Thread: Could you see yourself praying for Gods intervention were you dying?(for atheists)

Originally Posted by DeathCell

Our bodies can't live forever.. if they start turning us into hybrid machine life forms...

Death sucks but its just a part of life, whether unnecessary or young... it happens all the time. I guess I'm not looking for comfort, the natural world is brutal.

I don't care if you are looking for comfort or not. Telling people who have just lost someone to a terminal illness that "Sometimes it is just meant to be... after all life is a cycle... " would mean absolutely nothing to them. Why even bother saying it at all if "it was just meant to be" isn't meant to be comforting?

Why bother saying "it was just meant to be" for any reason other than to put the past behind you and quell your feelings of sadness?

Originally Posted by Sandform

I don't care if you are looking for comfort or not. Telling people who have just lost someone to a terminal illness that "Sometimes it is just meant to be... after all life is a cycle... " would mean absolutely nothing to them. Why even bother saying it at all if "it was just meant to be" isn't meant to be comforting?

Why bother saying "it was just meant to be" for any reason other than to make the situation seem less burdensome?

When did I say I would tell people this who just lost someone?

Life isn't comforting.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

When did I say I would tell people this who just lost someone?

Life isn't comforting.

Well you said it to me, which I assume means it was the advice you were giving to me on how to think about that kind of situation. You also said it to anyone else who reads this thread.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

Birth -> Life -> Death

Sometimes it is just meant to be... after all life is a cycle...

And I never said life was comforting, I said don't say bull shit like "sometimes it is just meant to be" when many times we are talking about people who really shouldn't have died. There is no reason to say "just meant to be" about death other than to alleviate your own grief or the grief of others.

Originally Posted by Sandform

I said don't say bull shit like "sometimes it is just meant to be" when many times we are talking about people who really shouldn't have died. There is no reason to say "just meant to be" about death other than to alleviate your own grief or the grief of others.

"...Who shouldn't have died"? Who said that what is waiting for us after death is bad? Maybe that person that "shouldn't have died" is now in a better place living a better life as they really deserve. Who knows? We'll never know. I don't think anyone that dies is meant to die, I think it just happened and I know it sad and I know that I'd cry if someone I loved died but when you really think about it, that person might be happier now.

Originally Posted by Sandform

Well you said it to me, which I assume means it was the advice you were giving to me on how to think about that kind of situation. You also said it to anyone else who reads this thread.

Yes but I wouldn't suggest giving that advice to someone in the grieving process, just stating the cold facts of life.

And I never said life was comforting, I said don't say bull shit like "sometimes it is just meant to be" when many times we are talking about people who really shouldn't have died. There is no reason to say "just meant to be" about death other than to alleviate your own grief or the grief of others.

Their isn't really anything such as shouldn't have died.. As I said life is death..

Life feeds on life... 1
In nature animals die of disease, being eaten early all the time..2

Life in not meant to be comforting, and a belief that people shouldn't have died is nothing but the human experience. I understand it hurts and is painful especially to those leaving us young, but it really is inevitable.. while early.. That is as I said.. part of the cycle.

Death is just meant to be, after all it comes after life.

We'd all love to live till we are 99 + but sadly that is not reality.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

Their isn't really anything such as shouldn't have died.. As I said life is death..

Good case to be made there, next time you go on a homicidal rampage just be sure to tell everyone that there isn't anyone who "shouldn't have died."

As for the rest of your nonsense. Perhaps you allow the fact that human beings must die eventually to lower the value you give life, but for me it is the opposite. In every instance that a person dies it is a tragedy, even if only for that person, and the less someone is allowed to experience life, the worse of a tragedy it is.

I don't care, nor would I expect any other person to care, if you devalue life just because we all must die. I will stick to stressing the importance of life, rather than pretending that just because we must die eventually that there is no such thing as an unnecessary death. Because I expect you need clarification, when one says unnecessary death, they do not mean that a person should have been immortal, but rather the particular instance of death should never have happened.

The average person has the genetic capability of living to 100 years old. It's the extra stress we put on our organs via intense emotional output, over eating, not exercising, malnutrition, etc that reduce our life expectancy.

Originally Posted by Sandform

Good case to be made there, next time you go on a homicidal rampage just be sure to tell everyone that there isn't anyone who "shouldn't have died."

I'm not talking about morality and how humans view things... Nature and how life works and morality and human decency are two separate issues.

As for the rest of your nonsense. Perhaps you allow the fact that human beings must die eventually to lower the value you give life, but for me it is the opposite. In every instance that a person dies it is a tragedy, even if only for that person, and the less someone is allowed to experience life, the worse of a tragedy it is.

I'm not lowering the value of life, life is precious and short.. especially those who die young of the unexpected.. It can be a tragedy, but that is just a human concept.. It's tragic of course it fits the definition but that doesn't mean whoever shouldn't have died, because as I said.. Life and Death go hand in hand. They may have been taken unfairly, abruptly, or by an evil of another person but as I said everyone is meant to die... When is the question.

In every instance that a person dies it is a tragedy, even if only for that person, and the less someone is allowed to experience life, the worse of a tragedy it is.

When did I say it was not a tragedy? You are pulling words out of the air.

I don't care, nor would I expect any other person to care, if you devalue life just because we all must die.

When did I devalue life? You are misconstruing my words.

I will stick to stressing the importance of life, rather than pretending that just because we must die eventually that there is no such thing as an unnecessary death.

As will I, continue to stress the importance of life because you never know when you may die. Death is necessary, it may come early to some but it is part of reality.. doesn't mean I encourage people to murder.... or encourage death to come quicker....

Because I expect you need clarification, when one says unnecessary death, they do not mean that a person should have been immortal, but rather the particular instance of death should never have happened.

I don't believe that an instance of death should never have happened, if it was committed by an evil that is the reality of the moment and calling is unnecessary isn't going to change anything. I don't encourage evil, or early death but it is the reality of life.. In our world and in nature... Everything we eat could be viewed as an unnecessary death, the only reason early deaths of humans are considered as such is because we value ourselves more than other life.

War is nothing but "unnecessary" death where is the outrage in this country that keeps fueling and fighting them?

My point is the word unnecessary is nothing but a superfluous statement that is based on your emotional reaction to someone leaving this world "unfairly".

My second point is that no matter the circumstances life and death go hand in hand. Nothing else.

I love how you agree with me while disagreeing.

The only death that is necessary is the death that happens at old age, because no matter what old age gets us. Every other type of death is unnecessary because only old age is unavoidable by everyone.

It isn't necessary to be infected with aids, or die from a flu, or contract polio, but it is necessary to grow old and die.

Originally Posted by Sandform

I love how you agree with me while disagreeing.

The only death that is necessary is the death that happens at old age, because no matter what old age gets us. Every other type of death is unnecessary because only old age is unavoidable by everyone.

It isn't necessary to be infected with aids, or die from a flu, or contract polio, but it is necessary to grow old and die.

I see what you are saying, it's more of a mix up of terms I think that causes the disagreement. I certainly agree to a point that murder of youth is unnecessary in the context it was done, but death is a necessary conclusion of being murdered.

Or a better example is the disease one, while it may be viewed emotionally as unnecessary.. Disease exist and are known to kill... A necessary consequence of being weakened to the state of death is dying..

My view is very cold and calculated, not emotion.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

I see what you are saying, it's more of a mix up of terms I think that causes the disagreement. I certainly agree to a point that murder of youth is unnecessary in the context it was done, but death is a necessary conclusion of being murdered.

Or a better example is the disease one, while it may be viewed emotionally as unnecessary.. Disease exist and are known to kill... A necessary consequence of being weakened to the state of death is dying..

Though it is not necessary to contract the disease.

Originally Posted by Sandform

Though it is not necessary to contract the disease.

I see where you are going with that. You have very good points.