it is scientifically correct to do so.

Originally Posted by psychology student

On a serious note: it is not a viable to deny free-will in the world we live in, it will invent a world of nihilism and zero-responsibility. Even if it is scientifically correct to do so.

Good stuff Psychology Student , I couldn't agree with you more. Thank you, finally some intelligence arrived in this thread.

Originally Posted by ShadowNightWing

Good stuff Psychology Student , I couldn't agree with you more. Thank you, finally some intelligence arrived in this thread.

Well good.

Then all the people who don't deserve life will die from being lazy idiots who don't understand what "no free will" means.

That will certainly bring true intelligence to our race.

Oh how I wish English were my first language. See that little "Brazil" to the left? It's true.

Your post would have been more constructive if it weren't so damn cynical.

And I can still see a bitch.


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Concerning your serious note (omg a serious note from yours?), saying people cannot handle the truth doesn't justify things. Ignorance is bliss, right? -.- There is not free-will and that's what we're discussing here, no matter if people'd be better off believing it or not.