Thread: A new theory (for creationists)

Originally Posted by fzongqvxp

God/Physical:
God the Father. Our bodies are created in his image, and there are signs of his workmanship pervading the physical world. He is the creator, and shows his glory through the complexity of life and the vastness of the universe. Almost anything in nature can be used to demonstrate the glory of God. This also explains how man can only reach the father through Jesus Christ the son.

This makes it seems as if we are created to physically appear as the image of the Father and this is not what we should get from the bible espcially when you take into consideration that God is not a physical being. The statement that we are made in God's image implies that we have free will and we have full rational awareness of self, we are morally aware we are intelligent/thinking beings, which is pretty much the short of it. But it has completely nothing to do with our physical appearence. Also Im a Christian and I do not believe in the trinity, the bible just doesn't support this.

I just meant that in general we are made in his image. However you want to view that. And also, if you don't believe in the trinity, then how do you view the whole Father-son thing?

Originally Posted by fzongqvxp

I just meant that in general we are made in his image. However you want to view that. And also, if you don't believe in the trinity, then how do you view the whole Father-son thing?

The Trinity implies that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all one in the same making the 3 one God-head, The Bible tells us that they are 3 separate entities. The Scriptures also implies that Jesus is the first of God's invisible creations. The Holy Spirit has no origin mentioned in the Scriptures but it's pretty clear that the H.S. is God's active force, which he uses to make things happen. (not that he cannot make things happen himself) As far as we know based off the Bible The Father is the only entity with no origin.

Boy, this isn't even a half-ass'd hypothesis. This is drivel on par with some of the ridiculousness that gets posted in Beyond Dreaming.

Where, basically, could you have possibly arrived at this conclusion without fabricating nearly all of it, or just twisting already existing bullshit?

theres alot more where that came from

im not saying its undeniably true, i just spend alot of time thinking about random stuff. If nothing else it is food for thought.

I don't think this is bullshit though. Planes have to overlap each other if anything supernatural is ever to occur. I mean we have yet to prove that a tear in space-time is possible. i see no reason why two planes cannot exist in the same place at one time.

and about the trinity, even if they are separate beings, the theory still flies since they all have God-like power.

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

The Trinity implies that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all one in the same making the 3 one God-head, The Bible tells us that they are 3 separate entities. The Scriptures also implies that Jesus is the first of God's invisible creations. The Holy Spirit has no origin mentioned in the Scriptures but it's pretty clear that the H.S. is God's active force, which he uses to make things happen. (not that he cannot make things happen himself) As far as we know based off the Bible The Father is the only entity with no origin.

Interesting, but what about;

1 Corinthians. 4 ... we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

John 10:30. I and my Father are one.

Not trying to have a go at you, just interested.

Originally Posted by Dizko

Interesting, but what about;

Not trying to have a go at you, just interested.

I'm happy that you've inquired, isn't thats what it's really all about? Ask and you shall receive, I search for truth and discussing this only furthers are wisdom to find that truth. The Scriptures can appear to be quite contridictory until we look closer...

The Bible teaches us that God is one and is called Monotheism. If we investigate eccesiatical history it display's that monotheism in it's most purist form does not allow a trinity and thus, making the Old Testament entirely monotheistic. The idea of a Trinity in the Old Testament is without foundation whatsoever and it does not apply.

There is absolutely no break between the Old and New Testaments. Jesus was a Jew, trained by Jewish parents in the Old Testament scriptures. His teaching was Jewish to the core a new gospel, but not a new theology. He accepted as his own belief the great text of Jewish monotheism, remember this one in Deuteronomy 6:4? "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one God."

Lets look at other verses.

The apostle Paul did not show any indication of any changes to God's nature, even after Jesus came to Earth. Galatians 3:20 and Corinthians 8:4-6 where he writes "God is only one"

Isaiah 4:28 I am Yahweh. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory.
Exodus 20:2.3I am Yahweh your God you shall have no gods except me.

Why would all the God inspired Bible writers speak of God as one person if he were actually three persons? What purpose would that serve, except to mislead people? Surely, if God were composed of three persons, he would have had his Bible writers make it abundantly clear so that there could be no doubt about it. At least the writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures who had personal contact with God's own Son would have done so. But they did not. Instead, what the Bible writers did make abundantly clear is that God is one Person a unique, unpartitioned Being who has no equal, "I am Yahweh, and there is no one else. With the exception of me there is no God." Isaiah 45:5 "You, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." Psalm 83:18.

That is why nowhere in the Bible is anyone but the Father called Almighty. Otherwise, it voids the meaning of the word "almighty." Neither Jesus nor the holy spirit is ever called that, for the Father alone is supreme. At Genesis 17:1 he states "I am God Almighty." And Exodus 18:11 says "Yahweh is greater than all the other gods."

Now with regards of Jesus saying "The Father and I are one" what he is implying here is that he completely Isomorphic with God's plans and his ideas. He speaks as God speaks, his teachings are in accordance with the Father, and there is nothing indifferent between Jesus and the Father. They are one in the same on every level regarding God's plan for his creatures. This is in the same instance that my wife and I are one in the same. We share the same ideas and we work to achieve the same goals. All the teachings that Jesus has presented to us are completely in sync with the teachings that the Father has for us.

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

Now with regards of Jesus saying "The Father and I are one" what he is implying here is that he completely Isomorphic with God's plans and his ideas.

Are you a mathematician? I've never seen anybody else use the word isomorphic.

Congrats! This sounds really plausible. I mean, I don't think it's extremely relevant to Christianity, and is obviously beyond our grasp. However, itdoes aid in understanding the spiritual realm. Read my thread. Unsaid something similar. Also, C.S Lewis had a good conception of the spiritual world.

Off topic, but your signature is very disturbing and tasteless.

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

Are you a mathematician? I've never seen anybody else use the word isomorphic.

I actually stole that word from Switch she's like a mathematical freak and she used that word enough times for me to take it...lol

Originally Posted by Noogah

Read my thread. Unsaid something similar. Also, C.S Lewis had a good conception of the spiritual world.

Nice, great minds think alike I just quoted C.S. Lewis in my thread also, "Suffering, A contradiction of an Omnipotent Being?" :

I was looking for a different version of "The Blind Men and the Elephant" and came across this... the story in any version is a great study in perspective! I believe a religion is a perspective of God shared by a group of people, and that each religion is a "blind man." None has the whole picture at all! It is only as we begin to share what each religion sees, that we can begin to get the Big Picture. This version, by John Godfrey Saxe, is rhymed rather nicely.

For Jain, Buddhist, and Sufi versions, see: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant>


The Blind Men and the Elephant
John Godfrey Saxe (1816-1887)

It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a WALL!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, "Ho, what have we here,
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a SPEAR!"

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a SNAKE!"

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee
"What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain," quoth he:
"'Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a TREE!"

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a FAN!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a ROPE!"

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

i know that things in the spiritual realm are beyond our grasp.

This is merely an equation. If you think about it, technically numbers and letters do not exist. They are just things we use to comprehend the world. We accept them as true so that we explain things further than what we had originally thought about. Same goes for chemistry. Or music (thats why the study of music is called "music THEORY"). Or the monetary system. or even evolution for that matter.

so even though there is no way to prove it, it is simply one angle of looking at something that has many angles. Like glasses for our blind human brains. In the same way that two planes can exist in the same place, two theories can exist in simultaneous truth. One theory can be a metaphor for another and vice versa. Either way it all boils down to representation and comprehension.

In reguards to there being a trinity, i believe the bible is quite clear that there is one. With the whole "Before the earth was I am" thing, Jesus did kinda claim to be God, and there are many references backing it up.

Originally Posted by fzongqvxp

In reguards to there being a trinity, i believe the bible is quite clear that there is one. With the whole "Before the earth was I am" thing, Jesus did kinda claim to be God, and there are many references backing it up.

Please feel free to reference them I like to see it or you can tackle the references from the scriptures that I posted previously and see if something doesn't match up. Because based off the information I just presented and referencing the verses that I';ve included here, it looks pretty clear that the 3 are seperate entities.

what do you think Jesus and the Holy Spirit are exactly?

Originally Posted by fzongqvxp

what do you think Jesus and the Holy Spirit are exactly?

Hmmmm I see you didn't read the material I posted. Wow, The answer is there. However, I'll put it here.

The Holy Spirit is God's Active Force. He uses this force to make things happen, (not that he cannot make things happen without it) but this active force plays a major role as mentioned several times in the bible, in assisting God's work.

Jesus Christ - The Son of God.

...you are beginning to convince me.

but still. i mean if Jesus is the son of God, then does that mean God has the power to reproduce? If Jesus and God are separate then they must be the same type of life-form.

it just opens up a pandora's box in the way of thinking it through. or maybe its all just above our human minds.

Not really, the Bible is pretty specific with regards to separating them, considering they do have different names with the exception of the Holy Spirit. The father is the only entity ever titled 'Almighty' In the scriptures. Jesus has never been given this title. Now don't get wrong, Jesus is highly important because through him can you achieve everlasting peace, he is the prince of peace right? It makes sense

Originally Posted by Xei

Off topic, but your signature is very disturbing and tasteless.

Sorry, I added some more stuff.

Ne-yo and fzongqvxp I believe both of you have good points. I think your idea of the three planes is very interesting. Thanks for posting your ideas.