Christians, hell is not real.

[Idolfan]

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/ifhellisreal.htm http://www.thercg.org/books/ttah.htm...FQtbQgodVhZImg The early churches taught the doctrine of universal reconciliation. Christ died for the souls of people in the past, present and in the future. Since God is timeless, this should probably have made sense from the beginning. If hell is real then Jesus failed. The first complete presentation of Christianity in 220 AD contains the doctrine of universal salvation. Neither the Apostles Creed or the Nicean Creed contain the doctrine of a burning hell. The early churches had access to the original manuscripts, which have been altered and bastardised by man over the years. Why should we trust them when we know our ancestors had the better picture? The doctrine of hell only became mainstream in the 6th century when the Catholics (that's right, them lot) gained power, authority and control. I believe they used it to spread the religion of Christianity. Just for the record, I am not claiming absolute truth when I say there is no hell; I just thought that putting that in the title would attract some attention.

[Techno]

Hell is not here yet. But you'll see it when it does.

[AirRick101]

i've been to hell people there are stingy never go to hong kong

[Catbus]

Try telling that to a Southern Baptist preacher... Actually, that would cause quite an interesting response, half of it would be outrage at the fact that you are claiming that there is no hell, but the other half would be complete joy that the Catholics did something wrong.

[AirRick101]

Try telling that to a Southern Baptist preacher... that's black people, right? agreed, watch out for the Southern Baptists

[Catbus]

that's black people, right? Kind of, there are black Southern Baptist preachers, but from the more prominently black churches I've been to they're much more accepting of other views (though I can't speak for all, just the ones close to me).

[really]

If hell is real then Jesus failed. If hell is real, one has ignored Jesus (or love, altogether). Edit: Otherwise, Love cannot fail.

[Zhaylin]

Bravo Idolfan!! You are on the right track but there is more to it than that. The Bible does NOT teach that people have an immortal soul or spirit that survives outside of the body. If a person reads the Gensis account closely they'll see that (to paraphrase) 'God breathed into Adam's nostrils and he BECAME a living soul' not 'he was given a living soul'. And Ezekiel 18:4 says, in part: "The soul that is sinning—it itself will die." Everyone sins so everyone dies. Perhaps you're familar with what some people say after a accident '200 souls were lost on the plane crash'. Jesus used a lot of illustrations and hyperbole because he knew there were some people who were following him simply for the sake of his miracles, for entertainment, for novelty for other reasons that weren't sincere. Using such tools in his teachings exposes those who merely want to "have their ears tickled" (2 Tim. 4:3) and those who would 'search for understanding as if for buried treasure' (Proverbs 2:1-5). I understand the importance of his doing so, but I still often wish he had spoken plainly because so many people disagree over what he "actually said" lol *sigh*. To believe people can suffer in a fiery hell, one must first believe in an immortal soul. When people are able to accept that basic teaching (that there is no immortal soul), they gain freedom of fear (a tactic a lot of churches resort to). God created man to live forever in perfect conditions. He didn't tell Adam 'if you eat from the forbidden fruit, you'll suffer forever in hell' and neither did he place the prospect of heaven before him. Adam was simply told if he ate the fruit he 'would die'. Adam and Eve were perfect. There was no defect in them. They WILLINGLY and KNOWINGLY chose self rule over God's rule. There will be no resurrection for them. Such is not the case for most of us. Acts 24:15 teaches: "and I have hope toward God, which hope these [men] themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." If people went to heaven or hell what would be the purpose of the resurrection? This is a topic I'm quite passionate about and I could go on forever lol, but I think I'll shut up now Great thread.

[Carôusoul]

I would of thought the human race would have got over this a few hundred years ago. Clearly not.

[Serkat]

Bravo Idolfan!! You are on the right track but there is more to it than that. The Bible does NOT teach that people have an immortal soul or spirit that survives outside of the body. If a person reads the Gensis account closely they'll see that (to paraphrase) 'God breathed into Adam's nostrils and he BECAME a living soul' not 'he was given a living soul'. And Ezekiel 18:4 says, in part: "The soul that is sinning—it itself will die." Everyone sins so everyone dies. Perhaps you're familar with what some people say after a accident '200 souls were lost on the plane crash'. Jesus used a lot of illustrations and hyperbole because he knew there were some people who were following him simply for the sake of his miracles, for entertainment, for novelty for other reasons that weren't sincere. Using such tools in his teachings exposes those who merely want to "have their ears tickled" (2 Tim. 4:3) and those who would 'search for understanding as if for buried treasure' (Proverbs 2:1-5). I understand the importance of his doing so, but I still often wish he had spoken plainly because so many people disagree over what he "actually said" lol *sigh*. To believe people can suffer in a fiery hell, one must first believe in an immortal soul. When people are able to accept that basic teaching (that there is no immortal soul), they gain freedom of fear (a tactic a lot of churches resort to). God created man to live forever in perfect conditions. He didn't tell Adam 'if you eat from the forbidden fruit, you'll suffer forever in hell' and neither did he place the prospect of heaven before him. Adam was simply told if he ate the fruit he 'would die'. Adam and Eve were perfect. There was no defect in them. They WILLINGLY and KNOWINGLY chose self rule over God's rule. There will be no resurrection for them. Such is not the case for most of us. Acts 24:15 teaches: "and I have hope toward God, which hope these [men] themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." If people went to heaven or hell what would be the purpose of the resurrection? This is a topic I'm quite passionate about and I could go on forever lol, but I think I'll shut up now Great thread. The bible also teaches that fags are evil. And why would you let someone die over a fruit? Seems kind of mean, like a school bully. God created man to live forever in perfect conditions. Clearly you have never watched the news or read a newspaper. And resurrection doesn't make any sense. I've never heard of a person living twice. It would be all over the news. Also, how do a couple million souls 2000 years ago make 6 billion today? Is it a cooperative effort? Being a soul must be a pretty tough job these days. As for topic, I heard that ODing on certain hallucinogens can get you into living hell rather quickly. You don't want to go there, so I heard.

[Ne-yo]

Clearly you have never watched the news or read a newspaper. Clearly you've never read the bible with complete understanding of what's written in the scriptures. The world you see today is not of God's plan, the world you see today is of mans plan doing things "his" way and not of the Fathers. And resurrection doesn't make any sense. I've never heard of a person living twice. It would be all over the news. You shouldn't hear of a person living twice in todays time. Revelations indicates resurrection and Jesus Christ reign over the Earth. This obviously has not occurred yet. Also, how do a couple million souls 2000 years ago make 6 billion today? Is it a cooperative effort? Being a soul must be a pretty tough job these days. What makes you think the Bible refers to a couple of million souls 2000 years ago?

[Serkat]

Clearly you've never read the bible with complete understanding of what's written in the scriptures. The world you see today is not of God's plan, the world you see today is of mans plan doing things "his" way and not of the Fathers. You are right, I haven't read the bible. So you are telling me that humans "planned" floods, meteors, viruses, hurricanes, lightning? Or do we have those because of the fags? What makes you think the Bible refers to a couple of million souls 2000 years ago? I never said that.

[Carôusoul]

So you are telling me that humans "planned" floods, meteors, viruses, hurricanes, lightning? Or do we have those because of the fags? NO dat is da devil hur hur

[Techno]

And Jesus spake: "Accept me or go to hell." Listen to the word, man. Jesus is being serious.

[Ne-yo]

You are right, I haven't read the bible. If you've never read the bible then how can you possibly make a statement like this? The bible also teaches that fags are evil. How would you know what the bible teaches if you've never read it????

[Serkat]

How would you know what the bible teaches if you've never read it???? Because I know stuff about the bible. Please spare me these pointless questions.

[ClouD]

Edit: *shrug* Please remember people, this is R/S not SB. :3

[Original Poster]

Because I know stuff about the bible. Please spare me these pointless questions. It's only a misconception that the bible says fags are evil. It only says that one may be punished be death if they have buttsex. Blowjobs are okay.

[DeathCell]

Bravo Idolfan!! You are on the right track but there is more to it than that. The Bible does NOT teach that people have an immortal soul or spirit that survives outside of the body. If a person reads the Gensis account closely they'll see that (to paraphrase) 'God breathed into Adam's nostrils and he BECAME a living soul' not 'he was given a living soul'. And Ezekiel 18:4 says, in part: "The soul that is sinning—it itself will die." Everyone sins so everyone dies. Perhaps you're familar with what some people say after a accident '200 souls were lost on the plane crash'. Jesus used a lot of illustrations and hyperbole because he knew there were some people who were following him simply for the sake of his miracles, for entertainment, for novelty for other reasons that weren't sincere. Using such tools in his teachings exposes those who merely want to "have their ears tickled" (2 Tim. 4:3) and those who would 'search for understanding as if for buried treasure' (Proverbs 2:1-5). I understand the importance of his doing so, but I still often wish he had spoken plainly because so many people disagree over what he "actually said" lol *sigh*. To believe people can suffer in a fiery hell, one must first believe in an immortal soul. When people are able to accept that basic teaching (that there is no immortal soul), they gain freedom of fear (a tactic a lot of churches resort to). God created man to live forever in perfect conditions. He didn't tell Adam 'if you eat from the forbidden fruit, you'll suffer forever in hell' and neither did he place the prospect of heaven before him. Adam was simply told if he ate the fruit he 'would die'. Adam and Eve were perfect. There was no defect in them. They WILLINGLY and KNOWINGLY chose self rule over God's rule. There will be no resurrection for them. Such is not the case for most of us. Acts 24:15 teaches: "and I have hope toward God, which hope these [men] themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." If people went to heaven or hell what would be the purpose of the resurrection? This is a topic I'm quite passionate about and I could go on forever lol, but I think I'll shut up now Great thread. If Adam and Eve were perfect why did they eat the fruit?

[Zhaylin]

Great questions Serkat, but to answer them would mean hijacking the thread (it would be lengthy to expalin each question). But, to digress just a little "fags" in and of themselves are not "evil". Do you obey the laws of the country you live in- don't speed, pay taxes, avoid drugs etc? If you choose not to obey the laws do you accept you could be punished? God tells us what he expects of us. If we choose not to listen, why not accept and expect his displeasure? Deathcell, Eve ate because she wanted to be like God. Adam could have eatten for the same reason, but it's likely that he ate because he loved his wife. When Eve sinned, Adam should have went to God right away. God could have corrected the matter or if nothing else, could have destroyed Eve and given Adam a new wife (worse case senario). But Adam likely loved his wife so much that he loved her more than God and chose her over God. And Omnis, You are too funny... but no, blowjobs are bad too

[Serkat]

Do you obey the laws of the country you live in- don't speed, pay taxes, avoid drugs etc? If you choose not to obey the laws do you accept you could be punished? If I stand behind breaking the law I'll try to avoid punishment. So in that sense I don't "accept" it. God tells us what he expects of us. If we choose not to listen, why not accept and expect his displeasure? Because I'm not a braindead goat that likes getting pushed around for breaking rules that don't make sense in the first place. What type of question is this anyway? What about criticizing authority, I thought that was cool with the kids, no? I don't think that explaining why killing someone over a piece of fruit is "hijacking the thread".

[Carôusoul]

But, to digress just a little "fags" in and of themselves are not "evil". Do you obey the laws of the country you live in- don't speed, pay taxes, avoid drugs etc? If you choose not to obey the laws do you accept you could be punished? God tells us what he expects of us. If we choose not to listen, why not accept and expect his displeasure? You're talking of a primal image of a cosmic alpha male which has come from early man's evolutionary and primitive need for this character. Notice how OT God is essentially just the perfect tribal leader. Anyway; if God appeared to you and told you that whatever happened you had to murder a certain child, would you do it without question?

[Idolfan]

Great questions Serkat, but to answer them would mean hijacking the thread (it would be lengthy to expalin each question). But, to digress just a little "fags" in and of themselves are not "evil". Do you obey the laws of the country you live in- don't speed, pay taxes, avoid drugs etc? If you choose not to obey the laws do you accept you could be punished? God tells us what he expects of us. If we choose not to listen, why not accept and expect his displeasure? Deathcell, Eve ate because she wanted to be like God. Adam could have eatten for the same reason, but it's likely that he ate because he loved his wife. When Eve sinned, Adam should have went to God right away. God could have corrected the matter or if nothing else, could have destroyed Eve and given Adam a new wife (worse case senario). But Adam likely loved his wife so much that he loved her more than God and chose her over God. And Omnis, You are too funny... but no, blowjobs are bad too I personally see nothing wrong with homosexuality. If God does, then so be it, this is just my opinion. Why the heck does God care about what two men who love each other do in the bedroom? Especially if they're married? How do we know that it wasn't just put there because it was written by men? Homosexuals were seen as disgusting in those days, so the Apostles could have mentioned them alongside other sinners such as fornicators, just to get the message across. God makes people homosexual. Whyever people classed it as an 'indulgence' is anyone's guess. It probably says a lot about them in fact. Anyway, can we get back on topic?

[Original Poster]

I must digress, once again... Dear Dr. Laura Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them: When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die? I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging

[Zhaylin]

Omnis, That was a very funny excerpt BUT, the laws of the Old Testament were ONLY FOR the Israelites. Christians are no longer under that law since the death of Christ. We are however under the principles that those laws established. It is not up for Christians to "smite" anyone. In the war to come, God himself (through Jesus) will deal with those he deems as being wicked.