I want to believe in god!

[Sornaensis]

I have heard this several times. This statement doesn't make any sense and anyone who says it should be locked away in a mental ward in a straight jacket. Your thoughts?

[really]

I have heard this several times. This statement doesn't make any sense and anyone who says it should be locked away in a mental ward in a straight jacket. Your thoughts? http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=70511

[Maeni]

I have heard this several times. This statement doesn't make any sense and anyone who says it should be locked away in a mental ward in a straight jacket. Your thoughts? Yes it does. The idea of a God watching over us, having a grand plan, sounds really nice. And if it was true, then everything that was bad would actually not be bad, but just part of the grand plan. But I don't think that's how things work. Hence, I would love it if God actually existed, but I don't think so.

[Unelias]

Yes it does. The idea of a God watching over us, having a grand plan, sounds really nice. And if it was true, then everything that was bad would actually not be bad, but just part of the grand plan. But I don't think that's how things work. Hence, I would love it if God actually existed, but I don't think so. That's sounds like cheap way to justify bad things because they are part of God's plan. either way, that plan seems more like chaos than a plan that has been thought out well. Religion is mostly used to justify actions though.

[Howie]

I have heard this several times. This statement doesn't make any sense and anyone who says it should be locked away in a mental ward in a straight jacket. Your thoughts? Why do you think that it makes no sense?

[petersonad]

God is good, God is great. Amen God loves everyone and everyone loves God. That's why God gives His all to everyone. Jesus is not God, Jesus is praised as God because he secretly wanted to have sex with Joseph. Joseph was secretly God, and God was secretly wanted to have sex with Joseph, and Joseph wanted to have sex with Jesus.

[dylanshmai]

Believing in God would sure be a watershed moment, but it doesn't just "happen", its a slow process, and ultimately one chooses to believe in it because they are scared, or they need the comfort of other people who are just as scared as you. I'm sure it has its cons too though.

[dylanshmai]

God is good, God is great. Amen God loves everyone and everyone loves God. That's why God gives His all to everyone. Jesus is not God, Jesus is praised as God because he secretly wanted to have sex with Joseph. Joseph was secretly God, and God was secretly wanted to have sex with Joseph, and Joseph wanted to have sex with Jesus. Sounds like god wants to fuck everyone.

[Sandform]

I wish there were a god that actually cares about its creation and tries to help us, I don't want to believe in one just because I wish there was one. If there were one I wouldn't need to believe in him, I would know he exists because it would be evident.

[firat]

I wish there were a god that actually cares about its creation and tries to help us Please explain

[dylanshmai]

what about the economic crisis? or the corruption? one guy stole 50 billion dollars from the Wall Street and no one is sure how he is going to pay it back. Global Warming. Poverty, violence, wars, religions which are transforming nations to their rules, bigotry, pollution, thousands of warheads and some missing, what about people's ideals? How could anyone think strait with the kind of world we are living in where the minimum wage should be raised at least 5 more dollars, how we are flushed with ad after ad and loads of crap that comes out of the TV?

[firat]

what about the economic crisis? or the corruption? one guy stole 50 billion dollars from the Wall Street and no one is sure how he is going to pay it back. Global Warming. Poverty, violence, wars, religions which are transforming nations to their rules, bigotry, pollution, thousands of warheads and some missing, what about people's ideals? How could anyone think strait with the kind of world we are living in where the minimum wage should be raised at least 5 more dollars, how we are flushed with ad after ad and loads of crap that comes out of the TV? - All of the things you listed are believed to be caused by people. - Death is a natural part of universe maybe it wasn't supposed to be sad, creatures had no problem chewing their own children until they developped cognition. - Pain and frustration is an evolutionary necessity. - Death is needed to balance population. Briefly; encephalization showed up, we screwed big time and to make omelette you need to break few egss.

[Unelias]

- All of the things you listed are believed to be caused by people. - Death is a natural part of universe maybe it wasn't supposed to be sad, creatures had no problem chewing their own children until they developped cognition. - Pain and frustration is an evolutionary necessity. - Death is needed to balance population. Briefly; encephalization showed up, we screwed big time and to make omelette you need to break few egss. Maybe he was referring that if there was a God that cared he wouldn't let us do those things because by doing those we support the other company down stairs? Death is needed to balance population, but is there really a reason for people to die, be killed and murdered in such horrible ways like they do?

[firat]

Death is needed to balance population, but is there really a reason for people to die, be killed and murdered in such horrible ways like they do? Ask this to people who kill and murder other people in such horrible ways like they do. I personally think, nobody should be killed/sentenced to death or be forced to suffer physical pain NO MATTER what they did/do/are doing/will do. I don't offer a solution though.

[Unelias]

Ask this to people who kill and murder other people in such horrible ways like they do. I personally think, nobody should be killed/sentenced to death or be forced to suffer physical pain NO MATTER what they did/do/are doing/will do. I don't offer a solution though. Asking them won't help us with the original problem though.

[Sandform]

Please explain I thought the rest of my post did. If there were a super powerful being that actually cared about that which it created, then there would be no suffering, or at least the suffering would be minimal. So, I wish there were a God. I don't want to "believe" in one if there isn't, and it is obvious that there is no kind or caring god.

[Unelias]

I thought the rest of my post did. If there were a super powerful being that actually cared about that which it created, then there would be no suffering, or at least the suffering would be minimal. So, I wish there were a God. I don't want to "believe" in one if there isn't, and it is obvious that there is no kind or caring god. or maybe this is just one of those great ways separate those who are worthy to enter the gates of paradise and those who fall into oblivion. I too, feel the concept of kind God hard to think of. Somehow I like to think that if gods exist, they are very much like they are described i.e in Greek mythology. Just like humans, but a lot more stronger. They feel same feelings as we do and act in a ways that we do.

[Sandform]

or maybe this is just one of those great ways separate those who are worthy to enter the gates of paradise and those who fall into oblivion. I too, feel the concept of kind God hard to think of. Somehow I like to think that if gods exist, they are very much like they are described i.e in Greek mythology. Just like humans, but a lot more stronger. They feel same feelings as we do and act in a ways that we do. The beings you describe are nothing like a being worthy of being called God. Super powered humans? There is nothing godly about that. Even I, a human, would use my powers better than the beings you describe. I would make a better God than those gods if I had the power. The only thing you could possibly say is that there are so many other things they have to take care of that they don't have time to worry about us. A truly competent God wouldn't have such things as "paradise" and "oblivion" as counterparts. It would simply have a place where everyone is safe, and capable of pursuing happiness, without fear of evil people or disastrous things. Even evil people, if all people live in safety, may pursue happiness if they are not allowed to fulfill their detrimental desires and are forced to find other ways to find happiness. I find nothing about the concept of a competent god hard to understand. I do however find it hard to believe that such a being exists, when I can see the world around me.

[Unelias]

Well I don't find concept of this god you speak of very familiar. I mean, that if there are gods they are "super-powered humans" at their best. For me a being called god is nothing more than power to change things, it doesn't include anything like perfection, higher moral ground or "divine grace". It is just a being that has more power than any human and therefore higher than a human. That being wouldn't be any different than human unless it had its power over humans. I am interested in the things you speak of though. "Even I, a human, would use my powers better than the beings you describe" I presume you would, depending your personality. But tell me what do you mean "better"? Better for the sake of mankind? I don't see any reason why a god should be very concerned about their worshipers unless they should cease to dissappear without constant worship. As you said, they probably have better things to do that watch over us. I would have if I were a deity. Again, I am greatly interested what is taking their attention, if it is not us? About paradise and oblivion, I don't personally believe in such things. I was just trying to refer the very cliche idea that everything bad happens because God wants to test the worthy. Is forcing a people to find happiness through ways that does not meet with their inner desires happiness? I don't know.

[Matthewlovesammy]

The sentance does make sense cos its good to want to believe. Someone may also say that if they can't bring themselves to, but are intrested to swallow that idea. I actually thought this would be a topic about how the author wants to believe in God, but that's not the case.

[Sandform]

Well I don't find concept of this god you speak of very familiar. I mean, that if there are gods they are "super-powered humans" at their best. For me a being called god is nothing more than power to change things, it doesn't include anything like perfection, higher moral ground or "divine grace". It is just a being that has more power than any human and therefore higher than a human. That being wouldn't be any different than human unless it had its power over humans. I am interested in the things you speak of though. "Even I, a human, would use my powers better than the beings you describe" I presume you would, depending your personality. But tell me what do you mean "better"? Better for the sake of mankind? I don't see any reason why a god should be very concerned about their worshipers unless they should cease to dissappear without constant worship. As you said, they probably have better things to do that watch over us. I would have if I were a deity. Again, I am greatly interested what is taking their attention, if it is not us? About paradise and oblivion, I don't personally believe in such things. I was just trying to refer the very cliche idea that everything bad happens because God wants to test the worthy. Is forcing a people to find happiness through ways that does not meet with their inner desires happiness? I don't know. As a super being, you could let them carry out whatever crazy fantasies they want, without hurting beings that actually have thought. If a person really "needed" to murder, then he could do it to things that don't actually exist. Like video games. I wouldn't care one lick if people worshiped me, it is about the fact that they are living beings and have thoughts. If I had the power, not only would I save humans from the tortures of life, I would save all thinking life. You also seem to think that "watching over us" would need to be a constant thing. As an all powerful being you could easily set up rules that would make it so that beings are safe without even having to be there. Constant supervision would not be necessary. The main theory behind a "god" is that he have to be the most intelligent being ever to exist, because one of the main criteria for godhood, in modern times at least, is creation of the universe. To be a being intelligent enough to create a universe, you would have to be intelligent enough to understand that whatever rights to happiness you have, life that is created in that universe has the same right, and you are the one impinging on these rights if you do not grant them, since you are the creator of the universe. Also, from what you've said it would seem that, to you, an alien race with superior capabilities should be considered gods to us. And we to all animals beneath us.

[Unelias]

I wouldn't care one lick if people worshiped me, it is about the fact that they are living beings and have thoughts. If I had the power, not only would I save humans from the tortures of life, I would save all thinking life. You also seem to think that "watching over us" would need to be a constant thing. As an all powerful being you could easily set up rules that would make it so that beings are safe without even having to be there. Constant supervision would not be necessary. universe has the same right, and you are the one impinging on these rights if you do not grant them, since you are the creator of the universe. . That is very kind of you that you seem not to be so selfless but if you were a god and you should constantly, millenia after millenia strive to help mankind move to better, I wonder what would happen. Also, great power can easily dim all the great morals. Many mortal man have declared themselves a God because they had power to decide who lives and who doesn't. ( Not that they were sane in the first place, before they got the power) Also the watching part is true. Again if we accept the supreme being thing. But as you said. Watching how this world rambles on, its hard to believe there would be a kind, omnipotent god As a super being, you could let them carry out whatever crazy fantasies they want, without hurting beings that actually have thought. If a person really "needed" to murder, then he could do it to things that don't actually exist. Like video games. Hmm I appreciate the benelovent concept behind this idea. But I doubt that a person who wants to murder is satisfied for a video game. But of course if we think this super being truly omnipotent ( as many religions see their main deity) it would be easy to do. The main theory behind a "god" is that he have to be the most intelligent being ever to exist, because one of the main criteria for godhood, in modern times at least, is creation of the universe. To be a being intelligent enough to create a universe, you would have to be intelligent enough to understand that whatever rights to happiness you have, life that is created in that universe has the same right, and you are the one impinging on these rights if you do not grant them, since you are the creator of the universe. That is true if we accept the fact that God has created the universe. There are however many gods in different beliefs who haven't created the world or the creator god has been destroyed / disappeared after the creation, leaving the stage to other gods. Or maybe God has lost major chunk of his powers after he strained himself in creation of the world. hmm.. I started to ponder "the intelligent enough to create a universe" part. That is also true if we accept the belief that the creator God planned and created everything. Again, there are different approaches. I.e if the universum created a being that later was strong enough to craft planets and life? What if the whole universum was created from the force that exploded when a god was somehow born? What if this God isn't omnipotent and can only affect to our planet Also, from what you've said it would seem that, to you, an alien race with superior capabilities should be considered gods to us. And we to all animals beneath us. An alien race appears as burning light figure and human like creatures with white wings and flaming swords descending from the heavens in flash of light. They have power to kill and heal humans, shatter mountains and create life with their smile. Many would think them as God and his angels who have come to earth if nobody tells them they are actually alien visitors from galaxy around the corner who just happen to look like that and have powers like that. And yes, you got the point right, except *I* prolly wouldn't call them gods. But they would have a quite god like status. They could rule us if they wanted, the same way we rule the animals and other humans "below" us. Is there other reason to think that animals are below us than that we seem to think that we are stronger, more intelligent and more capable than animals? Is there any other reason to think we are below gods than that they are more capable than we?

[Sandform]

And yes, you got the point right, except *I* prolly wouldn't call them gods. But they would have a quite god like status. They could rule us if they wanted, the same way we rule the animals and other humans "below" us. Is there other reason to think that animals are below us than that we seem to think that we are stronger, more intelligent and more capable than animals? Is there any other reason to think we are below gods than that they are more capable than we? I have never thought that, even if a god existed, I would be "below them." Animals are no more "below" humans than humans are to other humans. We have control over animals, but we are not "above" them. I believe it is morally acceptable for humans to do what we do to animals, to an extent, because I extend the same rights to the animals over us. If an animal can some how find a way to eat me, I'm not going to hold it against them. It is the mental faculties of a God that make it a god, not its power, imo. If one of our mentaly retarded people on Earth somehow had magical powers and could do amazing stuff, would we regard him to be a god? You see, the argument is now Unelias thinks that god means this, and Sandform thinks that god means this. In order for me to agree with you, that gods would exist with X traits, I would have to first agree that a being with X traits are worthy of being called God.

[Unelias]

I have never thought that, even if a god existed, I would be "below them." Animals are no more "below" humans than humans are to other humans. We have control over animals, but we are not "above" them. We would be below them in the sake of what they can do to us. Quite helpless if they wanted to end our existence, but of course that is not all as you agree too. Through that we get to my exact point. I wouldn't follow a dictator like Stalin or Hitler as my leader only because they have power to end my existence or to control most of my life or because they give me hollow words of riches and power. Nor did all the people living under their rule. This is where we get to my main dilemma with possible gods. To acknowledge someone's rule and to follow are two separate things. For me following a god and moral statements he represents are no different than following a mortal human and his ideology. Even if i.e the God Christians worship appears before me, I wouldn't convert to Christian. Not at least if he is like the Bible and his children tell he is. Maybe if we had a cup of tea and talked things over I might. Big maybe. It is the mental faculties of a God that make it a god, not its power, imo. If one of our mentaly retarded people on Earth somehow had magical powers and could do amazing stuff, would we regard him to be a god? If one is as arrogant as a god and can slay others like a god, who can really say he is not one? Since it seems most of the people hold the title "god" as highest possible. There is nothing behind him. So if someone absorbed all the ideas that god consists, yes he would be a god. In your example, he would be a mortal who ascended to godhood. I believe I know and understand what you mean by mental faculities, but for me there is no such things for god. What would be that kind of mental traits that makes one god? Or other traits maybe? You see, the argument is now Unelias thinks that god means this, and Sandform thinks that god means this. In order for me to agree with you, that gods would exist with X traits, I would have to first agree that a being with X traits are worthy of being called God. Well we can keep talking and enlighten each other I am sorry if you take this as argumentation I would call this converstation. A very interesting one, if I may add. It might be because I am not native english speaker you might get that idea. I still find very unfamiliar the idea of "worthy of being called God". Too bad that we probably won't never talk this in the way you point because we share so different approach on the definitions.

[Sandform]

We would be below them in the sake of what they can do to us. Quite helpless if they wanted to end our existence, but of course that is not all as you agree too. Through that we get to my exact point. I wouldn't follow a dictator like Stalin or Hitler as my leader only because they have power to end my existence or to control most of my life or because they give me hollow words of riches and power. Nor did all the people living under their rule. This is where we get to my main dilemma with possible gods. To acknowledge someone's rule and to follow are two separate things. For me following a god and moral statements he represents are no different than following a mortal human and his ideology. Even if i.e the God Christians worship appears before me, I wouldn't convert to Christian. Not at least if he is like the Bible and his children tell he is. Maybe if we had a cup of tea and talked things over I might. Big maybe. If one is as arrogant as a god and can slay others like a god, who can really say he is not one? Since it seems most of the people hold the title "god" as highest possible. There is nothing behind him. So if someone absorbed all the ideas that god consists, yes he would be a god. In your example, he would be a mortal who ascended to godhood. I believe I know and understand what you mean by mental faculities, but for me there is no such things for god. What would be that kind of mental traits that makes one god? Or other traits maybe? Well we can keep talking and enlighten each other I am sorry if you take this as argumentation I would call this converstation. A very interesting one, if I may add. It might be because I am not native english speaker you might get that idea. I still find very unfamiliar the idea of "worthy of being called God". Too bad that we probably won't never talk this in the way you point because we share so different approach on the definitions. ~skips over most of what Un said. In order to be called God, by my standards, you have to be competent. You also have to be powerful, but it is "God = Powerful AND competent." If god were a fool, he would not be competent. If god does not see that he has the obligation to do what is kind for sentient beings, then he is not mentally competent, then he does not have the right to claim the title God.