8 Hour Lucidity - Need Researchers

This is a personal goal that i have been pursueing for a little while.

Being lucid in other stages of sleep, not just REM (Main dream stage).

The ultimate goal is to be aware of myself, the whole way through the sleep process, from my head hitting the pillow to getting up in the morning. This means being aware (lucid) during light sleep, deep sleep, slow wave sleep (which is probably the hardest bit), aswell as the normal REM stage.

A tough task perhaps, but i've already had some brilliant experiences in attempting it.

First:

Is it possible?

Yes i fully believe it is possible to stay aware during all stages of sleep. My evidence comes from two main sources;

1. Tibetan monks have long been known to be able to do this, through simple meditation.

2. Sleep deprivation studies show that if someone stays awake for too long (about 5-7 days) their brain will actually go through the sleeping process, while they are awake and fully functionable. Here is part 2 of a documentry of what im talking about.
This man actually entered light, slow wave, and even REM sleep while he was awake. Pay close attention to 2:10 of that video.


Second:

Why bother?

What good would come out of remaining concious throughout all of the night?

Well i think it would greatly improve your strength of mind, your patience, sense of self - etc. And every dream would be a WILD.



This will probably take years to master. However i beleive i have already become lucid during non-rem stages of sleep - so it is quite possible.

Im going to use this thread to record any advancements i make, and i encourage anyone interested to do the same.

Well last night when i jumped into bed, i tried to remain concious for 90minutes so i could enter REM conciously from sleep onset.

When i say 'remain concious' i wasnt focusing on anything. I wasnt 'using energy' and it did infact feel like i was resting. It was not like i was sitting there thinking 'aww hurry up, im getting tired'. I just sat and enjoyed the random thoughts, sounds, and images that popped up.

I went for what must have been a good hour. Then the next thing i know, im in sleep paralysis - and have an awesome WILD. Afterwards i wake up and find that i was only in bed for about an hour and a half, meaning that i had WILD'd on the first sleep cycle and almost managed to stay aware for a full cycle.

Well, i foolishly took some 'Nightol' stuff cause i have a cold.

These tablets make you drowsy tho, so i fell alseep almost instantly i dont remember a THING.

No tabs tonight tho, so here goes!

good luck m8, i hope it works for u.

I wonder whether or not if the 'western' world is geared towards mental aspects as such and dedication that the Tibetan monks show. Their ambitions are on a religious scale and so therefore their depth of devotion is a lot stronger as this is part of their culture. But I’m sure you will overcome that aspect pretty damn easily! :D

It’s pretty cool that you can lie conscious for well over an hour as I lose patience really easily lol. If u could maybe put together a step by step when you become more :bowdown: attuned with this im sure many on Dreamviews members would be really grateful including myself!

Keep up the good work m8 :banana:

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Originally Posted by Niddiboy

good luck m8, i hope it works for u.

I wonder whether or not if the 'western' world is geared towards mental aspects as such and dedication that the Tibetan monks show. Their ambitions are on a religious scale and so therefore their depth of devotion is a lot stronger as this is part of their culture. But I’m sure you will overcome that aspect pretty damn easily! :D

It’s pretty cool that you can lie conscious for well over an hour as I lose patience really easily lol. If u could maybe put together a step by step when you become more :bowdown: attuned with this im sure many on Dreamviews members would be really grateful including myself!

Keep up the good work m8 :banana:

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Thanks for the encouragement dude! :D

Update:

Thinking without monologue (or without using words to think about things; eg; "hmm..i wonder why i just randomly thought about a cat") seems to be a good way to remain aware but also allowing your subconcious to take over and start throwing out random thoughts as you fall asleep, allowing you to fall deeper into the sleep process.

Focusing on a thought, or putting it into words - seems to stop the random thoughts from coming. This makes sense. I think the trick is to remain 'aware' but not to focus on the thoughts. In a way, 'hide' from your brain - Be there, but dont make any noise.

The problem is that throughout the day our awareness arises usually through us analysing things, questioning them, and running them through our brain. However in this case, you have to learn to be aware - without over assesing the thought itself, but this can lead you to loosing conciousness. Hmm. Its a tricky one.

I dont think this is something that i can just 'realise' how to do. I really think its something that needs excersised.

So off i go!........

Wow ;o I woke up after every sleep cycle last night, and had 2 perfect WILD's.

I can remember a bunch of non-lucids aswell.

I suppose its progress, =P

I used to do this almost every day for almost an hour. I used to have a bus that took me to school, and I would sleep on the bus. ( it was, indeed, almost an hour and a half getting to school ). I would go to sleep and be perfectly aware of myself and everything around me. I could hear and think, but I was asleep ( or maybe I achieved a high form of meditation on accident ). Either way, it was very cool and I could wake myself out of it in less than a second. The only thing was, I always woke up very tired and cold ( yes cold, felt like somebody put ice in my veins ).

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Originally Posted by oniman7

I used to do this almost every day for almost an hour. I used to have a bus that took me to school, and I would sleep on the bus. ( it was, indeed, almost an hour and a half getting to school ). I would go to sleep and be perfectly aware of myself and everything around me. I could hear and think, but I was asleep ( or maybe I achieved a high form of meditation on accident ). Either way, it was very cool and I could wake myself out of it in less than a second. The only thing was, I always woke up very tired and cold ( yes cold, felt like somebody put ice in my veins ).

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Oh Wow! Nice :D

Waiting for the results, good luck :goodjob:

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Originally Posted by roland3tr

Waiting for the results, good luck :goodjob:

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Thanks dude ^^

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Originally Posted by oniman7

I used to do this almost every day for almost an hour. I used to have a bus that took me to school, and I would sleep on the bus. ( it was, indeed, almost an hour and a half getting to school ). I would go to sleep and be perfectly aware of myself and everything around me. I could hear and think, but I was asleep ( or maybe I achieved a high form of meditation on accident ). Either way, it was very cool and I could wake myself out of it in less than a second. The only thing was, I always woke up very tired and cold ( yes cold, felt like somebody put ice in my veins ).

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Oh yea just wondering. Can you remember what your sort of thought pattern or attitude was as the time? What did you think about/did you think at all?

I did think, but it was more relaxed. I allowed random thoughts to come to me, but as you described it, I did think with sort of a "monologue". I think the busy, loud environment of the bus helped keep me kind of aware. I also seem to have a natural affinity for these things. My thought process was also sometimes based on what I was hearing around me or what I had going on at school that day.

Good luck in achieving this! It would be really cool if you do, this way you can get sleep AND not spend a third of your life being unconscoius.

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Originally Posted by oniman7

I did think, but it was more relaxed. I allowed random thoughts to come to me, but as you described it, I did think with sort of a "monologue". I think the busy, loud environment of the bus helped keep me kind of aware. I also seem to have a natural affinity for these things. My thought process was also sometimes based on what I was hearing around me or what I had going on at school that day.

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Ah i see. What about your body? Did you think about it/not think about it/not care?

I think ive done this as a child once.

Lol this sucks. I did everything as a child. Got stuck in SP, had accidental WILD's, which ofcourse all lead to nightmares.
Now i have to TRY to get these things -_-

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Originally Posted by Corpse

Good luck in achieving this! It would be really cool if you do, this way you can get sleep AND not spend a third of your life being unconscoius.

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Thankyou! :D

Cool, this would improve so much the things you can do in lucids, good luck with it.
Oh I has woke myself from lucids at 12/1 PM (1 hour or so after going to sleep) but dunno if that has anything to do with this <.<

Hey Dizko, I'll help you and be a subject.

Only problem is, how do I stay awake for 90 minutes without feeling bored?

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Originally Posted by A dreamer168

Hey Dizko, I'll help you and be a subject.

Only problem is, how do I stay awake for 90 minutes without feeling bored?

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Patience ;P

I dont feel bored because im just happy to be relaxing. Im not in school and while im lying in bed i have no responsibilites or duties.

Granted

But how do you stay awake?

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Originally Posted by A dreamer168

Granted

But how do you stay awake?

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Thats what im researching ^_^

Also it would help if other people were to try, come up with their own tactics and then share them.

Once my mom said it took me five minutes to wake me up, and yet I could remember the last three hours (of me sleeping) clearly, and I only heard her once! I think I'm going crazy.

From words to sounds, from sounds to feelings, from

Dizko, this

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Originally Posted by ClouD

From words to sounds, from sounds to feelings, from

Dizko, this

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Thanks ClouD, i was hoping you'd come along with a little pearl of wisdom. ;p

If i understand you right, you mean to first be aware of my inner 'words', like my monologue, then to drop that and focus on whatever internal sounds i hear. Then after that to be aware only of feelings. I'm guessing you don't mean physical feelings. And afterwards, to just...'be'.

Am i reading you right cap'n? o.0

Now, here, awareness, this.

Whatsoever is, is this.

Remain aware through any perception through day, through night.

Take whatever technique, just remain.

edit" whaaattttever.

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Originally Posted by ClouD

Now, here, awareness, this.

Whatsoever is, is this.

Remain aware through any perception through day, through night.

Take whatever technique, just remain.

edit" whaaattttever.

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Kay.

Lol.
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There's much to say about the topic, but not a right way to say it.

Divided attention is non-lucidity. Live life as a play, and whatever you do, do with undivided attention.

Be aware of anything or everything or nothing, just be. Accept lucidity as your undivided nature.

8 hour lucidity is not difficult. 8 hour non-lucidity is anemic from this perspective. Awareness is free will; awareness is life.

Sorry to ramble on.

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Originally Posted by ClouD

Lol.
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There's much to say about the topic, but not a right way to say it.

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I know, tell me about it. =P

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Originally Posted by ClouD

Be aware of anything or everything or nothing, just be. Awareness is free will; awareness is life.

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Well put. I agree.

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Originally Posted by ClouD

Sorry to ramble on.

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Dont be, i appreciate the input.

Update:

I seem to be able to get into a deeper from a sleep while remaining aware if i go to bed at a sensible time. I think if i go to bed late, my mind and body are desperate to get to sleep. I find that i don't get as many weird subconscious thoughts or images, and when i finally do, my attention/awareness becomes extremely hard to maintain. I find myself coming back to myself, thinking "Wow, almost lost it there". However when i go to bed at a normal time, like 9pm or half past, i can 'get lost' in these weird subconscious fantasies but still be fully aware. Makes sense i suppose. Awareness is natural and going to bed a sensible hour is probably natural aswell. Perhaps the decent into sleep is much faster if you stay up late and are therefore more tired - making it much harder to maintain awareness. And also perhaps the decent into sleep when you go to bed earlier is more gradual, allowing you to hold onto awareness.

I know im entering a deeper form of sleep because although i maintain awareness of myself, i loose awareness of external things, and of my body. My mind also 'feels' different. Its hard to explain but you know when you wake up in the morning (and if you were just in slow wave sleep) and your head feels all groggy? Almost like its buzzing, it thinks things all on its own. Its like that, and it feels nice. It feels natural and it really feels like im resting.
From now on im going to try to go to bed at sensible times.

Dizko, i found a really useful video, tried talking to you on msn but u wernt on, its TIM!!! hes got an even better tutorial.. and guess what on?? SCHEMA!!!!!! i was RC'ing all over the friggin place!

www.youtube.com/watch/6sdk76xtim

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Originally Posted by Niddiboy

Dizko, i found a really useful video, tried talking to you on msn but u wernt on, its TIM!!! hes got an even better tutorial.. and guess what on?? SCHEMA!!!!!! i was RC'ing all over the friggin place!

www.youtube.com/watch/6sdk76xtim

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GTFO XD

Once one of my friends had tested to stay awake for around 48 consuctive hours. She said she saw creepy images, heard weird sounds etc. Your quest sounds tempting, good luck. In summer I'll test different sleeping patterns, do some experiments as well.

haha I THOUGHT U MIGHT ENJOY

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Originally Posted by firat

Once one of my friends had tested to stay awake for around 48 consuctive hours. She said she saw creepy images, heard weird sounds etc. Your quest sounds tempting, good luck. In summer I'll test different sleeping patterns, do some experiments as well.

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Hmm interesting.

Yea the aim of my quest is to stay lucid through all sleep cycles, meaning that the user should not become sleep deprived, because technically they are still sleeping.

Glad of your interest ^^

UPDATE:

Well last night was interesting. I went to bed early and tried to remain aware as i fell asleep. I felt myself going but because of the noise from others in the house, i kept being startled.

After about 2 hours, i felt fine. I was peaceful, relaxed, and felt like i was asleep, but i must have been because REM hadn't started.
Anyway all of a sudden i began to get really angry, and i didnt really know why. I took a moment to chill out, and seperated myself from the anger. I was still angry, like i wanted to punch a wall in, but i was able to just observe the anger rather than 'be' the anger.
It was weird. I was laughing on the inside at this crazy amount of anger that seemed to come from nowhere.
It was probably my body wanting sleep so badly, after hovering so close it for such a long time.

Anyway, i'll need to tell my family to keep the noise down. :/

Im becoming aware during sleep paralysis a lot more often.

I had one DILD and two WILDs last night.

If anything, ill get more lucid dreams out of all this awareness practice.

Dizko!

Crap i've been trying to do what you are trying to do now also ever since i read jeff's tutorial on how to trick your body to fall asleep...

I can fully manage to lay there and stay aware and let my body fall asleep.

But i think my problem is i'm not able to just yet let my mind rest fully and completely so it can start sleeping.

But wow, this is so completely possible, and i will follow your thread and post any experiences i may have also.

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Focusing on a thought, or putting it into words - seems to stop the random thoughts from coming. This makes sense. I think the trick is to remain 'aware' but not to focus on the thoughts. In a way, 'hide' from your brain - Be there, but dont make any noise.

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Hearing this is going to help me out so much :D

Im keeping my self awake and aware but its alot harder to clear your mind and not focus on thoughts.... Well i guess the thing is, not to be awake, but still aware hehe...

Im a bit tired right now, im going to head back to bed, Good luck Dizko :)

It would be a pretty cool thing. I'd like to get there eventually too. Mind, I'm still waiting for my first LD!

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Originally Posted by Dizko

I had one DILD and two WILDs last night.

.

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Me too :D

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Originally Posted by ClouD

Be aware of anything or everything or nothing, just be. Accept lucidity as your undivided nature...

...Awareness is free will; awareness is life.

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What a beautiful concept.

Those that've replied before me have stated it better than I can.

But as for staying conscious for 90min, or more? Easy: lucidity in both realms of thought promotes both active and passive thoughts. 90min. can become one moment if your lucidity allows it to be.

If I may ask so, does your conscious mind play a major role, or is it a mixture of conscious and unconcious?

Keep us posted with your observations. I'm very interested!




:dreaming:

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Originally Posted by TheMoon

Dizko!

Crap i've been trying to do what you are trying to do now also ever since i read jeff's tutorial on how to trick your body to fall asleep...

I can fully manage to lay there and stay aware and let my body fall asleep.

But i think my problem is i'm not able to just yet let my mind rest fully and completely so it can start sleeping.

But wow, this is so completely possible, and i will follow your thread and post any experiences i may have also.



Hearing this is going to help me out so much :D

Im keeping my self awake and aware but its alot harder to clear your mind and not focus on thoughts.... Well i guess the thing is, not to be awake, but still aware hehe...

Im a bit tired right now, im going to head back to bed, Good luck Dizko :)

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Thanks ;D Id love to hear about your experiences and findings.

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Originally Posted by iank

It would be a pretty cool thing. I'd like to get there eventually too. Mind, I'm still waiting for my first LD!

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Well practicing being aware is sure to lead to a lucid dream :)

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Originally Posted by roland3tr

Me too :D

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;)

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Originally Posted by acatalephobic

If I may ask so, does your conscious mind play a major role, or is it a mixture of conscious and unconcious?

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Well so far, ive discovered it is a mix. When you are falling asleep, your 'train of thought' sort of, drives itself.

I think the key is to allow as much of your unconcious mind to take over as possible, while still retaining a small fraction of conciousness/awareness.

I think im slowly making progress. Im getting good at allowing myself to get lost in thought, but at the same time, and in some form, still be aware.
It used to be that if i had a weird thought come into my mind , i would; stop, 'look' at the thought, question the thought, react to the thought, and then i would have to wait again until my unconscious mind started to get my random thoughts going again. This meant that i was lying awake for hours.
Now however, i think im starting to be able to observe,question and react/not react to the thoughts, without them stopping.

Doing this has lead to me having a number of hypnic jerks, which is a sign that im falling asleep, but they were not like normal hypnic jerks. I could see them coming, a good half a second before they happen. This way they dont startle me and i can continue to fall asleep.

I think im slowly learning the difference between awareness and focus. Of course, by definition, i know the difference - but in practice, i think it is something i still have to learn. Focus stops us falling asleep, so i need to be aware, without focus.

Im going to stop now before i give myself, or someone else, a headache.

Seems like you are really making progress. I hope you'll make more. Because then we can learn not only more about lucidity but also maybe some unknown things about consciousness-unconsciousness-sleep.

"but they were not like normal hypnic jerks. I could see them coming, a good half a second before they happen. " That is really weird. I mean what does it feel like and how did you manage to feel that ?

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Originally Posted by roland3tr

Seems like you are really making progress. I hope you'll make more. Because then we can learn not only more about lucidity but also maybe some unknown things about consciousness-unconsciousness-sleep.

"but they were not like normal hypnic jerks. I could see them coming, a good half a second before they happen. " That is really weird. I mean what does it feel like and how did you manage to feel that ?

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A lot of hypnic jerks (i find) come from something surprising happening in your thought process as you fall asleep. For exmaple, you're running and your foot goes down a hole, or you fall off something.
I would just be watching my thoughts, and they would start to seem a little more real. I'd then notice, 'So im thinking about walking along a cliff. Oh dear, im about to fall, i wonder will i have a hypn..' *shake*

I dont 'think' these words to myself. Just trying to explain things =P

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Originally Posted by Dizko

A lot of hypnic jerks (i find) come from something surprising happening in your thought process as you fall asleep. For exmaple, you're running and your foot goes down a hole, or you fall off something.
I would just be watching my thoughts, and they would start to seem a little more real. I'd then notice, 'So im thinking about walking along a cliff. Oh dear, im about to fall, i wonder will i have a hypn..' *shake*

I dont 'think' these words to myself. Just trying to explain things =P

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OMG thats exactly how my hypnic jerks happen. But the image (HI) and jerks happen almost simultaneously. Not a half second but I might say one mili second. Those HIs are like fall off, foot goes down just like you said or a ball hitting to my face...

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Originally Posted by roland3tr

OMG thats exactly how my hypnic jerks happen. But the image (HI) and jerks happen almost simultaneously. Not a half second but I might say one mili second. Those HIs are like fall off, foot goes down just like you said or a ball hitting to my face...

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Yea lol! Ive had the ball hitting my face too...xD

:lol:

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Originally Posted by acatalephobic

But as for staying conscious for 90min, or more? Easy: lucidity in both realms of thought promotes both active and passive thoughts. 90min. can become one moment if your lucidity allows it to be.

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I dont really understand :(

Can you dumb it down for me a little? :lol:

Please clear it up for me too!

I'm confused, aca, so 90 minutes can pass in an instant?, please explain

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Originally Posted by A dreamer168

Please clear it up for me too!

I'm confused, aca, so 90 minutes can pass in an instant?, please explain

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Hrm well, when i laid down in my bed last night and stayed aware. I completely lost track of any time once my body started going to sleep.

By the time i had to pee real bad and got up about 90 minutes went by in fact.

So to me, it did seem like that time went by in a instant.

Also as long you keep your mind clear of any thoughts that you create, you really don't get bored. You mainly just lay there in a relaxed state. It doesn't seem boring.

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Originally Posted by TheMoon

Hrm well, when i laid down in my bed last night and stayed aware. I completely lost track of any time once my body started going to sleep.

By the time i had to pee real bad and got up about 90 minutes went by in fact.

So to me, it did seem like that time went by in a instant.

Also as long you keep your mind clear of any thoughts that you create, you really don't get bored. You mainly just lay there in a relaxed state. It doesn't seem boring.

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You lost track of time because you fell a sleep and lose consciousness. You might say "no I was aware" but this kind of time dilation happens time to time. I think it is very amazing. One minute you were thinking other minute you wake up 90 min passed.

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Originally Posted by Dizko

I dont really understand :(

Can you dumb it down for me a little? :lol:

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From the sounds of your posts, you don't need any concept to be dumbed down. :goodjob2:

But I sometimes speak too abstractly...I guess what I meant is that lucidity is something I strive for in both states. When you begin to notice tiny details in your waking life, it helps promote conscious and unconscious thoughts (like how you said, your technique involves a mixture of both).

I've had whole days that feel like one moment, because both active and passive thoughts string together almost seamlessly.

Maybe I'm just a boring person, but 90min. seems like nothing when compared to the greater scheme of time. If you consider the broader spectrum of time that came before you, 90min. (or even a lifetime) in comparison can seem like the blink of an eye. We are simply conditioned by our routines/schedules to believe that an hour is lengthy. Lucidity is the key to unlocking the continuity of our own minds. (Which is the key concept I took from your post).

I'm sorry, I don't want to hijack this thread by making it about something else....your post just got me to thinking.


I hope I didn't give you a headache....




:undecided:

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Originally Posted by roland3tr

You lost track of time because you fell a sleep and lose consciousness. You might say "no I was aware" but this kind of time dilation happens time to time. I think it is very amazing. One minute you were thinking other minute you wake up 90 min passed.

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I never went to sleep, i was awake the whole time aware of my body as it slowly feel asleep :)

I was there for the whole hour and half, but when i got up it did not seem like that long had passed.

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Originally Posted by TheMoon

I never went to sleep, i was awake the whole time aware of my body as it slowly feel asleep :)

I was there for the whole hour and half, but when i got up it did not seem like that long had passed.

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"but when i got up it did not seem like that long had passed"

and

"So to me, it did seem like that time went by in a instant."

The two things you said about the same thing is very different. If you say the first one I would totally agree because I've felt like that before. But if you say the second one, again I think it is not possible unless you fall a sleep. I mean the whole time you were aware of your body but it felt like an insant, thats what I don't think it could happen that way.

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Originally Posted by acatalephobic

From the sounds of your posts, you don't need any concept to be dumbed down. :goodjob2:

But I sometimes speak too abstractly...I guess what I meant is that lucidity is something I strive for in both states. When you begin to notice tiny details in your waking life, it helps promote conscious and unconscious thoughts (like how you said, your technique involves a mixture of both).

I've had whole days that feel like one moment, because both active and passive thoughts string together almost seamlessly.

Maybe I'm just a boring person, but 90min. seems like nothing when compared to the greater scheme of time. If you consider the broader spectrum of time that came before you, 90min. (or even a lifetime) in comparison can seem like the blink of an eye. We are simply conditioned by our routines/schedules to believe that an hour is lengthy. Lucidity is the key to unlocking the continuity of our own minds. (Which is the key concept I took from your post).

I'm sorry, I don't want to hijack this thread by making it about something else....your post just got me to thinking.


I hope I didn't give you a headache....




:undecided:

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So you are basically arguing about the concept of "time".

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Originally Posted by acatalephobic

But I sometimes speak too abstractly...I guess what I meant is that lucidity is something I strive for in both states. When you begin to notice tiny details in your waking life, it helps promote conscious and unconscious thoughts (like how you said, your technique involves a mixture of both).

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Ah yes. I definatly agree.

Bah! Stupid cold/cough.

Very difficult to remain aware while loosing myself in my thoughts - but on top of that, i now have to deal with a tickley throat and the need to cough every minute. ._.
Its keeping me very focused on my physical self...

Stupid sicknesszzz!

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Originally Posted by Dizko

Bah! Stupid cold/cough.

Very difficult to remain aware while loosing myself in my thoughts - but on top of that, i now have to deal with a tickley throat and the need to cough every minute. ._.
Its keeping me very focused on my physical self...

Stupid sicknesszzz!

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Ricola? :)

Or honey + tea, or just eat straight honey.

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Originally Posted by Dizko

Bah! Stupid cold/cough.

Very difficult to remain aware while loosing myself in my thoughts - but on top of that, i now have to deal with a tickley throat and the need to cough every minute. ._.
Its keeping me very focused on my physical self...

Stupid sicknesszzz!

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Hope you could get well soon :goodjob2:

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Originally Posted by roland3tr

Hope you could get well soon :goodjob2:

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Thanks ^^ Getting there. =p

hey diz, i tried staying conscious going to sleep, but friggin weird things happened, like no SP or HI ive ever experienced before.... really freaky.

ill explain 2moro in skool if ur in that is lol.

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Originally Posted by Niddiboy

hey diz, i tried staying conscious going to sleep, but friggin weird things happened, like no SP or HI ive ever experienced before.... really freaky.

ill explain 2moro in skool if ur in that is lol.

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Awesome :D

I can almost do something like this. Sometimes during the day I'll go lay down on my bed. For about an hour I'd just lay there. When I get up it feels like I've had an hour's rest, but I was aware for that whole hour. I might give this a try.

Wahay! Four WILDs in a row last night...

This awareness training is finally coming in handy ^^

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Originally Posted by Dizko

I know im entering a deeper form of sleep because although i maintain awareness of myself, i loose awareness of external things, and of my body. My mind also 'feels' different. Its hard to explain but you know when you wake up in the morning (and if you were just in slow wave sleep) and your head feels all groggy? Almost like its buzzing, it thinks things all on its own. Its like that, and it feels nice. It feels natural and it really feels like im resting.

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Im getting to this stage comfortably every night now. Problem is, when i do - if someone else in the house makes noise or something bothers me, i find myself getting very angry.
Im not an angry person, im guessing its just my body desperately wanting to fall alseep.

I really should be going to bed earlier, because it is much easier.

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Originally Posted by Dizko

Ah i see. What about your body? Did you think about it/not think about it/not care?

I think ive done this as a child once.

Lol this sucks. I did everything as a child. Got stuck in SP, had accidental WILD's, which ofcourse all lead to nightmares.
Now i have to TRY to get these things -_-



Thankyou! :D

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Sorry it took me so long to reply, as I thought I had already. I don't really think I payed too much attention to my body. I was able to do it to such an extent that if I had an itch, i could wake myself up, scratch it, and be back asleep within a couple of seconds. Maybe, just for experimentation purposes, you should find a city bus in a good neighborhood and fall asleep to see if you can do it. I will warn you though that it is EXTREMELY physically straining. You will wake up feeling as if you hadn't slept in two days, and you will feel cold. The best way to describe it is to imagine you have the chills from a fever. No matter how much you cover up, you will feel cold on the inside of your body. it is very good for meditation purposes.

I wonder what happens if one dream ends. Do you slowly fade in and out waking state? Anyway I think that this is a great goal. If you've done this you can truly call yourself aware. I think that an experience like that can change your life. For the boredom, learn to enjoy it yes. It wil test your power of will and strenght of the mind. I think that you should master lucid dreaming first. All techniques are useful in their own way, you could apply the knowledge of all techniques to your progress. MILD improves the power of will and mind ; WILD improves the feeling of being aware/awake ; DILD improves the flexibility of you mind.

When you wake up in the morning after you do this, do you feel as rested as you normally would? Not immediately after you awaken, but in your overall day?

Also, exactly how do you do this? Do you just lie down as if you were sleeping, and keep your mind aware?

EDIT: One last thing, what were your first results when trying this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pojmaster17q

When you wake up in the morning after you do this, do you feel as rested as you normally would? Not immediately after you awaken, but in your overall day?

Also, exactly how do you do this? Do you just lie down as if you were sleeping, and keep your mind aware?

EDIT: One last thing, what were your first results when trying this?

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Thanks for the post, pojmaster.

Well, i have not yet managed to remain aware throughout the whole night of sleep. The longest time i have managed is about an hour and a half. This thread is just where i will record any events or discoveries that i make while attempting this each night.

Another time i was aware for about 1 hour then i lost awareness temporarily but became aware again as the first REM stage occurred, and so i went into the dream, aware.

I then woke up after the dream ended, and confirmed (by checking the time) that i had almost remained fully aware through a whole sleep cycle (which lasts a little over 100minutes.). And yes, i did feel like i had been sleeping and gained energy. I don't feel that a person must become unconscious to gain energy. I do believe however, that we must lose all sense of focus - but still remain 'aware', in order for our brains and bodies to fall asleep and gain energy, while the person remains aware, or 'lucid'.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pojmaster17q

Also, exactly how do you do this? Do you just lie down as if you were sleeping, and keep your mind aware?

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Yep, thats it. The key is (as far as i know) to learn the difference between awareness, and focus.
Focus will keep you 'awake'. Focus will stop your body from going into sleep, and it will also keep your brain too active to feel ready to sleep.
Awareness is different. Awareness is you. If you take away your body, your emotions, your feelings, your knowledge, your everything - you will be left with the very core thing that is you, your awareness.

Sorry if i sound patronizing, or as if im trying to be a 'teacher' - i like to explain things every now and again, if not for anyone else but for myself.

Anyway if you want to further learn what it means to just 'be', or 'be aware' then try this video - part 1, part 2.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pojmaster17q

EDIT: One last thing, what were your first results when trying this?

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I got frustrated at first. I kept thinking, "This is crazy, i've been lying awake for ages...."
Then i realised that, that was the whole point :p

After that, i'm learning to enjoy drifting into sleep. The weird feelings, and strange thoughts that occur as your conscious self calms down, and your subconscious starts to become more active, is very interesting.

The hard part seems to be letting go of your physical self, while remaining aware. Noises from other people or from dogs outside etc, become a lot more distracting when you are lying there fully conscious trying to fall asleep ;p

Anyway - Its good fun. I learn something every night and I am enjoying the experiences.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dizko

Sorry if i sound patronizing, or as if im trying to be a 'teacher' - i like to explain things every now and again, if not for anyone else but for myself.

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No, actually, your post answered everything I was wondering, thanks for the help! I'm gonna try doing this, and report back if anything major happens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pojmaster17q

No, actually, your post answered everything I was wondering, thanks for the help! I'm gonna try doing this, and report back if anything major happens.

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;D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by A dreamer168

Granted

But how do you stay awake?

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i just had pretty much coffee that might help me to stay awake, hopefully i'll remeber to post the results :)

speaking of beeing awake, i've been awake for about 120 hours in a row without illusion (i think XD).
beeing awake for too long leaves the brain damaged, just so you guys know. ^^

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oros

i just had pretty much coffee that might help me to stay awake, hopefully i'll remeber to post the results :)

speaking of beeing awake, i've been awake for about 120 hours in a row without illusion (i think XD).
beeing awake for too long leaves the brain damaged, just so you guys know. ^^

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I went to bed and laid there in a half sitting position for about 40 minutes until i fall asleep XD
I got into SP quite fast thou.

The aim is not to stay awake. The aim is to fall asleep.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dizko

The aim is not to stay awake. The aim is to fall asleep.

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Whilst being conscious. I think I'll be trying this when I get WILD down. Still got a long road to go.

It would be awesome, though, to be aware of your sleep once in a while. Imagine 5 Lucids a night, plus you get a look at what your body does in sleep.

I've been trying this for about a week and a half now. I can say I'm getting alot further. Two nights ago I started to feel the onset of SP, but since I am not used to WILDing I ended up waking up...

I can stay aware for about an hour before I give up and roll over, but I am making progress.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mdf92

I've been trying this for about a week and a half now. I can say I'm getting alot further. Two nights ago I started to feel the onset of SP, but since I am not used to WILDing I ended up waking up...

I can stay aware for about an hour before I give up and roll over, but I am making progress.

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Awesome. Thanks for the input. I really appreciate hearing others experiences when trying this.

Had an interesting episode this morning.

I became aware. I don't know when, and i don't know for how long.
I was in nothingness. Not even darkness. I wasn't thinking of anything, i wasn't thinking of nothing. It was strange, i was aware only of me.

I'm guessing i was aware during a stage of sleep outside of REM. If so, i'm happy.

Anyway, later on in the morning, i had a few WILD's. Pretty unstable dreams because it was so late in the morning, approaching lunchtime - so i was quite full of energy. I had to touch things a lot in the dream to keep it from fading.

Anyway, I think i may have created what I've always wanted in my lucid dreams; A worthy adversary.

Morpheus is my self-chosen dream guide. In fact he has made me lucid, and helped me in non lucid dreams as well. But what happened in this dream was that when i called him, a black man, who looked very like him, came over to me.
He was friendly, but didn't look like Morpheus exactly, and he was wearing a japanese headband for some reason. I didn't mind at the time, and i said "You now have the power of my subconscious(whatever that means), i want you to not let me hit you".
This was to test my dream control. So we started sparring - he sucked, i hit him in the face after about 10 seconds. Thats when it really hit me that this wasn't the same dream character as the first 'Morpheus' i had met.

In reality, it doesnt matter, because dream characters arent real. But im going to go along with it.

It seems that i have given some measure of my subconscious power to this fake Morpheus. Who knows what nightmares he might try to start within me?
Its up to me and the True Morpheus to cleanse my own personal matrix.

DUN DUN DUN :o



I'm such a child. ^^

This is interresting. I never really had a lucid dream yet. I'm proggressing though. I think I could maybe try to do what your doing for it takes me 1h and 30 min to fall asleep/be unconscious. Maybe if I tried to stay conscious it would work. Anyways, I don't think I have your ability but I am forced to stay conscious for so long so why the hell not try it at the same time. It could maybe help me with my Lding at the same time... :roll:

Good luck! ( I'll need it more than you but still, keep it :P )

From Chat:

Quote:

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[Dizko] 4:49 pm: So staying concious through all stages of sleep is easy?
[ClouD] 4:50 pm: sleeping sleeping
[] 4:50 pm: i don't know about stages
[] 4:50 pm: i just know about aware
[] 4:50 pm: induction relies on awareness
[] 4:51 pm: well IS awareness
[] 4:51 pm: forget all steps and whatnot
[] 4:51 pm: you have to be lucid NOW
[] 4:51 pm: to be lucid later.
[] 4:52 pm: awareness is only right now
[] 4:52 pm: so
[] 4:52 pm: be without interpretation
[] 4:52 pm: don't divide or infer
[] 4:52 pm: at all
[] 4:53 pm: and just go on further into innocence in that you have no idea
[] 4:53 pm: of anything
[] 4:53 pm: without past ideas
[] 4:53 pm: or future ambitions

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Thanks ClouD

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Originally Posted by oniman7

I used to do this almost every day for almost an hour. I used to have a bus that took me to school, and I would sleep on the bus. ( it was, indeed, almost an hour and a half getting to school ). I would go to sleep and be perfectly aware of myself and everything around me. I could hear and think, but I was asleep ( or maybe I achieved a high form of meditation on accident ). Either way, it was very cool and I could wake myself out of it in less than a second. The only thing was, I always woke up very tired and cold ( yes cold, felt like somebody put ice in my veins ).

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I do that now. lol

Good luck in your quest, Dizko. :]

How do you do it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oniman7

How do you do it?

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I asked a very similar question before. Read the thread.

I was talking to the dreaming wolfess, as I was interested in the conversation we had ( more, the paragraph he/she quoted ).

I had a LD an hour after falling asleep. I went to DEILD but could not.

yo Dizko, i read this whole thread so far and just wanted to say that your perception on the difference of focus and awareness is a good one and will help me.


thank you

Okay, sorry I didn't reply sooner, Oniman. I was going to about 5 hours ago but got interrupted. x__x XD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oniman7

How do you do it?

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It's really something I've been able to do for a long time (since last year) because I'm the first stop in the morning. So, what I do, is I get on the bus, and, pretty simply, prop up my bookbag/backpack in front of me, and pretty much lean on it... like it's a pillow. :] Then I close my eyes and lay still. Soon enough, I'm in this weird state. It's sort of like sleep, but I don't see or hear anything. However, I can snap out of it within a second. Usually, I "wake up" (really, like you said, higher meditation) and it's always right before I get to school. It's really odd. Only once (and I do this the entire year) have I not woken up when we pulled into the intersection before school. Even then, I can slip back into it with ease, knowing that I'll reawaken when we get to the school.

As you mentioned, I wake up cold, and sometimes sore.

This sounds exactly like what I would do, down to waking up outside my school. The only difference is that I would be able to hear what was going on around me, and understand it. If somebody were to ask me a complex question, I could think about it, wake up and answer them. Sometimes have a conversation, sometimes just answer them. As long as I didn't really move, I could go right back into the same state. Somebody should look into this. One of the reasons I miss having a bus.... Why they gotta take buses from gifted kids? ( Gifted as in above 130 IQ, not special needs. )

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oniman7

This sounds exactly like what I would do, down to waking up outside my school. The only difference is that I would be able to hear what was going on around me, and understand it. If somebody were to ask me a complex question, I could think about it, wake up and answer them. Sometimes have a conversation, sometimes just answer them. As long as I didn't really move, I could go right back into the same state. Somebody should look into this. One of the reasons I miss having a bus.... Why they gotta take buses from gifted kids? ( Gifted as in above 130 IQ, not special needs. )

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I don't know if I could hear people, but I know that I sort of slip away for awhile. Nobody talks to me on the bus (all of the seats are like, one person each). So, yeah. :] I'd like to see if I could one time.

Why would you have to have a bus to conduct this state? Try it sitting at the table or something :P

Well, you could do it anywhere theoretically. I just think that the noisy environment of the bus helps. Not to mention, your nrain becomes more aware in places you aren't familiar with.

Qwik Update;
Finding myself aware in sleep paralysis very often now. Ive gotten good at making dreams form from this state.

Well, I have some interesting news. I have been aware several times during my sleep, but I have very vague recall of them. For instance, the other night, I had a dream where people kept walking by me. I would move my leg whenever somebody bumped into me. I realized " Hey! my leg moves when somebody walked past me. I probably don't want to walk into them ". I was really groggy though. It was like an anesthetic induced sleep almost.

Since school started again I haven't had much time to try this. However, the increased awareness is helping. I had my first LD since before I started school again. Also a couple nights ago when I was trying this I got to the onset of SP again.

Well, I recently have been riding a bus home after school every other Tuesday, because I stay for after school activities. It just occurred to me the other day ( after doing it ) that I should try this again. I succeeded once again. I fell asleep, and woke up right outside my neighborhood. I went to sleep again, and could hear people talking around me.

Oddly enough, I've found that if I don't sleep on the bus in the morning, I usually end up exhausted and sleeping on the way back home...! It's kind of weird. But I do still wake up. XD

yeah, I think it's too possible, I Wilded/Dilded at 10:45 and at 3.45....
so, it's like you can wild whenever you like

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Originally Posted by Mariano

yeah, I think it's too possible, I Wilded/Dilded at 10:45 and at 3.45....
so, it's like you can wild whenever you like

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PM? AM? when do you go to sleep?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pojmaster17q

PM? AM? when do you go to sleep?

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10.45 am and 3.20 pm

This seems like it would work, but... everybody's somewhat lost interest in it. Anybody made new progress? I have something interesting to report, but it's not quite along this... theme. It does, however, have a little bit to do with awareness. I was taking the equivalent of the SAT, and I finished 30 minutes early. I started to drift off to sleep. I knew this was a dream, but I wasn't asleep enough to control it. I had a very vague dream in which there were three girls around me. We were in a warehouse, planning some kind of robbery. Two of them started to fight. I reached out and grabbed one of their fists. I wasn't fully asleep, so I did the action in real life and almost fell out of my seat. I can only imagine what it must have looked like.

Keep us updated! I'm very eager to see if you are able to do it.

Something just occurred to me that could be a possible problem. The human brain has these sleep cycles for a reason. And a by-product of these sleep cycles is the loss of consciousness. I have to wonder if this would make it impossible to be lucid through these 8 hours, or if there would be any bad side effects from achieving it. The only research I'm really able to do are small scale tests; achieving lucidity the second I fall asleep. We need another volunteer if we want to test this out.

I just had a thought. Why do this, when only so much of the night is spent in REM? I'm fairly sure this would be possible from a WILD point of view (ie: staying aware the whole time). I mean, you're body is asleep, and your mind awake - and you only slip into a dream in REM.

What I'm saying is, what can you actually do (other than think) for the better part of 5 hours (rough guess) you will be concious staring at the back of your eyelids?

EDIT: Haha, seems I just answered that question myself. Chain WILDs!
EDIT EDIT: I think I'll (attempt) to test this method over the next week or so. Maybe some music all night will keep my mind company...

Last night I layed completely still for almost 2 hours without SP, then I gave up.

Do I just need more practise for it to work? 2 hours is quite a pain in the ass.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AngelZlayer

Last night I layed completely still for almost 2 hours without SP, then I gave up.

Do I just need more practise for it to work? 2 hours is quite a pain in the ass.

---

You only get SP during a REM period, so in the meantime you will notice your body has fallen asleep (in other words, SP isn't an indicator that your body is asleep, rather it is an indicator your body is asleep and in REM).

I personally wouldn't seriously look at this. I have attempted it three times, each time I managed to keep my mind awake for around two hours after my body had fallen asleep, and each time, I ended up falling into sleep - it seems your mind and body put up quite a fight when this happens, and it takes extreme willpower to keep your mind awake for so long.

I also noticed mental fatigue each day after attempting this. I honestly don't think this is worth it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AngelZlayer

Last night I layed completely still for almost 2 hours without SP, then I gave up.

Do I just need more practise for it to work? 2 hours is quite a pain in the ass.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by detroitLions1970

You only get SP during a REM period, so in the meantime you will notice your body has fallen asleep (in other words, SP isn't an indicator that your body is asleep, rather it is an indicator your body is asleep and in REM).

I personally wouldn't seriously look at this. I have attempted it three times, each time I managed to keep my mind awake for around two hours after my body had fallen asleep, and each time, I ended up falling into sleep - it seems your mind and body put up quite a fight when this happens, and it takes extreme willpower to keep your mind awake for so long.

I also noticed mental fatigue each day after attempting this. I honestly don't think this is worth it.

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Ugh, Ur doin it RONG!!!1

If you go through 2 hours of sleep without REM, it means that you WILDed in the very beginning of the night, before you had actually slept at all. WILD is intended to be perfomed when you wake up in the middle of the night. Even though you woke up, your body is ready to recontinue it's sleep cycle uninterupted. So if you've already had 8 hours of sleep, the longest this could possibly happen is around 15-20 minutes.
But wait, there's more! The micro awakenings that happen in the middle of the night happen right before you transition into your next REM phase, so as long as you wake up naturally (Not from an alarm), you won't have to wait at all before you go into REM (Once you're asleep). So, if you WILDed correctly, you were NOT asleep for two hours without REM. Maybe it was your imagination. That's the power of autosuggestion for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mini Man56

Ugh, Ur doin it RONG!!!1

If you go through 2 hours of sleep without REM, it means that you WILDed in the very beginning of the night, before you had actually slept at all. WILD is intended to be perfomed when you wake up in the middle of the night. Even though you woke up, your body is ready to recontinue it's sleep cycle uninterupted. So if you've already had 8 hours of sleep, the longest this could possibly happen is around 15-20 minutes.
But wait, there's more! The micro awakenings that happen in the middle of the night happen right before you transition into your next REM phase, so as long as you wake up naturally (Not from an alarm), you won't have to wait at all before you go into REM (Once you're asleep). So, if you WILDed correctly, you were NOT asleep for two hours without REM. Maybe it was your imagination. That's the power of autosuggestion for you.

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No, no. The night my body was asleep for two hours, I did hit REM (I'd say about 1 and a half hours in?). However, I got too excited and got an adrenaline hit, so the dream faded as it was being formed... My body woke up, and I had to start again. About half an hour after my body went to sleep for the second time, my mind fell asleep because I lost focus for a couple of minutes.

I'm telling you, my body was definatly fell asleep, I felt everything accompanied with a successful WILD - and as I said, almost entered a dream.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by detroitLions1970

No, no. The night my body was asleep for two hours, I did hit REM (I'd say about 1 and a half hours in?). However, I got too excited and got an adrenaline hit, so the dream faded as it was being formed... My body woke up, and I had to start again. About half an hour after my body went to sleep for the second time, my mind fell asleep because I lost focus for a couple of minutes.

I'm telling you, my body was definatly fell asleep, I felt everything accompanied with a successful WILD - and as I said, almost entered a dream.

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It still sounds like you were doing this before you went to sleep for the first time that night. And if you lost your dream as it was just starting to form, it wouldn't stop the entire freaking REM cycle. Unless of course, you did WILD right when you went to bed, considering the first REM cycle is only 5 to 10 minutes long.

In any case, you're either BSing me... >_> ....or you simply did something wrong. There's nothing wrong with that, because now you know. :)

I keep trying , not sure if you look at this though. I am kind of close, I get some intense HI which I need to learn not to freak me out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mini Man56

If you go through 2 hours of sleep without REM, it means that you WILDed in the very beginning of the night, before you had actually slept at all.

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Isn't the whole point of this experiment to keep your mind awake through the whole sleep process?

When doing a WBTB, I layed there for 40 minutes before giving up. If I do a WBTB again, should 2 hours give results this time?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mini Man56

It still sounds like you were doing this before you went to sleep for the first time that night. And if you lost your dream as it was just starting to form, it wouldn't stop the entire freaking REM cycle. Unless of course, you did WILD right when you went to bed, considering the first REM cycle is only 5 to 10 minutes long.

In any case, you're either BSing me... >_> ....or you simply did something wrong. There's nothing wrong with that, because now you know. :)

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Than I must have done something wrong when I went back to bed - Why didn't I remember that about REM cycles? Could have saved me typing my last post :D. I'll try again tonight, maybe I'll be able to get it right if I keep a calm, headstrong mindset.

I'll keep you updated.

Hey Guys.

Good to see this thread is still active, no thanks to me.

I'm gonna start posting again. Ive started to have random WILDs again, and I want to start this again. I find that when i try this, even if i fail, I end up having a lucid later on in the night.

Well, I found out something interesting. Riding home from school today, I kept falling asleep. I was aware I was asleep, but every time there was some kind of image. It wasn't quite hypnagogic, and there was no sleep paralysis. However, during one of the times, there was some puzzle or some insane question I was trying to figure out. I think it had something to do with some kind of brown puzzle board. It had leather and wood. There were wooden cubes on it, and I had to turn them all just right.


What do you think?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oniman7

Well, I found out something interesting. Riding home from school today, I kept falling asleep. I was aware I was asleep, but every time there was some kind of image. It wasn't quite hypnagogic, and there was no sleep paralysis. However, during one of the times, there was some puzzle or some insane question I was trying to figure out. I think it had something to do with some kind of brown puzzle board. It had leather and wood. There were wooden cubes on it, and I had to turn them all just right.


What do you think?

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Sounds like some kind of trance. Probably started from hard focus, which is how we loose consciousness every night (or so i believe)
Focus makes you loose consciousness, awareness lets you keep it. Hmm.

Tell me more about trances, if you will.

Trance denotes a variety of processes, techniques, modalities and states of mind, awareness and consciousness. Trance states may occur involuntarily and unbidden.

In my experience, a trance is when you become so focused on one thing, for example, listening to music/watching TV, that you aren't aware of other things - such as surroundings.
Another trance might be what gamers call being "In the zone" - where they are so focused on an objective within a game, that their game play skill becomes much greater. Who knows?

I would call any focus in an activity, where certain awareness is lost - a trance. So, focusing on your thoughts as you fall asleep would make you forget about everything else and enter a 'trance' and so, lose consciousness.

I would say awareness is something else completely, it isn't about focusing or not focusing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dizko

Trance denotes a variety of processes, techniques, modalities and states of mind, awareness and consciousness. Trance states may occur involuntarily and unbidden.

In my experience, a trance is when you become so focused on one thing, for example, listening to music/watching TV, that you aren't aware of other things - such as surroundings.
Another trance might be what gamers call being "In the zone" - where they are so focused on an objective within a game, that their game play skill becomes much greater. Who knows?

I would call any focus in an activity, where certain awareness is lost - a trance. So, focusing on your thoughts as you fall asleep would make you forget about everything else and enter a 'trance' and so, lose consciousness.

I would say awareness is something else completely, it isn't about focusing or not focusing.

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Ooh, I know what you're talking about with the whole gaming thing. I remember my first time through Metroid Prime, maybe five years ago, how I would become so absorbed that everything outside the screen was, like, gone. Like I was the main character, seeing trough their eyes. :P I would forget everything that wasn't metroid untill someone talked to me. :roll:

So I guess that technically falls under your definition of a trance, but I dunno if that's how I would describe it. :?