Thread: 10 Questions for an Intelligent Christian

Allright, very good.

I have one problem though with the vid:

I like the delusional!!

I think the world would be a sad and boring place with out a little oddness and unreality. Do we as LDers not constantly check which reality we are in, always hoping that when we do we find we are actualy in the unreal?

I am surprised at you. You are a Discordian! a Chaote! What would the maker of this video say if he came across you performing the lesser banishing ritual while wearing a gorrila suit and wielding a large inflateable bannana??? "You are delusional" he might say. You would of course laugh at him and say something like "But of course! What of it? Did you seriously think I was aiming for austere?!?"

I assume you are well versed with the works of Wilson and Hyatt? What fun would life be without all the dogma addicts out there that you can manipulate for amusement and gain - yet enriching their lives by waking them up from time to time with a little injection of oddness and chaos???

I like to embrace my reality and unreality in equal measure.

Sadly, all this is fine except of course when lots of like minded dogma junkies group together and start passing laws to make you live according to the standards of their delusions. As long as everybody is free to pursue their own delusions then I am fine. Why is oral sex still banned in almost half the US states?!?!? - Because the puritants that founded the country hundreds of years ago thought it was nasty and sinful! I say we rise up! Take to the streets and go down on each other in a glorious display of mass civil disobedience until these wrongs are righted!!!

Now its Friday the last time I checked - arent you supposed to be eating hot dogs in reverance to the Origional Snub or out and about fnord hunting or something???

The world needs the delusional - they just shouldnt be allowed to pass laws.

Why would the world be sad and boring without delusions? I don't see the logic behind that. And even if it were the case, you're saying people who hold such delusions can't be allowed to create and pass legislation for governments and nations.

How do we know who is delusional and who isn't? We could be electing anyone into office, and if we usually elect those who share the same beliefs as us, so the odds of electing someone delusional to a position of legislative power would be pretty self-defeating in regards to that argument.

What is wrong with someone not having delusions? For the most part, I'd find the world to be a clearer and happier place to live in if that were the case. If such people are sad and boring, then why on Earth would we elect them to positions of power? That'd be akin to giving the potentially-unstable the power to determine the fate of the rest of humanity.

EvilDoctor, you are my favorite new member.

Originally Posted by Daniel Danciu

Why would the world be sad and boring without delusions? I don't see the logic behind that. And even if it were the case, you're saying people who hold such delusions can't be allowed to create and pass legislation for governments and nations.

How do we know who is delusional and who isn't?

Delusion in the form of religion has given us jaw droping works of art and architecture. True it has given us some gruesome wars. But then we the people would still find plenty to fight over, and feeding the war machine has arguably been the main driver in the investment in research and therefore the progress of science.

The world would be boring without the diversity of culture - and religion like it or no is a big part of this.

Delusion in the form of religion is BAD when the prevailing religous dogma gets to set the rules for everybody else regardless of whether everyone buys into the religion. I beleive in the total freedom of the individual - so for example am a keen advocate of euthanasia. I resent and seethe at the fact that I do not have the right to die with dignity at a place and time of my choosing all because the presiding delusion in the USA is that it is actually the right of the "big beardy invisible guy in the sky" to decide when I clock out. I lived in Belgium for a few year - a very devoutly catholic country. All shops are closed Sunday in Belgium - if you are a non-chatholic that owns a shop or would like to go shopping then you are screwed.

Politics is another primary source of dogma - and therefore delusion. This is not the forum for politics - but try telling me there is no delusion in politics and try keeping a straight face - bet you cant. One of my favorite quotes is by Arthur C Clarke, he said something like "HE who activley seeks political power over others is THE LAST person society should allow to weild it." SOmething all politicians share is the delusion that the world would be a good and happy place if everybody else thought exactly like themselves.

Even sports!! I am a Packers fan. Based on their amazing performance in the preseason I was sure they were going to go to the superbowl this year. Alas they suck. However, deep down in my heart every Sunday I am full of hope and faith that they will make good - so every week I delude myself all over again.

Dont forget its the irrational parts of our human nature where hope and faith come from. Logic will only take you so far - we are not robots yet.

And as to "how do we know who is delusional and who isnt" - we dont! Cool! So to battle we go!

The world the way it is is already incredible, delusion or no.

Who isn't amazed by the fact that we have machines that weigh tons and
can still fly? Particle physics? Powergrids? Individual perception of the world
in which we live? Every real element of our universe on its own warrants
amazement.

I feel I must watch the video, having posted in this thread, though it does
not apply to me. Later.

1.Why not? Well why so? He may not heal them, but he helps them. God let's nature work the way it was made to work. He doesn't

ignore the prayers, but that doesn't necessarily mean he will heal the lost limb. God still has a perfect plan for their life, and

can see the bigger picture that others cannot see. How can one know that path the amputee may have treaded had he not lost the

limb? Perhaps he would have died.

2. Yes people are starving! Why don't you help them? Seems to me that God has given us PLENTY of money to help starving countries.

Instead of wasting money on the fancy computer you're using right now, why didn't you use it to buy food? Why would God worry

about a Christian's raise when there are starving children in the world? Guys, think about it. That's good stuff right there. The

thousands of dollars that an average person will waste on luxuries COULD be put to good use.

3. All those verses are in the old testament, and were given as laws to the Jews. This was done before Jesus' death, and was the

only way for one to be able to be saved in the future. It's tough, but that's why Jesus had to die to keep us from following so

much. We no longer have to obey those judgments, but should still obey the commandments.

Trivial offenses? They might be trivial in the physical realm, but they sure aren't where God is.

4. What? Those aren't anti-scientific. Yes, God made the world in six days, six thousand years ago....why is that ridiculous?

Yes, a flood covered mount Everest, before it ever even became a mountain. (There is enough water in the oceans alone to cover the

world in a mile of water)

What about Jonah living in the belly of a fish? I don't even recall that God said he lived through that.

The Bible doesn't say God created Adam from a "handful" of dust. You yourself knows that Plants get nutrition from the soil.

Animals get their nutrition from the plants, humans get nutrition from both. Ultimately, all elements required to produce a human

exists in soil, or as the Bible says, the dust of the earth.

5. Yeah, but the Bible's definttion of slavery is a liiiiitttle bit different than ours.

Originally Posted by Deuteronomy 15:12-15 9 (King James Version)

12And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year

thou shalt let him go free from thee.

13And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty:

14Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the LORD

thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him.

15And thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in the land of Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee: therefore I command
thee this thing to day.

Originally Posted by Ephesians 6:6-9(King James Version)

5Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your
heart, as unto Christ;

6Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;

7With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:

8Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

9And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is
there respect of persons with him.

In other words, slaves were treated quite well.

6.Bad things to good people?

Originally Posted by Luke 18:19(King James Version)

19And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? None is good, save one, that is, God.

7.No evidence? What kind of evidence do you want? Jesus turned water to wine. Exactly what kind of evidence do you expect to find?

A fossilized pot of water? The kind of miracles Jesus performed wouldn't necessarily leave behind evidence. Especially after 2,000

years worth of decay. Bread crumbs tend to mold after that kind of time.

8. Because Jesus isn't a wish granting machine. He isn't a genie that can be summoned, and commanded. He won't appear in the

physical realm until the second coming. Prayer is communion. It's a relationship, and one can become spiritually close to him
through prayer.

9. We don't eat his flesh, or drink his blood.

Originally Posted by 1st Corinthians 11:23-26

23For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was
betrayed took bread:

24And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in
remembrance of me.

25After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye,
as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

In other words, bread is symbolic of his body, the drink was symbolic of his blood, and he commanded that when they ate, or drank that they do it in remembrance of him. It wasn't literally his body, or his blood.

10. Because:

a.They are imperfect humans.

b.You can claim to be a Christian without being a Christian

c.You can also be a Christian that makes mistakes



We live in the age of Laodicea church. Half hearted, lukewarm Christians. It's sad indeed.

Originally Posted by Noogah

1.Why not? Well why so? He may not heal them, but he helps them. God let's nature work the way it was made to work. He doesn't

ignore the prayers, but that doesn't necessarily mean he will heal the lost limb. God still has a perfect plan for their life, and

can see the bigger picture that others cannot see. How can one know that path the amputee may have treaded had he not lost the

limb? Perhaps he would have died.

What about people that will never even hear the name Jesus in their life time? How are these people supposed to be saved? Surely god would not deny these people hearing their saviour's name once in their lifetime, would he?
Does God favour people living in the vicinity of Christian churches? Why would he do such a thing?

(There is enough water in the oceans alone to cover the world in a mile of water)

NO. Try again later.

Yes, God made the world in six days, six thousand years ago....why is that ridiculous?

It contradicts all of modern knowledge. Hence, it is untrue. We have moved on to newer and more correct theories.

This whole clingy, conservative mindset represents EVERYTHING that is WRONG with the world.

Why not? Well why so? He may not heal them, but he helps them. God let's nature work the way it was made to work. He doesn't ignore the prayers, but that doesn't necessarily mean he will heal the lost limb. God still has a perfect plan for their life, and can see the bigger picture that others cannot see. How can one know that path the amputee may have treaded had he not lost the limb? Perhaps he would have died.

But as what was exactly told in the video, you begin to talk about how god have this "special plan" for them. How exactly do you know he helps them, anyway? And in which way? And how do you know god have a special plan for them? Oh and, perhaps he wouldn't have died. When you start to extend the actual question you just add on a lot of new material and unanswered questions without actually addressing what was first asked in a clear manner. As I said, the way you addressed the answer was nothing but new statements extending the original question, but without really answering it, atleast in a way that leaves out as much subjective oppinions as possible.

Yes people are starving! Why don't you help them? Seems to me that God has given us PLENTY of money to help starving countries. Instead of wasting money on the fancy computer you're using right now, why didn't you use it to buy food? Why would God worry about a Christian's raise when there are starving children in the world? Guys, think about it. That's good stuff right there. The thousands of dollars that an average person will waste on luxuries COULD be put to good use.

The question wasn't whenever or not we help them, it's why god WOULDN'T help them. He made the earth in 6 days after all... why wouldn't he wanna help himself? He is supposed to be an all loving god after all. Besides, you donating to organisations to supply food for the starving is all well and good, but the amount of starvation and suffering around the globe exceeds what could possibly be expected to be able to cover. Also it won't stop until the actual problem with the countries themself are addressed. An superior being as god could help a whole lot, so would there be any reason as to why he wouldn't help? You didn't answer that question after all.

#3 I can't really answer as I don't really have any in-depth knowlegde of the area, but if I should atleast try to answer it...

What? Those aren't anti-scientific. Yes, God made the world in six days, six thousand years ago....why is that ridiculous?

Yes, a flood covered mount Everest, before it ever even became a mountain. (There is enough water in the oceans alone to cover the world in a mile of water)

What about Jonah living in the belly of a fish? I don't even recall that God said he lived through that.

The Bible doesn't say God created Adam from a "handful" of dust. You yourself knows that Plants get nutrition from the soil. Animals get their nutrition from the plants, humans get nutrition from both. Ultimately, all elements required to produce a human exists in soil, or as the Bible says, the dust of the earth.

You ask why the claim of an all superior being creating the world in 6 days, 6000 years ago disregarding all the evidence that points towards a planet that's waaaay older is ridiculous? Come on

And the part about all elements existing in plants/soil to produce an actual human being... are you on crack or something?

In other words, slaves were treated quite well.

Slavery is slavery. It's essentially still forced work in which one human being is considered the property of another... why would god think slavery is okay? Why would it be needed? Again, you didn't address the actual question. <_< And even though I don't really have much to back this up... I bet slaves weren't threated as well as described in those texts Sounds like an implemented excuse to justify slavery or something, haha.

About the no evidence left behind thing... can't really say much to that, maybe the question itself is worded a bit strange.

I'll address the others a bit later, I shall go have dinner now!

Originally Posted by Noogah

1.Why not? Well why so? He may not heal them, but he helps them. God let's nature work the way it was made to work. He doesn't ignore the prayers, but that doesn't necessarily mean he will heal the lost limb. God still has a perfect plan for their life, and can see the bigger picture that others cannot see. How can one know that path the amputee may have treaded had he not lost the limb? Perhaps he would have died.

Are you saying that nature works in its place outside of God? God does not dictate nature?

The point is that God does not perform miracles of obvious distinction.

The point is that praying is pointless.

2. Yes people are starving! Why don't you help them? Seems to me that God has given us PLENTY of money to help starving countries. Instead of wasting money on the fancy computer you're using right now, why didn't you use it to buy food? Why would God worry about a Christian's raise when there are starving children in the world? Guys, think about it. That's good stuff right there. The thousands of dollars that an average person will waste on luxuries COULD be put to good use.

So, in response to, "Why does God let people starve?" you say that it is our responsibility to help them..?

By your logic, if my neighbor is starving his child, I should feed the child.

Why not beat the parents ass?

3. All those verses are in the old testament, and were given as laws to the Jews. This was done before Jesus' death, and was the only way for one to be able to be saved in the future. It's tough, but that's why Jesus had to die to keep us from following so much. We no longer have to obey those judgments, but should still obey the commandments.Trivial offenses? They might be trivial in the physical realm, but they sure aren't where God is.

God still demands deaths of people in the new testament. The quotations are prolific and you ought to know this.

4. What? Those aren't anti-scientific. Yes, God made the world in six days, six thousand years ago....why is that ridiculous?

Because evidence proves that it was not created that way. Do you need me to post the LHC video for you again?

Yes, a flood covered mount Everest, before it ever even became a mountain. (There is enough water in the oceans alone to cover the world in a mile of water)

No there was not. There is no evidence for this at all.

What about Jonah living in the belly of a fish? I don't even recall that God said he lived through that.

Because it is ridiculously stupid to believe someone lived in a fish. Do you seriously believe that?

The Bible doesn't say God created Adam from a "handful" of dust. You yourself knows that Plants get nutrition from the soil.

Animals get their nutrition from the plants, humans get nutrition from both. Ultimately, all elements required to produce a human exists in soil, or as the Bible says, the dust of the earth.

Adam and Eve don't exist and never did.

5. Yeah, but the Bible's definttion of slavery is a liiiiitttle bit different than ours.

In other words, slaves were treated quite well.

You're naive if you believe this. A simple review of your quotes alone shows; if it turns out your slave is hebrew, let him go. Also, slaves, do what your master says because he is, after all, christian.

You cannot seriously believe people treated SLAVES good. Do you?

6.Bad things to good people?

You missed the point. Please review it and try to be more insightful.

7.No evidence? What kind of evidence do you want? Jesus turned water to wine. Exactly what kind of evidence do you expect to find?

A fossilized pot of water? The kind of miracles Jesus performed wouldn't necessarily leave behind evidence. Especially after 2,000 years worth of decay. Bread crumbs tend to mold after that kind of time.

Why do you not then believe the miracles performed by Mithras or Zarathustra? They are based on the same lines of proof.

8. Because Jesus isn't a wish granting machine. He isn't a genie that can be summoned, and commanded. He won't appear in the physical realm until the second coming. Prayer is communion. It's a relationship, and one can become spiritually close to him through prayer.

Prayer functions through self-fulfilling prophecy and confirmation bias.

9. We don't eat his flesh, or drink his blood.

In other words, bread is symbolic of his body, the drink was symbolic of his blood, and he commanded that when they ate, or drank that they do it in remembrance of him. It wasn't literally his body, or his blood.

Your quote alone says that it is his blood.

Furthermore, you are ignoring the question; why is he asking you to do it, even symbolically?

10. Because:

a.They are imperfect humans.

b.You can claim to be a Christian without being a Christian

c.You can also be a Christian that makes mistakes

We live in the age of Laodicea church. Half hearted, lukewarm Christians. It's sad indeed.

You are still ignoring the actual question; if all of the people watching the marriages are the witnesses to praying to God for the marriages success, then should not there but a difference between religious and nonreligious marriages?

Pay attention.

~

Originally Posted by Noogah

1.Why not? Well why so? He may not heal them, but he helps them. God let's nature work the way it was made to work. He doesn't

ignore the prayers, but that doesn't necessarily mean he will heal the lost limb. God still has a perfect plan for their life, and

can see the bigger picture that others cannot see. How can one know that path the amputee may have treaded had he not lost the

limb? Perhaps he would have died.

How can one know the path a person may have taken had they not gotten sick? Perhaps they would've died painfully. Why are sicknesses and wounds healed, but not entire limbs? Why does God save people from paralysis, but won't give back a lost arm?

Originally Posted by Noogah

2. Yes people are starving! Why don't you help them? Seems to me that God has given us PLENTY of money to help starving countries.

Instead of wasting money on the fancy computer you're using right now, why didn't you use it to buy food?

Why don't you? How are you typing this right now. The hypocrisy is astounding.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Why would God worry

about a Christian's raise when there are starving children in the world? Guys, think about it. That's good stuff right there. The

thousands of dollars that an average person will waste on luxuries COULD be put to good use.

Could be. But I don't have enough money to save all the starving children in 3rd world countries. Sure someone does, but some people are greedy. God knows that. I can't make the greedy people give away their money. I can't impose on freewill, and I don't have enough to do it myself as much as I may want to. So now the starving kids are essentially being punished and further suffering, why? Because a few rich people don't want to help, and those that do aren't rich enough? Now its our fault? God sure is a logical fellow.

Originally Posted by Noogah

3. All those verses are in the old testament, and were given as laws to the Jews.

Ah. Right. He gave those laws to the Jews. Makes it all okay.

Its alright if people die horribly, as long as its because of the Jews.

Originally Posted by Noogah

This was done before Jesus' death, and was the

only way for one to be able to be saved in the future. It's tough, but that's why Jesus had to die to keep us from following so

much.

So let me get this straight.

1. God creates flawed and faulty humans.
2. God creates some of these humans with a tendency towards "sinful" things.
3. God says people who do sinful things will be punished.
4. God tells people to kill people who do sinful things, even though killing anyone even if their sinful is sinful
5. God has a son and sends him to die so that we can do sinful things and not be punished for it.

Yeah, makes sense to me. God creates faulty humans, punishes them for their faults, has a son for the purpose of sending him to die because of the humans faults and then tells us that all the faulty people he told other people to kill deserved it because those laws were given to Jewish people before he sent his son to die for the faults of the people he created like that. I follow.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Trivial offenses? They might be trivial in the physical realm, but they sure aren't where God is.

Yeah, I'm sure that sticking someones dongle up your asshole is a big deal in God's world. Its those starving children that are trivial.

By the processes of deduction, God lives in Bizzaro world.

Originally Posted by Noogah

4. What? Those aren't anti-scientific. Yes, God made the world in six days, six thousand years ago....why is that ridiculous?

Because the idea that the earth is only 6000 years old goes against everything scientific.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Yes, a flood covered mount Everest, before it ever even became a mountain. (There is enough water in the oceans alone to cover the

world in a mile of water)

Um, no.

Originally Posted by Noogah

5. Yeah, but the Bible's definttion of slavery is a liiiiitttle bit different than ours.






In other words, slaves were treated quite well.

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

So its okay to beat your slaves, as long as they don't die in 2 days.

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

Notice how they can get a male Hebrew slave to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent slave. What kind of family values are these?

The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

So these are the Bible family values! A man can buy as many sex slaves as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and screws them!


Yeah, slaves were treated really well.

Originally Posted by Noogah

7.No evidence? What kind of evidence do you want? Jesus turned water to wine. Exactly what kind of evidence do you expect to find?

A fossilized pot of water? The kind of miracles Jesus performed wouldn't necessarily leave behind evidence. [/quote]

Yeah, but because a book says he did it its all good and proven.

8. Because Jesus isn't a wish granting machine. He isn't a genie that can be summoned, and commanded. He won't appear in the

physical realm until the second coming. Prayer is communion. It's a relationship, and one can become spiritually close to him
through prayer.

Ahhh, so this is why he chooses to miraculously heal someone with cancer, but not heed the prayers of children in sweat shops or locked in basements and utilized in the sex trade.


Thanks Noogah. Christianity finally makes sense now!

Originally Posted by Noogah

1.Why not? Well why so? He may not heal them, but he helps them. God let's nature work the way it was made to work. He doesn't

ignore the prayers, but that doesn't necessarily mean he will heal the lost limb. God still has a perfect plan for their life, and

can see the bigger picture that others cannot see. How can one know that path the amputee may have treaded had he not lost the

limb? Perhaps he would have died.

You're making excuses for an omnipotent being, just as the video predicted. Do you realise how insulting that should be? An omnipotent being needs an excuse? LOL

2. Yes people are starving! Why don't you help them? Seems to me that God has given us PLENTY of money to help starving countries.

Instead of wasting money on the fancy computer you're using right now, why didn't you use it to buy food? Why would God worry

about a Christian's raise when there are starving children in the world? Guys, think about it. That's good stuff right there. The

thousands of dollars that an average person will waste on luxuries COULD be put to good use.

You're using a computer too, you don't live on the necessities of life while working a 9-5 job giving everything you don't need to charity. That makes you a hippocrate.

3. All those verses are in the old testament, and were given as laws to the Jews. This was done before Jesus' death, and was the

only way for one to be able to be saved in the future. It's tough, but that's why Jesus had to die to keep us from following so

much. We no longer have to obey those judgments, but should still obey the commandments.

Trivial offenses? They might be trivial in the physical realm, but they sure aren't where God is.

How come the christian bible isn't just the new testament with footnotes about the old testament where required?

4. What? Those aren't anti-scientific. Yes, God made the world in six days, six thousand years ago....why is that ridiculous?

Have you ever been to a science classroom?

Yes, a flood covered mount Everest, before it ever even became a mountain. (There is enough water in the oceans alone to cover the

world in a mile of water)

I'll humor you...Perhaps if all the water was sucked out of the ocean and the land was wrapped in plastic and the water was dumped in this would happen.

What about Jonah living in the belly of a fish? I don't even recall that God said he lived through that.

You don't recall what god said? Do you have 2 way convo's with him often? I'm pretty sure he gets out according to the bible...Even the fact that he lived in the belly of a fish, which would contain digestive acids...You know what those do?

5. Yeah, but the Bible's definttion of slavery is a liiiiitttle bit different than ours.


In other words, slaves were treated quite well.

Lol, exobite has sufficently covered this.

8. Because Jesus isn't a wish granting machine. He isn't a genie that can be summoned, and commanded. He won't appear in the

physical realm until the second coming. Prayer is communion. It's a relationship, and one can become spiritually close to him
through prayer.

9. We don't eat his flesh, or drink his blood.

In other words, bread is symbolic of his body, the drink was symbolic of his blood, and he commanded that when they ate, or drank that they do it in remembrance of him. It wasn't literally his body, or his blood.

Oh, so all the sudden symbolism is meaningless....

10. Because:

a.They are imperfect humans.

b.You can claim to be a Christian without being a Christian

c.You can also be a Christian that makes mistakes

We live in the age of Laodicea church. Half hearted, lukewarm Christians. It's sad indeed.

But of course you are non of the above.

Well, I'm not going to pay attention to anybody here except for O'nus because

1.I can't respond to everybody.

2.O'nus brings up the best points.

3.I owe him one anyway, because I closed my last thread before responding.

Originally Posted by O'nus

Are you saying that nature works in its place outside of God? God does not dictate nature?

Go will interfere but he will not often directly break a law of nature

Originally Posted by O'nus

So, in response to, "Why does God let people starve?" you say that it is our responsibility to help them..?

By your logic, if my neighbor is starving his child, I should feed the child.

Yes. God gave us fat and lazy Americans an amazing abundance of resources that we waste and abuse every day. Why should you say

"There are kids in starving countries! God should help them!" when you can get up and do it yourself?

No. Your neighbor has more than enough oppurtunity to feed his child. Tell the officials. Africans sometimes cannot no matter how

much they want, and that's the point.

Originally Posted by O'nus

God still demands deaths of people in the new testament.

Ya know what? Go read the Bible. I'm getting sick of all these assumptions.

Originally Posted by O'nus

Because evidence proves that it was not created that way. Do you need me to post the LHC video for you again?

No. First off, no. No evidence for something million year old world. No, that video provides a bunch hogwash labeled as evidence

that has already been debunked many times.

Originally Posted by O'nus

No there was not. There is no evidence for this at all.

Sure there is. Go watch a Kent Hovind tape. YES, YES, I KNOW! The guys had problems, alright? But that doesn't mean he didn't have

some good points. Especially when it came to evidence for a flood.

Originally Posted by O'nus

Because it is ridiculously stupid to believe someone lived in a fish. Do you seriously believe that?

The Bible never said he lived through the experience, as I said before.

[/QUOTE]Adam and Eve don't exist and never did.[/QUOTE]

Prove it.

Originally Posted by O'nus

You cannot seriously believe people treated SLAVES good. Do you?

In the 1800's? No. In Jesus' time? No. But that isn't the point. The point is, God does not condone treating a slave poorly.

Originally Posted by O'nus

Why do you not then believe the miracles performed by Mithras or Zarathustra? They are based on the same lines of

proof.

Because this is the first time I've heard of them.

Originally Posted by O'nus

Prayer functions through self-fulfilling prophecy and confirmation bias.

This really makes me mad. You have no perception of prayer, and until you actually can learn how to participate in it, I don't

want to hear another false judgement about it. I KNOW prayer, you don't. You make assumptions on it. I know for a fact that prayer

works. You don't. You can't prove it, and neither can I. I can prove it to myself, though.

Originally Posted by O'nus

Your quote alone says that it is his blood.

It says that it's bread.

Originally Posted by O'nus

Furthermore, you are ignoring the question; why is he asking you to do it, even symbolically?

In rememberance of him.

Originally Posted by O'nus

if all of the people watching the marriages are the witnesses to praying to God for the marriages success, then

should not there but a difference between religious and nonreligious marriages?

He does try to make it work, but humans have to do their part also. Fact is, most modern Christians just want it fast, cheap, and

easy, and so therefore do not.

(I hope I didn't sound too agressive in this debate. It sometimes comes out that way.)

Originally Posted by Noogah

Go will interfere but he will not often directly break a law of nature

What are miracles then?

Yes. God gave us fat and lazy Americans an amazing abundance of resources that we waste and abuse every day. Why should you say "There are kids in starving countries! God should help them!" when you can get up and do it yourself?

The point is that he is letting them starve - not that he should do something about it. Why is God allowing it to happen in the first place if he is loving?

No. Your neighbor has more than enough oppurtunity to feed his child. Tell the officials. Africans sometimes cannot no matter how much they want, and that's the point.

Still does not make sense - you say that we ought to fix other peoples wrongs? Why should I go do my best to help the suffering people in the east if God could save them himself? As a note, praying does not help either (as it still happens).

Also, is not God an authority? THE authority?

Ya know what? Go read the Bible. I'm getting sick of all these assumptions.

Okay, you want it, I will give it;

First of all, Jesus himself says that you ought not ignore the old testament;
+ Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Here they are;

Spoiler for Killing in the New Testament:

Matthew

Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire." 3:10, 12
Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17
Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30
Jesus says that most people will go to hell. 7:13-14
Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 7:19
"The children of the kingdom [the Jews] shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 8:12
Jesus tells a man who had just lost his father: "Let the dead bury the dead." 8:21
Jesus sends some devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the waters below. 8:32
Cities that neither "receive" the disciples nor "hear" their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks (see Gen.19:24). 10:14-15
Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." 10:21
Jesus says that we should fear God who is willing and "able to destroy both soul and body in hell." 10:28
Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36
Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24
Jesus will send his angels to gather up "all that offend" and they "shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." 13:41-42, 50
Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. 15:4-7
Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it's better to be "maimed" than to suffer "everlasting fire." 18:8-9
"And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors." 18:34
In the parable of the marriage feast, the king sends his servants to gather everyone they can find, both bad and good, to come to the wedding feast. One guest didn't have on his wedding garment, so the king tied him up and "cast him into the outer darkness" where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 22:12-13
Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37
God will come when people least expect him and then he'll "cut them asunder." And "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 24:50-51
The servant who kept and returned his master's talent was cast into the "outer darkness" where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." 25:30
Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire." 25:41
Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever. 25:46
Mark

Jesus explains why he speaks in parables: to confuse people so they will go to hell. 4:11-12
Jesus sends devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. When the people hear about it, they beg Jesus to leave. 5:12-13
Any city that doesn't "receive" the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 6:11
Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) 7:9-10
If you're ashamed of Jesus, he'll be ashamed of you. (And you'll go straight to hell.) 8:38
Jesus tells us to cut off our hands and feet, and pluck out our eyes to avoid going to hell. 9:43-49
Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don't will be damned. 16:16
Luke

God strikes Zacharias dumb for doubting the angel Gabriel's words. 1:20
Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 3:9
John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned "with fire unquenchable." 3:17
Jesus heals a naked man who was possessed by many devils by sending the devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the sea. This messy, cruel, and expensive (for the owners of the pigs) treatment did not favorably impress the local residents, and Jesus was asked to leave. 8:27-37
Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples. 10:10-15
Jesus says that we should fear God since he has the power to kill us and then torture us forever in hell. 12:5
Jesus says that God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves "with many stripes." 12:46-47
"Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." 13:3, 5
According to Jesus, only a few will be saved; the vast majority will suffer eternally in hell where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 13:23-30
In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man goes to hell, because as Abraham explains, he had a good life on earth and so now he will be tormented. Whereas Lazarus, who was miserable on earth, is now in heaven. This seems fair to Jesus. 16:19-31
Jesus believed the story of Noah's ark. He thought it really happened and had no problem with the idea of God drowning everything and everybody. 17:26-27
Jesus also believes the story about Sodom's destruction. He says, "even thus shall it be in the day the son of man is revealed ... Remember Lot's wife." This tells us about Jesus' knowledge of science and history, and his sense of justice. 17:29-32
In the parable of the talents, Jesus says that God takes what is not rightly his, and reaps what he didn't sow. The parable ends with the words: "bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by him] hither, and slay them before me." 19:22-27
John

Jesus believed the stupid and vicious story from Numbers 21. (God sent snakes to bite the people for complaining about the lack of foood and water, and then God told Moses to make a brass snake to cure them from the bites.) 3:14
As an example to parents everywhere and to save the world (from himself), God had his own son tortured and killed. 3:16
People are damned or saved depending only on what they believe. 3:18, 36
The "wrath of God" is on all unbelievers. 3:36
Jesus believes people are crippled by God as a punishment for sin. He tells a crippled man, after healing him, to "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." 5:14
Those who do not believe in Jesus will be cast into a fire to be burned. 15:6
Jesus says we must eat his flesh and drink his blood if we want to have eternal life. This idea was just too gross for "many of his disciples" and "walked no more with him." 6:53-66
Acts

Peter claims that Deuteronomy 18:18-19 refers to Jesus, saying that those who refuse to follow him (all non-Christians) must be killed. 3:23
Peter and God scare Ananias and his wife to death for not forking over all of the money that they made when selling their land. 5:1-10
Peter has a dream in which God show him "wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls." The voice (God's?) says, "Rise, Peter: kill and eat." 10:10-13
Peter describes the vision that he had in the last chapter (10:10-13). All kinds of beasts, creeping things, and fowls drop down from the sky in a big sheet, and a voice (God's, Satan's?) tells him to "Arise, Peter; slay and eat." 11:5-6
The "angel of the Lord" killed Herod by having him "eaten of worms" because "he gave not God the glory." 12:23
David was "a man after [God's] own heart." 13:22
The author of Acts talks about the "sure mercies of David." But David was anything but merciful. For an example of his behavior see 2 Sam.12:31 and 1 Chr.20:3, where he saws, hacks, and burns to death the inhabitants of several cities. 13:34
Paul and the Holy Ghost conspire together to make Elymas (the sorcerer) blind. 13:8-11
Romans

Homosexuals (those "without natural affection") and their supporters (those "that have pleasure in them") are "worthy of death." 1:31-32
The guilty are "justified" and "saved from wrath" by the blood of an innocent victim. 5:9
God punishes everyone for someone else's sin; then he saves them by killing an innocent victim. 5:12
1 Corinthians

If you defile the temple of God, God will destroy you. 3:17
Paul claims that God killed 23,000 in a plague for "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab 10:8
If you tempt Christ (How could you tempt Christ?), you'll will die from snake bites. 10:9
If you murmur, you'll be destroyed by the destroyer (God). 10:10
2 Corinthians

The terror of the Lord 5:11
Galatians (None)
Ephesians

We are predestined by God to go to either heaven or hell. None of our thoughts, words, or actions can affect the final outcome. 1:4-5, 11
God had his son murdered to keep himself from hurting others for things they didn't do. 1:7
The bloody death of Jesus smelled good to God. 5:2
Those who refuse to obey will face the wrath of God. 5:6
Philippians (None)
Colossians

God bought us with someone else's blood. 1:14
God makes peace through blood. 1:19-20
1 Thessalonians

God is planning a messy, mass murder in "the wrath to come" and only Jesus can save you from it. 1:10
Christians shouldn't mourn the death of their fellow believers. They'll be OK and you'll see them later in heaven. The people you should mourn are dead nonbelievers. They have no hope (becasue they're going to hell). 4:13
2 Thessalonians

Jesus will take "vengeance on them that know not God" by burning them forever "in flaming fire." 1:7-9
Jesus will "consume" the wicked "with the spirit of his mouth." 2:8
God will cause us to believe lies so that he can damn our souls to hell. 2:11-12
1 Timothy (None)
2 Timothy (None)
Titus (None)
Philemon (None)
Hebrews

God will not forgive us unless we shed the blood of some innocent creature. 9:13-14, 22
Those who disobeyed the Old Testament law were killed without mercy. It will be much worse for those who displease Jesus. 10:28-29
The Israelites kept the passover and sprinkled blood on doorposts so that God wouldn't kill their firstborn children (like he did the Egyptians in Exodus 12:29). 11:28
God ordered animals to be "stoned, or thrust through with a dart" if they "so much as ... touch the mountain." 12:20
James

If you are merciless to others, God will be merciless to you. (Two wrongs make a right.) 2:13
James says Abraham was justified by works (for being willing to kill his son for God); Paul (Rom.4:2-3) says he was justified by faith (for believing that God would order him to do such an evil act). 2:21
1 Peter

We are all, according to Peter, predestined to be saved or damned. We have no say in the matter. It was all determined by "the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ."1:2
"The precious blood of Christ ... was foreordained before the foundation of the world."
God planned to kill Jesus from the get-go. 1:19-20
God drowned drowned everyone on earth except for Noah and his family. 3:20
2 Peter

God drowned everyone else on earth except for Noah and his family. 2:5, 3:6
God will set the entire earth on fire so that he can burn non-believers to death. 3:7
When Jesus returns, he'll burn up the whole earth and everything on it. 3:10
1 John

Jesus' blood washes away human sin. 1:7
2 John (None)
3 John (None)
Jude

"The Lord destroyed them that believed not." 5
Revelation

Jesus "washed us ... with his own blood." 1:5
Everyone on earth will wail because of Jesus. 1:7
Jesus has "the keys of hell and death." 1:18
Repent -- or else Jesus will fight you with the sword that sticks out of his mouth. (Like the limbless knight in Monty Python's "Holy Grail.") 2:16
"I [Jesus] will kill her children with death." 2:23
"Thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." God created predators, pathogens, and predators for his very own pleasure. One of his favorite species is guinea worms. 4:11
"Thou art worthy ... for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood." 5:9
God gives someone on a white horse a bow and sends him out to conquer people. 6:2
God gave power to someone on a red horse "to take from the earth ... that they should kill one another." 6:4
God tells Death and Hell to kill one quarter of the earth's population with the sword, starvation, and "with the beasts of the earth." 6:8
The martyrs just can't wait until everyone else is slaughtered. God gives them a white robe and tells them to wait until he's done with his killing spree. 6:10-11
God tells his murderous angels to "hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of your God on their foreheads." This verse is one that Christians like to use to show God's loving concern for the environment. But the previous verse (7:2) makes it clear that it was their God-given job to "hurt the earth and the sea" just as soon as they finished their forehead marking job. 7:3
144,000 Jews will be going to heaven; everyone else is going to hell. 7:4
Those that survive the great tribulation will get to wash their clothes in the blood of the lamb. 7:14
God sends his angels to destroy a third part of all the trees, grass, sea creature, mountains, sun, moon, starts, and water. 8:7-13
"Many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter." 8:11
The angels are instructed not to "hurt the grass [how could they? He already had all the grass killed in 8:7] ... but only those men which have not the seal of God on their foreheads." God tells his angels not to kill them, but rather torment them with scorpions for five months. Those tormented will want to die, but God won't let them. 9:4-6
God makes some horse-like locusts with human heads, women's hair, lion's teeth, and scorpion's tails. They sting people and hurt them for five months. 9:7-10
Four angels, with an army of 200 million, killed a third of the earth's population. 9:15-19
Anyone that messes with God's two olive trees and two candlesticks (God's witnesses) will be burned to death by fire that comes out of their mouths. 11:3-5
God's witnesses have special powers. They can shut up heaven so that it cannot rain, turn rivers into blood, and smite the earth with plagues "as often as they will." 11:6
After God's witnesses "have finished their testimony," they are killed in a war with a beast from a bottomless pit. 11:7
Their dead bodies lie unburied for three and a half days. People will "rejoice over them and make merry, and shall send gifts to one another." After another three and half days God brings his witnesses back to life and they ascend into heaven. 11:8-12
When the witnesses ascend into heaven, an earthquake kills 7000 men. This was the second woe. "The third woe cometh quickly." 11:13-14
"The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world"
God planned to kill Jesus before he created the world. 13:8
Those who receive the mark of the beast will "drink of the wine of the wrath of God ... and shall be tormented with fire and brimstone ... and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever." 14:10-11
Jesus sits on a white cloud with a sharp sickle in his hand. When the angel tells him to reap, he kills all the people with his sickle. 14:14-18
"The great winepress of the wrath of God ... was trodden ... and the blood cam out of the winepress, even unto the horses bridles." 14:19-20
Seven angels with seven plagues are filled with the wrath of God. 15:1, 15:7
The seven vials of wrath: 1) sores, 2) sea turned to blood, 3) rivers turned to blood, 4) people scorched with fire, 5) people gnaw their tongues in pain, 6) Euphrates dries up, 7) thunder, lightning, earthquake, and hail. 16:1
"There fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast." 16:2
"The second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea." 16:3
"The third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood." 16:4
God gave the saints and prophets blood to drink. 16:6
An angel tells God how righteous he is because he gives saints blood to drink. 16:7
"Power was given unto him [the fourth angel] to scorch men with fire." 16:8
Those who were being burned to death by God didn't repent "to give him glory." 16:9
"The fifth angel poured out his vial ... and they gnawed their tongues for pain." 16:10
Even after being burned alive, those nasty people wouldn't repent! 16:11
Christians will fight in the war between Jesus and those allied with the beast. 17:14
"They shall eat her flesh and burn her with fire." (Are they going to eat her first and then burn her?) 17:16-17
To punish her God will send plagues and famine, and "she will be utterly burned with fire." 18:8
God will send plagues, death, and famine on Babylon, and the kings "who have committed fornication with her" will be sad to see her burn. 18:8-9
Jesus makes war. 19:11
Jesus's clothes are dipped in blood and his secret name ("that no man knew") is "The Word of God". (I bet you thought it was Jesus!) 19:13
With eyes aflame, many crowns on his head, clothes dripping with blood, a sword sticking out of his mouth, and a secret name, Jesus leads the faithful in heaven into holy war on earth. 19:14-15
"Come ... unto the supper of the great God." An angel calls all the fowls to feast upon the flesh of dead horses and human bodies, "both free and bond, both small and great." 19:17-18
The beast and the false prophet are cast alive into a lake of fire. The rest were killed with the sword of Jesus. "And all the fowls were filled with their flesh." 19:20-21
God will send fire from heaven to devour people. And the devil will be tormented "day and night for ever and ever." 20:9-10
Whoever isn't found listed in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. 20:15
All liars, as well as those who are fearful or unbelieving, will be cast into "the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." 21:8

No. First off, no. No evidence for something million year old world. No, that video provides a bunch hogwash labeled as evidence that has already been debunked many times.

If it was debunked, they would not be pursuing the research. Please provide this random nonsense you are saying because it is clear that you have no rebuttal with substance and just make stuff up.

Second of all;



The video you still seem to disregard which proves you wrong.

Sure there is. Go watch a Kent Hovind tape. YES, YES, I KNOW! The guys had problems, alright? But that doesn't mean he didn't have some good points. Especially when it came to evidence for a flood.

He is abundantly proven wrong. You ought to know this. You ask me to go read your bible, which I have, now respectfully do the same and avoid being a hypocrite.

Evidence of the Earth being 600 million years old;
+ http://books.google.ca/books?hl=en&l...idence&f=false

Evidence of Human Fossils Being 3 Million Years Old:
+ http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten.../245/4924/1343

The Bible never said he lived through the experience, as I said before.

If you read your bible properly, you would see (Jonah 1:17-2:10) that it says he lived in there for at least three days.

That is impossible.

Adam and Eve don't exist and never did.

Prove it.

Not a problem!

Humans Dynamic Skeletons that are 3 Million Years old:
+ http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten.../245/4924/1343

The Ascension or Evolution of Man Through Other Animals and Chimpanzee's
+ http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...fa51501d644eaa

Genetic Display of Humans Relation to Other Animals
+ http://www.sciencemag.org/content/vo...16_238_F1.jpeg

Genetic Relation to Chimps
+ http://www.wired.com/news/images/ful...himp_dna_f.jpg

There was no Adam and Eve.

In the 1800's? No. In Jesus' time? No. But that isn't the point. The point is, God does not condone treating a slave poorly.

Wrong.

It abundantly states you can do whatever you want with slaves. If you read the bible, you would know this. I will give you passages now;

Spoiler for New Testament and Slavery:

Luke 12:45-48: "The lord [owner] of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."

Exodus 21:2
If thou buy an Hebrew servant....
Exodus 21:7
If a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant....
Exodus 21:20-21
And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
Exodus 22:3
If he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.
Leviticus 22:11
If the priest buy any soul with his money....
Leviticus 25:39
And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee....
Leviticus 25:44-46
Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever.
Ephesians 6:5
Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ.
Colossians 3:22
Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God.
1 Timothy 6:1
Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.
Titus 2:9-10
Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again; Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.
1 Peter 2:18
Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

Because this is the first time I've heard of them.

You make a good point - if you heard them first.. you'd likely be indoctrinated to their system of beliefs instead.

This really makes me mad. You have no perception of prayer, and until you actually can learn how to participate in it, I don't want to hear another false judgement about it. I KNOW prayer, you don't. You make assumptions on it. I know for a fact that prayer works. You don't. You can't prove it, and neither can I. I can prove it to myself, though.

It can be proven and has been. You can do it yourself. Watch the video to see how you are deluding yourself.

Praying does nothing but offer subjective emotional feedback. It cannot affect anything in the outside world. The only thing prayer does is equivalent to meditating.

It says that it's bread.

Pay attention; I said that your quote alone says that the blood is his blood. I said nothing about the bread.

Also, you are still avoiding the question.

Not surprising. I would avoid certain questions to if I desperately wanted to hold onto my religious beliefs that are in the face of undeniable proof.

In rememberance of him.

That is not answering the question; why did he choose to symbolically eat him and drink his blood? Why not just pray? A mundane point really.

He does try to make it work, but humans have to do their part also. Fact is, most modern Christians just want it fast, cheap, and easy, and so therefore do not.

If he does try, then why is there no difference in the divorce rate between religious and non-religious?

Another point as to how prayer does nothing. In this respect, even for individuals.

(I hope I didn't sound too agressive in this debate. It sometimes comes out that way.)

Thank you for your modesty, but you ought to know that it does not bother me. I will tell you when I am getting emotional.

~

Originally Posted by Noogah

Go watch a Kent Hovind tape. YES, YES, I KNOW! The guys had problems, alright? But that doesn't mean he didn't have

some good points. Especially when it came to evidence for a flood.

Noogah, Kent Hovind doesn't know the first thing about physics or biology, he's a complete idiot.







These are some earlier videos by thunderf00t which explain Hovind's stupidity in good detail.

interesting...

Oh boy. I've got my work cut out for me.

Fortunately though, it's the weekend. I am getting to this AFTER the weekend.

Don't waste time telling me not to, because I won't be checking this thread until AFTER the weekend.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Oh boy. I've got my work cut out for me.

Fortunately though, it's the weekend. I am getting to this AFTER the weekend.

Don't waste time telling me not to, because I won't be checking this thread until AFTER the weekend.

I love how this kid plays the same tune over and over.

*Ridiculous claim*

*Forum cries* Nuh-ah, that's ridiculous and wrong

Noogah: Prove it!

*Forum replies in droves*

Noogah: Too much reading, too many big words, ah my precious weekend, I must stall for time until this thread drops off the front page! I won't allow your logic and common sense to pierce my veil of blind faith!


And Noogah, if this offends you, prove me wrong. Just once. Watch every video in this thread, and answer the questions posed to you, not just the ones you choose to answer. I issue this personal challenge to you. If your faith is as strong as you profess it is, then it can stand up to ANY evidence to the contrary, because you 'know' you are right. Only the truth - the real truth - can stand up to hard scrutiny.

Don't be a hypocrite.

And just to see if he's telling the truth or not about not looking here until Monday: Last Activity: Today 05:09 PM. 3 hours after your last post.

Just wanted to point out one particular funny thing I stumpled upon..:

God will interfere but he will not often directly break a law of nature

Do you know what a miracle is?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle

A miracle is a perceptible interruption of the laws of nature

Just saying...

You could also apply it to events such as surviving a natural disaster (as the wiki article gives as example), although indirect events like this is just in no way a "proof" of miracles in the first place, as there could be a lot of other reasons as to why it happened, thus making it a whole lot easier to dismiss than a leg growing back out

Sigh...

Nooguh, how long can you play these games over and over? I can't imagine someone retaining their sanity by continuing to believe in something false while everyone around you is telling you what is scientifically correct. You have to come to grips with the FACT that science is right, and Christianity is wrong...at lest from a scientific point of view.

No. First off, no. No evidence for something million year old world. No, that video provides a bunch hogwash labeled as evidence

that has already been debunked many times.

Please show us how all of Onus' evidence has been debunked. Provide us with unbiased articles, information, videos, whatever. www.creationists.com does not count as a credible source.

This really makes me mad. You have no perception of prayer, and until you actually can learn how to participate in it, I don't

want to hear another false judgement about it. I KNOW prayer, you don't. You make assumptions on it. I know for a fact that prayer

works. You don't. You can't prove it, and neither can I. I can prove it to myself, though.

You are making assumptions that he does not know prayer. It seems like he knows what prayer is more than you do. That is, confirmation bias. Prayer is nothing more than a one way conversation with an imaginary character. Sometimes he helps you out, other times he is "working in mysterious ways"...... :rollseyes:

1. He does. People with missing legs can still walk and move around in most cases. Being cured isn't regrowing your leg, but regaining the ability to walk again. Anything that allows you to walk, helps you. If you just use your arms to walk around, you are still walking. So it is possible for an amputee to get relief, even if they do not regenerate.

2. People are starving because of the direct result of other human beings. There is enough food in the world for everyone to eat. The limiting factor is due to human interference such as politics. God doesn't directly enforce his will over people, people have to decide to follow him on their own.

3. The bible isn't the word of god, but the interpretation of it by humans, some of which were not good people.

4. Ditto

5. Ditto

6. Bad things happen to everyone. God doesn't promise ever lasting life, until you are in heaven. There is no claim saying bad things will never happen to good people.

7. Was a very long time ago.

8. I like noogahs answer. "Because Jesus isn't a wish granting machine. He isn't a genie that can be summoned, and commanded."

9. It is just a representation of people trying to get closer to god.

10. Its a promise made by human in front of a god, and not a promise made by god himself. Meaning that as humans, people can follow it or not follow it.

None of the answers I gave, are crazy or weird or overly silly. The video only works for people who believe the bible is 100 percent accurate, and that god activity interferes in the life of all humans. It makes no attempt at all to refute a Christians religion, if that Christian believes that the bible does have mistakes and that prayers are answered spiritually and not physically.

Originally Posted by Alextanium

And just to see if he's telling the truth or not about not looking here until Monday: Last Activity: Today 05:09 PM. 3 hours after your last post.

In the last 24 hours Noogah has posted 24 posts.

Lying for Jesus, one day at a time.

He does. People with missing legs can still walk and move around in most cases. Being cured isn't regrowing your leg, but regaining the ability to walk again. Anything that allows you to walk, helps you. If you just use your arms to walk around, you are still walking. So it is possible for an amputee to get relief, even if they do not regenerate.

I'm kinda confused about what exactly you're trying to say god helps with here? And the walking around with your arms is a lousy example as it is deffinately not something an ordinary person could use as any sort of help on a day-to-day basis in a modern society. Nowhere in your explanation do you justify the fact that it is god himself "healing"(whatever meaning you put behind that word) amputees.

People are starving because of the direct result of other human beings. There is enough food in the world for everyone to eat. The limiting factor is due to human interference such as politics. God doesn't directly enforce his will over people, people have to decide to follow him on their own.

As Nogaah you start to blame humans, of course it is in the end our fault as that is a result of our existence, BUT that is still not what the question is about, it's why God wouldn't wanna help them. What you just did is as the video described, you came up with an excuse on behalf of god to explain why he wouldn't do it. It also adds to the belief of power of prayer, as not helping them would mean that he's ignoring their prayers. And for the people that believe in the power of prayer, why would he ignore their prayers, and at the same time fulfill your own? (awesome video supplied by O'nus by the way)

The bible isn't the word of god, but the interpretation of it by humans, some of which were not good people.

Then what source do you use for the actual words? How do you know what they really are then? It's hard to argue about something that isn't properly defined in the first place. And more importantly, why would god allow his own official words to be twisted and misused to something of such importance? He really should publish his own goddamn book

I like noogahs answer. "Because Jesus isn't a wish granting machine. He isn't a genie that can be summoned, and commanded.

Did he tell you that personally or? <_< How exactly would you know? Again, it's an excuse on the behalf of him as to why he wouldn't do it.

7, 9 and 10 and actually don't have anything to add to right now.

None of the answers I gave, are crazy or weird or overly silly. The video only works for people who believe the bible is 100 percent accurate, and that god activity interferes in the life of all humans. It makes no attempt at all to refute a Christians religion, if that Christian believes that the bible does have mistakes and that prayers are answered spiritually and not physically.

At the same time it also adds another interesting point which is that religion is so loosely defined with millions of religious people having their own ideas about how it all works, in which ways god work and so on, that it becomes hard to apply one set of arguments to frequently asked questions like those of the video. I guess in the end it becomes impossible to argue against because it isn't even properly defined in the first place.

Originally Posted by Alric

10. Its a promise made by human in front of a god, and not a promise made by god himself. Meaning that as humans, people can follow it or not follow it.

So it is not a blessed union, one that cannot be broken once it has been agreed upon, in the name of god? Why there are then so much fancy words about how this marriage is fortificated by faith and the creator?

I would be pretty upset if somebody swore on my name and then go around breaking that vow. Luckily, imaginary beings rarely execute vengeance.

Originally Posted by Alric

None of the answers I gave, are crazy or weird or overly silly. The video only works for people who believe the bible is 100 percent accurate, and that god activity interferes in the life of all humans. It makes no attempt at all to refute a Christians religion, if that Christian believes that the bible does have mistakes and that prayers are answered spiritually and not physically.

But if Bible do have mistakes, it rules out the possibility of
a) an all-knowing god
b) the fact that bible should be a word of god.

now if the bible isn't authentic word of god, rather than the translation by humans and therefore written by humans. Well, bucket lost it's bottom really. How can you be sure what else is false?