Some Questions

[Kraftwerk]

I'm not trying to be a snarky-atheist disproving you're religion, but I have some questions about the Christian god. Or really a big question: The human race has free will. If god is omnipotent he would know that free will would lead the human race to be evil, thus the human race would do evil things. Why would he create us in a way that is inherently evil?

[juroara]

I'm theist, but I don't believe in what you call the 'Christian' God. I believe that God is not separate from us. All consciousness is an expression of Gods self. Here's my long rant! Free Will Free will is divine. God did not create or give you your free will. It already existed eternal. Your free will is the right to imagine, to think, to wonder, to fathom, and to experience anything you truly want to. The catch for humans is..............do you really know that which you truly want to experience? Evil? God didn't create us evil. And actually evil doesn't exist. Evil is and always has been the manifestation of fear or ignorance. Hate is rooted in either fear or ignorance. And fear is rooted in ignorance. Such as, being afraid of something you don't understand. Liberation from ignorance means to experience truth. We Are Perfect Perfect is not a static thing. It is a perpetual state of self transcendence. The whole reason this entire Universe exists is so God can express Godself. This self transcendence physically manifests as the expansion of the singularity into reality. It manfests as evolution. As us, learning, experiencing and self expressing. It's okay to experiment with self expression! God is not concerned or worried with the end result! This is an ANYTHING GOES UNIVERSE! The real crime is to stop this perpetual motion of self transcendence and self expression. In other words its OKAY to be ignorant. It's not okay to stop this flow. Anything that stops this flow for too long must 'die'. God Loves God - The Eternal Dance of Shiva Now God wanted to experience God - this created an eternal dance of self-love. It's also known as the Dance of Shiva. God loves God. God loves God so much, God wanted to create more of God to love. Now you can think, gee what a self centered God, but then you would be forgetting - you are God. And you are the God desperately seeking to love God. This God loving God is a complete and closed circle. When you love yourself, you love God. When you love God, you love others. Submitting to love is submitting to a divine dance that created everything (sex?). The circle always starts with YOURSELF. Self-love. All humans want to love and be loved. This is our desire to enter this divine dance. Creation - The Duality of God - A symbolic Story (where ignorance comes from) In the beginning all there was, was God. And this God is a singularity eternal. For anything to have been created, this singularity needed to literally divide. Because God could not cease being the singularity eternal, God divides Godself from within. And God first divides Godself into two equal divine complimentary halves. Alpha and Omega. And Alpha and Omega are contained within the Whole. Sacred Geometry expresses the singular God becoming the Yin and Yang, the Alpha and Omega, the Masculine and Feminine with this symbol The Vesica Piscis within the One. This is sacred geometry. This God is a singularity that divided (within) in order to create. If you continue this process of dividing the ONE circle into TWO forever you get a geometric pattern that is so rich, all geometric patterns within nature are said to be contained in it. Including all atomic structure. But understand that when this singularity, God, divided into the Alpha and Omega - God created duality. And creation can not exist without it. All of creation is ultimately an 'illusion'. Why? Because creation can never capture the true reality of God - the single point of Consciousness. And in this story, God is the only true reality because God is and always will be. We are this consciousness right now. Just like the geometric pattern, God continued to divide consciousness. Or rather consciousness descended into micro versions of its self. We are those micro versions of God, that is, our consciousness. And in dreams, we can meet our own micro versions as dream characters! Anything Goes - Even Forgetting Well, it was only a matter of time before consciousness was 'divided' so many times, it forgot its true source! So now you have God expressed into many micro-Gods who don't remember who they truly are! That's us. But this is an anything goes universe. God is not afraid of any and all self expression. And even forgetting who you truly are, that's okay! God knew this would happen, and God was not afraid to embark on our epic journey of self-discovery. Understand as we discover ourselves, God is discovering Godself. Its Okay Because All Illusions Either Transcend Or Die Its okay because God instilled certain Universal and cosmic laws that ensure that consciousness will always, always transcend it's own illusionary creations. Karma is one of these laws. Time is another. Time ensures that no illusion lasts forever; only change. Time accompanies another universal law, that all closed systems eventually die. A closed system is a creation that has stopped self transcending. And self transcending is the reason why this Universe exists! And anything that ceases to self transcend eventually dies, its energy reclaimed. Whether its some ancient critter going extinct, a empire collapsing, or even our mental constructs. That's right, even our philosophies, ideas and religions are created. And they must either transcend or die. This death is the ultimate liberation from something limiting us to truly express who we are. So, in other words. God did not create us evil. And God is not concerned with our 'evil'. Only that we transcend these limiting illusions, and express our true selves freely. Which from what I hear, is bliss! Btw. It's also destiny that all consciousness is eventually liberated from all illusion! Don't be afraid to truly express what's inside of you!

[Dannon Oneironaut]

Because from God's point of view, we are just dreaming. It isn't real. We are just dream characters in God's dream and anyone of us can become lucid and realize that we are God and we will realize that true freewill only comes with true lucidity. And with true lucidity God will return to the knowledge that we are God and there is no good and evil, just lucidity and unlucidity. But it is a true mystery and paradox: It reveals to me glimpses of all that was and shapes of things to come Like a lotus flower unfolding beneath the sun Revealing the clockwork and gears behind every landscape And the secrets of every wizard's cape reminding me that I am the one and you are also and you and you and you And together we all make up one self sharing in the delicious mystery that just one taste leaves us wanting that is sweeter than any satisfaction. Like soap bubbles merging.

[Koalaman]

I'm theist, but I don't believe in what you call the 'Christian' God. I believe that God is not separate from us. All consciousness is an expression of Gods self. Here's my long rant! Free Will Free will is divine. God did not create or give you your free will. It already existed eternal. Your free will is the right to imagine, to think, to wonder, to fathom, and to experience anything you truly want to. The catch for humans is..............do you really know that which you truly want to experience? Evil? God didn't create us evil. And actually evil doesn't exist. Evil is and always has been the manifestation of fear or ignorance. Hate is rooted in either fear or ignorance. And fear is rooted in ignorance. Such as, being afraid of something you don't understand. Liberation from ignorance means to experience truth. We Are Perfect Perfect is not a static thing. It is a perpetual state of self transcendence. The whole reason this entire Universe exists is so God can express Godself. This self transcendence physically manifests as the expansion of the singularity into reality. It manfests as evolution. As us, learning, experiencing and self expressing. It's okay to experiment with self expression! God is not concerned or worried with the end result! This is an ANYTHING GOES UNIVERSE! The real crime is to stop this perpetual motion of self transcendence and self expression. In other words its OKAY to be ignorant. It's not okay to stop this flow. Anything that stops this flow for too long must 'die'. God Loves God - The Eternal Dance of Shiva Now God wanted to experience God - this created an eternal dance of self-love. It's also known as the Dance of Shiva. God loves God. God loves God so much, God wanted to create more of God to love. Now you can think, gee what a self centered God, but then you would be forgetting - you are God. And you are the God desperately seeking to love God. This God loving God is a complete and closed circle. When you love yourself, you love God. When you love God, you love others. Submitting to love is submitting to a divine dance that created everything (sex?). The circle always starts with YOURSELF. Self-love. All humans want to love and be loved. This is our desire to enter this divine dance. Creation - The Duality of God - A symbolic Story (where ignorance comes from) In the beginning all there was, was God. And this God is a singularity eternal. For anything to have been created, this singularity needed to literally divide. Because God could not cease being the singularity eternal, God divides Godself from within. And God first divides Godself into two equal divine complimentary halves. Alpha and Omega. And Alpha and Omega are contained within the Whole. Sacred Geometry expresses the singular God becoming the Yin and Yang, the Alpha and Omega, the Masculine and Feminine with this symbol The Vesica Piscis within the One. This is sacred geometry. This God is a singularity that divided (within) in order to create. If you continue this process of dividing the ONE circle into TWO forever you get a geometric pattern that is so rich, all geometric patterns within nature are said to be contained in it. Including all atomic structure. But understand that when this singularity, God, divided into the Alpha and Omega - God created duality. And creation can not exist without it. All of creation is ultimately an 'illusion'. Why? Because creation can never capture the true reality of God - the single point of Consciousness. And in this story, God is the only true reality because God is and always will be. We are this consciousness right now. Just like the geometric pattern, God continued to divide consciousness. Or rather consciousness descended into micro versions of its self. We are those micro versions of God, that is, our consciousness. And in dreams, we can meet our own micro versions as dream characters! Anything Goes - Even Forgetting Well, it was only a matter of time before consciousness was 'divided' so many times, it forgot its true source! So now you have God expressed into many micro-Gods who don't remember who they truly are! That's us. But this is an anything goes universe. God is not afraid of any and all self expression. And even forgetting who you truly are, that's okay! God knew this would happen, and God was not afraid to embark on our epic journey of self-discovery. Understand as we discover ourselves, God is discovering Godself. Its Okay Because All Illusions Either Transcend Or Die Its okay because God instilled certain Universal and cosmic laws that ensure that consciousness will always, always transcend it's own illusionary creations. Karma is one of these laws. Time is another. Time ensures that no illusion lasts forever; only change. Time accompanies another universal law, that all closed systems eventually die. A closed system is a creation that has stopped self transcending. And self transcending is the reason why this Universe exists! And anything that ceases to self transcend eventually dies, its energy reclaimed. Whether its some ancient critter going extinct, a empire collapsing, or even our mental constructs. That's right, even our philosophies, ideas and religions are created. And they must either transcend or die. This death is the ultimate liberation from something limiting us to truly express who we are. So, in other words. God did not create us evil. And God is not concerned with our 'evil'. Only that we transcend these limiting illusions, and express our true selves freely. Which from what I hear, is bliss! Btw. It's also destiny that all consciousness is eventually liberated from all illusion! Don't be afraid to truly express what's inside of you! I think that most of the time people aren't scared for things because they don't understand them, but because acknowledging the meaning might have some threating implications for their self-image. I've been experiencing this a lot myself. And by projecting this onto others, I think I can see it a lot in others. I wasn't unable to understand. I just didn't want to understand.

[Indecent Exposure]

How can free will have already existed? I thought God was the first cause? How can anything exist without the hand of god having some part to play? Also Jurorra, where did you come by all of this information, and how do you know it to be true?

[Koalaman]

How can free will have already existed? I thought God was the first cause? How can anything exist without the hand of god having some part to play? Also Jurorra, where did you come by all of this information, and how do you know it to be true? Perhaps she considers God as being the same as free will. We are God.

[Dannon Oneironaut]

How can free will have already existed? I thought God was the first cause? How can anything exist without the hand of god having some part to play? Also Jurorra, where did you come by all of this information, and how do you know it to be true? If you are aware that you are dreaming, it is self evident, no dream character can convince you with logic, because in dreams have their own wierd logic, but it doesn't matter, the truth is self-evident. In the same way, if you are not aware that you are dreaming, and a dream character tells you that you are and gives you dream papers written by dream scientists that prove scientifically that you are dreaming, but you don't become aware of the dream, you may believe in it but you are still not lucid. It just becomes borrowed information but not true knowledge. So, this information is self evident to those who know it to be true through self-knowledge and any intellectual or rational, logical argument is futile. But don't take her word for it, know thyself... ************************************************** ******** God created the human race so that we could choose between good and evil and reap the consequences of our choices. But then he saw that we are always sinners even if we have good hearts so he sent his only son Jesus down to die for our sins so that all we have to do is believe that Jesus is our savior and we can enter Heaven after we die and be happy forever after, while all those stupid people who don't believe in Jesus go get tortured forever in Hell. But there are people who never heard of Jesus, they won't go to Hell I don't think, so that is why missionaries go to tell them about Jesus and tell them that they are evil. I know this to be true because the Bible tells me so, not because my heart does because my heart is evil and Satan always tries to lead me astray, so I just look to the Bible for guidance in all things, even though I haven't really read the whole thing. But people tell me what the Bible says and how to interpret it. I know that other religions also have scriptures that they say is God's word, but those books were written by people, only the Christian Bible was written by God. Well, it wasn't actually written by God literally of course but dictated by God and prophets wrote it down I think. But the other religions are all evil because it is really Satan misleading people. Jesus loves you but he will come back and kill all the bad people who don't believe that he is God's son, he will pour fire from the sky I think. I don't think that anybody is in heaven or hell yet, I think that they are all in their graves and only when Jesus comes back do they rise out of the graves and go to Heaven or Hell, but I am confused. Maybe you go to Heaven or Hell right after you die and Jesus doesn't judge you but saint Peter does. I need to talk to Billy Graham again to get some clarification on what I'm supposed to believe. Let me come back to the basics: God gave us freewill to test our love for him. If we love God then we should fear God and obey God. Adam and Eve disobeyed God in the garden of Eden so we are all guilty because we are all born of sin. But I think that you are asking, why did God create us so that we might not love him enough to obey him? Why did God create Lucifer knowing that he would rebel and become Satan? Maybe I got it all wrong! Maybe God didn't give us freewill to test us to see if we would obey him. Maybe God gave us evil so that we could have freewill! Maybe freewill is the gift! But that means that evil is necessary for freewill. And if freewill is good, then evil must be good. And that would mean that the only thing evil would be to deny someone their freewill. So, as long as I am not hurting anybody against their will or taking anybody else's freedom, I can do whatever I want and that would be OK? Then what is Jesus for? Maybe I should actually read the Bible myself and see what it says.

[Indecent Exposure]

Perhaps she considers God as being the same as free will. We are God. Perhaps, and perhaps more likely not. You seem to be one of those people that pops by every now and again and says things that make no sense at all in order to sound profound.

[Koalaman]

Perhaps, and perhaps more likely not. You seem to be one of those people that pops by every now and again and says things that make no sense at all in order to sound profound. You make it seem like I'm only saying these things in order to sound profound. I was trying to guess what juroara meant. Also at some point I actually believed that all living creatures were God. I was trying to find a connection between juroara and me. I want to learn and the things I say are real thoughts of mine. Perhaps you feel what I want to be through my posts and are interpreting that negatively.

[Jeff777]

Great posts juroara and DO.

[juroara]

You make it seem like I'm only saying these things in order to sound profound. I was trying to guess what juroara meant. Also at some point I actually believed that all living creatures were God. I was trying to find a connection between juroara and me. I want to learn and the things I say are real thoughts of mine. Perhaps you feel what I want to be through my posts and are interpreting that negatively. Language is difficult. You just want to convey to people in a clear concise way It becomes a problem though when what you're trying to convey can't really be expressed with words. People think you're just saying things to sound superior or better. Finding the right balance is hard.

[Zhaylin]

When Adam and Eve were created, they were perfect. God placed them in a perfect place where all their needs were met. They had one limitation- the tree in the center of the garden (the tree of the knowledge of good and bad). Everybody knows the story: Satan used a snake to entice Eve into eating from the tree, she then gave some to her husband to eat; they realized they were naked and God knew what they had done so he kicked them out of the garden. They no longer had the option of living forever and they passed sin and death on to their children etc. What a lot of people don't realize is why that was so important. God took care of them when they were in that garden. He provided everything they needed. When they turned around and ate from the tree, they said, in a sense: "We don't need you to boss us around anymore. We'll decide for ourselves what's good and bad." God has myriads of angels and undoubtedly, they were very curious about how God would handle things. By tempting Eve, Satan called into question God's right to rule (or govern) mankind. Who's right? Satan or God? We have free will. We show by our actions who we follow. No one is perfect and God doesn't expect perfection. But through studying the Bible and applying what we learn, we follow the example of Christ as perfectly as we can (we don't maliciously do things we KNOW God disapproves of). God's system wasn't flawed. It angers some people when they think all this hell on earth is taking place just so God can prove his point (we cannot successfully govern ourselves perfectly without God), but it takes humility and study to see the wisdom in God's actions. This life is bigger than us............