This is what I believe

[davej]

As most of you should know by now, I'm a firm believer in the Christian Faith. I know that God was our creator and that he sent Jesus to die on the cross for our sins. I am a Christian and nothing will change that. This is what I also believe. I believe that everyone has a right to their own beliefs. I believe that people can pick and chose who they want to worship. People can also choose not to believe. I believe it isn't my place to tell people what they should or should not believe in. I also do not believe that just because you are not a Christian you must be a bad person. Jesus said hate the sin but love the sinner. I have several friends that are athiest and others that believe in other religions. If that makes them a better person then great. I guess what I am trying to say is that I'm not judging anyone for what they believe. I origionally came to this forum to learn more about lucid dreams after I stumbled across it one day on the net. After studying it, personally I don't believe you can control a dream. I left those threads and mainly started posting in R/S in hopes of finding others with same beliefs to talk with. Obviously that didn't work out too well. I started to feel that I am haveing to defend my own faith. Now I don't mind defending my faith if it was for a worthy cause. I'm not planing on posting anymore here. Not because i'm mad at anyone (i'm not) not because i feel threatened (i don't) but because i want to focus what time i have on here more at my other forums where i have the fellowship that i thought i might find on here.

[Kiza]

Okay.

[DrunkenArse]

After studying it, personally I don't believe you can control a dream. Makes sense, you don't believe you can control your life either. By your own admission so I really don't think that I'm putting words in your mouth here. I started to feel that I am haveing to defend my own faith. As well you should have to defend all your ideas, if only from yourself. I'm not planing on posting anymore here. Not because i'm mad at anyone (i'm not) not because i feel threatened (i don't) but because i want to focus what time i have on here more at my other forums where i have the fellowship that i thought i might find on here. Okay.

[ClouD]

You are a Christian and nothing would change that? Surely you've noticed that your practice and belief in certain aspects of religion have changed over time. You also certainly didn't accept Christianity before you learned it. Beliefs change -- not that I'm trying to "convert" you, what I am saying is that you will adapt more or different beliefs that support your point of view, as everyone does. They may come from within the Christian bible, or they may come from the Bhagavad Gita, they may even come from an atheist, but one thing that you can be sure of is that they will come; your point of view will change as experience grows. - As for not believing that people are able to control their dreams, it depends what you mean by control. You could say no-one can control their lives, because their 'control' is limited within that 'life' itself, which could be what you are saying about dreams. If though, you are saying that material control is not possible, then I think you should think through what you are saying. I would find it hard to believe you have not ever made a decision in your dream that was not directed by your consciousness (as opposed to witnessing and nothing more).

[cuddleyperson]

. After studying it, personally I don't believe you can control a dream. have faith my friend, if you truly believe you will be able to have Lucid Dreams.

[Ne-yo]

I hate to see you go, as there is a huge shortage of Christians here. I've been arguing it up with Atheist here for over 2 years. It's all a learning experience and both sides learn from one another. I can remember a formidable opponent that was a very intellectual and I really like to argue it up with him. The guy name was Tsen, I haven't seen him around in over a year but we had some very good battles and because of him and Universal Mind, my entire knowledge of Evolution has increased. That's what it's all about. I accept portions of evolution and I'm very aware that some instances has transpired but not on the level that most of these Atheist preach about but it does and has transpired under certain circumstances. I point out the flaws in their beliefs in the same fashion that they point out flaws in mine. However the only flaw they have with me is the fact that I cannot produce God and prove his existence, in that same instance they cannot prove that he doesn't exist. So it's no real loss there. There is really no evidence that stacks up against an intelligent designer. Most Atheist are set out try and intimidate and belittle. What happens here is that most evolutionist like to pick parts of evolution and say this is "fact" this part is also "fact" look at these fossils they are also "fact" so in light of this the entire theory of evolution has an insurmountable amount of factual information that's consistent with this theory, however, when you put it all together as it should be then what happens? It becomes inconclusive and it doesn't work. When you really step back and look at it all you have both sides arguing with nothing to really support any real evidence that is 100% full proof. So why argue? Because it's intellectually challenging and a lot of fun, especially when you know most Atheist are easily controlled and is very emotionally unstable. It's fun to see one lose it and start calling you all sorts of names because he's pissed that you said something that pushed him in a corner. Now with regards to dream control. Lucid Dreaming happens I'm living proof that one can be coherent in dreams. You can control it, however there is no such thing as 100% full conscious control in a dream. You can only control certain aspects of a lucid dream, but the foundation and format of that Lucid Dream is always subjected to subconscious means. There is ultimately nothing you can do to control the entire content, you can only manipulate and influence the content that has already been set up by your subconscious. I don't post on the dream threads anymore either because it's pretty much redundant information, I don't mind helping but thats what the dream guides are for. I'm a natural Lucid Dreaming and I've induced on every level that you can think of. However 90% of mine is becoming aware while in the dream. I don't WILD or DILD it just happen because of awareness within the dream. I say don't give up easily and it would be cool if you stick around as I've read a lot of your post and you do know your stuff

[Taosaur]

After studying it, personally I don't believe you can control a dream. That's...odd. So what, we're all lying? Honestly, I don't know if you (that is, just anyone) can learn dream control, but it's as real a phenomenon as sleep apnea or left-handedness. As for Christians on DV, they're around but usually keep mum in R/S, with the exception of some more 'crusading' types Happy trails.

[Lucid_boy]

As for Christians on DV, they're around but usually keep mum in R/S, with the exception of some more 'crusading' types Happy trails. Then you have people like me who don't know what they believe in and support christianity half the time and atheism the other half...don't worry dave, If I see a total absence of christians, i'll take up the cause for old times sake...

[Universal Mind]

personally I don't believe you can control a dream. Your post was written with friendly intentions, and I want to give you some friendly and very important advice in return. I assure you... Dreams CAN be controlled. I do it all the time. I quit posting for the most part in the lucid dream forums because it's the same stuff over and over, mostly newbies asking the same few questions ad infinitum. I will probably start sharing my lucid experiences again soon, though. I promise you that you can learn to control your dreams. It's not just that easy to master, and there are limits to how much a dream can be controlled, but lucid dreaming is a reality. You can bet the farm on that. In my early days here, I wrote about a bunch of my lucid dreams. This is my account of the first major one I ever had. A post further down is an account of another one. http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...baseball+andes

[DrunkenArse]

So why argue? Because it's intellectually challenging and a lot of fun, especially when you know most Atheist are easily controlled and is very emotionally unstable. It's fun to see one lose it and start calling you all sorts of names because he's pissed that you said something that pushed him in a corner. Can you give an instance of when you've ever pushed somebody that's arguing in favor of evolution into any sort of corner? I would really like to see that. And telling somebody that they're ignorant or stupid if they are ignorant or stupid isn't 'name calling' in any proper sense of the word. Rude maybe, but not name-calling. If you said "I don't accept evolution" and I said, "Oh, then you're a fag", that would be name calling. Correctly diagnosing a situation is nothing of the sort. It goes back to the whole earth is flat thing. Anybody that believes it has something wrong with their cognitive functioning and is ignorant to say the least.

[Ne-yo]

Can you give an instance of when you've ever pushed somebody that's arguing in favor of evolution into any sort of corner? I would really like to see that. And telling somebody that they're ignorant or stupid if they are ignorant or stupid isn't 'name calling' in any proper sense of the word. Rude maybe, but not name-calling. If you said "I don't accept evolution" and I said, "Oh, then you're a fag", that would be name calling. Correctly diagnosing a situation is nothing of the sort. It goes back to the whole earth is flat thing. Anybody that believes it has something wrong with their cognitive functioning and is ignorant to say the least. Get off your self absorbed complex. What in the world makes you think I was referring to you? I just met you about a couple of weeks ago, I don't know jack about you.

[cuddleyperson]

That's...odd. So what, we're all lying? Honestly, I don't know if you (that is, just anyone) can learn dream control, but it's as real a phenomenon as sleep apnea or left-handedness. nah Taosaur he just doesn't truly understand like we do, he hasn't seen the light, hasn't the right kind of faith I'm afraid. BELIEVE!

[DrunkenArse]

Get off your self absorbed complex. What in the world makes you think I was referring to you? I just met you about a couple of weeks ago, I don't know jack about you. I was referring to any person arguing in favor of evolution ever being backed into any sort of corner. At least in the last 30 years. Show me. The name calling thing is universally applicable as well. Get off your evasive complex and show me.

[Ne-yo]

That's a lot of information to dig through but you have the capabilities to check my posts and my rebuttals if you're so adamant about seeing it, do yourself a favor and search for it. Don't expect me to hand you something whenever you ask for it.