God is the ultimate lucid dreamer

[Conkt]

Ok, let's set up a little scenario. Let's say you just got a pill that can put you in an infinitely long lucid dream. You can do whatever you want. How likely are you to create a little ball covered in people, and punish them when they make mistakes? It just doesn't seem very logical. This god fellow can do whatever he wants, he is completely limitless, and all he does is play the sims? That's the model of god that most religions have. Now, I'm not omnipotent, but this does seem a little strange. Discus.

[C-Fonz]

What else would he do, the human race is the ultimate entertainment center.

[Noogah]

Excuse me...you're assuming that God is having a lucid dream. Life isn't a dream. There are some definite laws that have got to be followed. Meaning no offense, but you're right. You're not omnipotent, and can't see the full picture like an omnipotent God can.

[Conkt]

I'm not saying god is having a lucid dream, I'm simply comparing the two. For god, life would be as a lucid dream, only more stable, as if he imagines something, he can have it. Why then, would he want to make - and punish - mankind, unless he is some sort of sadist (which he is not, by virtue of being god)

[gameover]

I think the universe is an unbiased thing. Yet many laws of religions seem to be profoundly good advice. If I live a sinful life, my soul feels clouded and lost. I don't feel so wonderful. I imagine if I was a truly horrible person, I would also feel truly horrible. When I act honorably, I feel like the universe is on my side. I don't know why that is but it definitely is. I think religious scholars have always studied their minds and their world, looking for answers. The model of a punishing god, I believe, is a misunderstanding of these philosophies. It's like martial artists teachings. It's better to work with the universe than to fight it. If you work with it, the whole world is on your side. You can do things you never thought possible. But if you work against it, the universe will destroy you. I think thats where the idea of a God punishing you for not acting in a certain way came from. Does that make sense? EDIT: Basically, I think the religious laws are the same as ,say, a mountain climbers "rules" or guidelines for climbing a mountain. You certainly don't have to follow them but it would be wise for you to listen.

[Bonsay]

You can't be serious. So you're actually saying that there is an initial logical standpoint which everybody must make, which is "God exists", and that people who couldn't handle it made evolution? Now that's a real delusion. It's funny because it's the other way around really. Science is the one which deals with reality. If anything was ever made because "reality is tough" it's religion. Instead of asking question about the nature your own existence you say "there is a soul", instead on doing research in molecular biology you say "cells can't exist because I can't understand them", instead of studying lightning you say "Thor did it"... are you serious? Evolution, based on numerous fossils, intermediates, molecular evidence is suddenly not real? When did this happen?

[Mes Tarrant]

I thought that picture was sarcastic. Guess I was wrong.

[Noogah]

You can't be serious. So you're actually saying that there is an initial logical standpoint which everybody must make, which is "God exists", and that people who couldn't handle it made evolution? Now that's a real delusion. It's funny because it's the other way around really. Science is the one which deals with reality. If anything was ever made because "reality is tough" it's religion. Instead of asking question about the nature your own existence you say "there is a soul", instead on doing research in molecular biology you say "cells can't exist because I can't understand them", instead of studying lightning you say "Thor did it"... are you serious? Evolution, based on numerous fossils, intermediates, molecular evidence is suddenly not real? When did this happen? You kidding??? What's so tough about believing I'm random thread of molecules? Sorry buddy. Evolutionists have it easy-sneezy.

[Bonsay]

You kidding??? What's so tough about believing I'm random thread of molecules? Sorry buddy. Evolutionists have it easy-sneezy. It's tough because we don't know what a molecule or anything else is except for the way it exists relative to something else. While any religious belief has it all figured out. Beside that, "threads" of molecules aren't random, they conform to their chemical characteristics.

[Invader]

Conkt, apologies in advance for falling into this thread hijack with the evolution spam. I actually think it's ridiculous that it can't be kept to it's own threads (of which many have surfaced). You kidding??? What's so tough about believing I'm random thread of molecules? Two things. One: Are you implying that the difficulty of a belief is positively correlated to its level of truth? Two: You're applying the property of randomness (which is a characteristic of the process of evolution) to evolution as a whole. The end result is anything but random. Also, Conkt, it might help to consider that these hypothetical people are merely vessels through which this 'god' would experience whatever world comes from it. If you were nothing but imagination floating in 'nothingness' (that is to say, you can imagine/dream and experience nothing outside of it (Because there IS nothing outside of it!)) then you'd likely go about imagining/dreaming through every possible scenario you could conjure up. One possibility is experiencing a world like ours through the personalities of billions of different people. Play with the idea a little.

[Conkt]

I don't mind in the least, Invader. You can't limit philosophy. That's actually a really good point you made in that ending paragraph. I don't have a rebuttal. If I were god, I might actually do that. It's definitely a new dream goal for me. However, it does not lead one to worship god, or perform any of the rituals that the religions of the world practice. Noogah is right. Evolution is a fairly simple idea. Life occurred spontaneously by proteins coming together in the right conditions at random. It then duplicated, slowly mutating and becoming more advanced through natural selection. It doesn't take any advanced thought to grasp. The idea of god, however, is extremely complicated. This old white man who lives on a cloud created matter through an unknown for of what could be called magic. He created the entire universe in six days, and sent his son to usher souls from Earth to a magical kingdom on the clouds. That's insanely complicated. Spoiler for Linchpin: Occam's razor

[Maria92]

Conkt, I agree with you 100%. Good on ya, bro. What I don't get is why so many people treat science like it's voodoo. If anyone would be willing to explain this, I'd be most appreciative.

[Conkt]

It's because the average person understands neither. It's funny, as the majority of Christians don't know what their religion is about. Most haven't even read the bible. I asked a friend of mine what religion she is, and she said Christian. I said that's not very descriptive, then asked is she Lutheran, Anglican, Catholic? She said that Catholics aren't Christian . Furthermore, she didn't know what church she belonged to. "the one with all the black people" was her response. Sadly, this is representative of the majority of Christians I've met.

[legonut4]

It's because the average person understands neither. It's funny, as the majority of Christians don't know what their religion is about. Most haven't even read the bible. I asked a friend of mine what religion she is, and she said Christian. I said that's not very descriptive, then asked is she Lutheran, Anglican, Catholic? She said that Catholics aren't Christian . Furthermore, she didn't know what church she belonged to. "the one with all the black people" was her response. Sadly, this is representative of the majority of Christians I've met. I have never met a christian like that so mabye it was just her

[Conkt]

^ no, almost every Christian I know is ignorant.

[legonut4]

what do they say?

[Maria92]

^ no, almost every Christian I know is ignorant. Agreed. Also, I've noticed a surprising number are extremely hypocritical. I know of a lot of people who go to church every Sunday, yada yada. Whenever someone is mean to them they say, "that's not very Christian of you" or some other such nonsense. However, they have no problem with turning around and being just as "unChristian" to someone else. I find this funny.

[Noogah]

Ahem: If every "Christian" you've met is an idiot, does that mean that Christianity is idiotic? Does the small majority of Christians you've met represent all that have, do, and will exist? How do you know that the people you met were true Christians? Consider.

[gameover]

Ripping on Christian principles bases on a few regular peoples explanation of them would be like ripping on some math principles based on some average persons explanation of them.

[legonut4]

Ahem: If every "Christian" you've met is an idiot, does that mean that Christianity is idiotic? Does the small majority of Christians you've met represent all that have, do, and will exist? How do you know that the people you met were true Christians? Consider. well put

[Conkt]

If you take 100 random people, and ask them what their favorite type of cookies are, the results should be representative of a larger group. Say 75/100 random New Yorkers from different areas like chocolate chip. It can be reasonably deduced that approximately 75% of new yorkers prefer chocolate chip. I have come into contact with many Christians, in real life and on the internet. The majority were of similar intelligence described in my previous posts. I'm sure you've seen this, but I'll post it again for those who haven't:

[gameover]

You think 100 is a large enough sample size? Are you kidding me? And just look at all the problems with the Neilson ratings because, taking a sample survey and applying it to all ,it turns out, is very inaccurate. And that's with a much larger sample size than you just stated. IQ is a relatively new thing. It's very good at what it does but can not measure wisdom. Religion deals with matters science has not reached yet.

[Loaf]

If I decided to be a God in a dream, I probably wouldn't punish people but more or less try to impress them or blend in so I can change the world for better (purely for my ego). I imagine I might have nights where I would cause destruction for fun, but I don't have to play God to do that.

[Noogah]

Also, I think the conclusion is inaccurate. People who are Christians tend to have a low IQ, thus Christianity makes you poor/uneducated. Actually, the more commom trend is: People who are poor and uneducated tend to be Christians. You see, it is because they are poor/uneducated that they become Christians. They need a God, and have no material possesions holding them back. What have they to lose? The rich/er/educated have more material possesions, and do not feel the need for a god, and therefore are not Christians. Also, 100 people is not a good number. It should be more like, 10-100 thousand before I even care.

[apocalypse]

^^Too bad they didn't throw the ignorant fools overboard on Noah's ark Lucid dream gods are yellow.