WARNING: This experiment may cause temporary madness.

**loose id** · 11-07-2004 08:57 PM

If I am an even remotely recognizable character on this message board, then I am probably most notorious for being a touch off the wall. Believe it or not... I don't care which you do... There is usually some sort of method behind my madness, and now I'd like to pass a little of the madness to all of you.

When I was in my teen years I had a dream where I met a bespectacled rabbit who approached me in a wooded winter scene (although the temperature can be described as very comfortable). The rabbit spoke to me with an eloquence most humans envy and few possess. I asked him how he became so intelligent, despite the fact he was born a rabbit. He said that he had learned to avoid even the simplest states of altered consciousness, including sleep, and to induce them on his own. I was impressed with this until he started humping my leg. This is where I will end the narrative.

For years I have ignored this rabbit and engaged in various states of altered consciousness: drugs, alcohol, nicotine, Simpsons, orgasm, holding my breath till I pass out... etc.

The following experiment is a three part, three level, three month process (I've always liked things in threes). It will begin on January 1st, 2005, and I'm hoping we can set up a blog/thread/forum or some sort of support center for this. This will be very trying, yet I hypothesize it will be very beneficial.

Before I explain the three steps, I will explain the theory behind it:

One of the things we stress over and over again in the pursuit of lucidity is the individual's sense of self control IRL and how it may carry over to their dream life. With intent and high levels of self actualization, it is incredible what the human brain can create and visualize. So my theory is, what if we learned to take the wheel, and to control as many aspects of our daily life as we can? It is true that we can't control everything, but it is often surprising how much we can control... but alas, we don't.

Although there doesn't appear to be a strong segue into the following topic, if you have been following closely, you will understand where I'm going with this. Nietzsche's concept of sublimation is the theory that when certain energies aren't released in their usual fashion, they are channeled elsewhere. His theory circled around sex and if one were to deter their sexual energies somewhere else... say, writing literature, they would find an extra "oomph" in their writing. Sort of the ideas surrounding gnosticism, but that's a whole different ball of wax.

My theory is thus... our everyday lives (mine included, so don't feel I'm judging or pointing the finger) is surrounded by a series of weak release valves and hinderences to our energies. Our physical energy dwindles with every inactive day and every sugar snack. Our sexual energy is carelessly expended with partners who make love mechanically, or during impromptu masturbation sessions in the shower/at the computer/in front of the television. Our goal oriented energies are qualmed by a fast food meal, a blunt, or several servings of alcohol. Our energies for individual self-actualization are hampered by the desire to just kick back with a few "pals" and let them entertain us and direct our thoughts/opinions.

Granted there are hundreds of different "energies", this is just a term I use to describe a fire, or a drive, that all of us have... but sadly, some of us are kicking its coals, looking for some sort of warmth.

On January 5th, 2005 I will begin the following process, and if anyone wants to join, they are more than welcome.

PHASE I (1/1/05 - 1/31/05)

DIET MODIFICATION

Everyone's bodies are different, and there are too many factors involved to have a general and specific diet for everyone to follow. Suggestions and articles surrounding diet and how certain foods effect the brain would be greatly appreciated.

Thus far, I have made the following plans, and I am currently in the process of eliminating (or drastically reducing) the following from my diet:

1) Refined Sugars (Fructose, Sucrose, and maybe Sacchrine)
2) Dairy Products
3) Alcohol
4) Caffeine
5) Preservatives (hoping to start an organic food diet)
6) Sodium
7) Salts
8) Saturated Fats (Polyunsaturated and monounsaturated are somewhat good for you I understand)

I intend to increase the intake of the following:

1) Fish and shellfish
2) Chammomile Tea
3) Water
4) Blueberries, grapes, and other foods rich in antioxidants (suggestions welcome)
5) Rice
6) Water

Drug and nicotine use has been eliminated as well.

PHASE II (2/1/05 - 2/28/05)

BODY AND MIND EXERCISE

Once again, I have already begun work in this area, but by February I hope to be consistant in my practices.

Physical -
I have concluded that exercise is an important element because physical energy is a peculiar instance in which be expending it one not only observes increases in mental accuity, but also experiences an influx in energy. I have noticed that when I am on a regular exercise program, I actually have more energy than when I am spending my days in front of a computer/television. I also think of a proverb that "All great ideas come from walking." Physical exercise is integral also because it is one of the hardest things to motivate oneself to do. Why would I want to run or lift heavy shit if I don't have to? By choosing to exercise it is the mind asserting its control over the body. My goal is to do aerobic exercise everyday, and to do applied exercise (weightlifting, martial arts, sports, yoga...etc.) at least four times a week.
The next part in this phase is what will make or break most people. No orgasm. That means no sex and no masturbation. This is perhaps the hardest, but I have found to be the most beneficial. I have on several occasions tried to see how long I could go without an orgasm. My longest thus far is twenty-eight days. However, after day fourteen I noticed a remarkable increase in my physical energy, dream recall, creative abilities, and emotional stability. Granted, for the first week I was a wreck, I noticed a fluidity in my mind and body I have never had before after that. For those of you with significant others I don't really know what to say. Its a personal sacrifice for your individual growth, and I hope that you and your partner both see it that way. Maybe it would be a test of what type of relationship you really have. For others, this won't be nearly as hard as I make it out to be.

Mental -
Turn off the damn tv. Try to use the computer only for reasons you feel as cognitively beneficial.
I am going to try to learn another language (most likely French, and I'm going to try to learn how to read Latin) because I have learned that language comprehension is directly related to the growth of gray matter in the brain. Expanding your language is vital, but not just in the spoken sense. This can be done by learning another computer language, learning new maths, studying and understanding physics, designing your own language, writing literature, reading hard books...
Whatever will maintain your attention, but at the same time, challenge your brain to comprehend its surroundings in a new manner.
For those of you who have succesfully quit drinking in the first phase will be surprised at how easy it is to pick up some of these things. Scientists have shown that when alcoholics quit drinking they report a drastic leap in cognitive response. They have found that this is because the brain has started repairing the brain cells and growing new ones (they are just as capable as older children to grasp new concepts. they have yet to do a comparison between drinkers who repent and those who never drank).
Another reason why this phase includes the learning of a new language or concept is because it teaches us to conciously recognize how certain ideas are encoded into our memory. Some consider dreaming as a consolidation process. If we understand what codes and formulations are necessary to help the mind function, than we can recognize these as they are occuring in our dream state.

PHASE III (3/1/05 - 3/31/05)

EXPANSION AND ASCENTION

This may or may not be the most trying phase. I don't know because I have never gotten this far. The idea is to introduce a higher plane of existence and mental functioning into our lives. Perhaps the first two months could be considered preparation for what awaits us in this phase.

The focus this month is to create. Take what we are learning, what we have seen, what we are feeling, what we have done... and make it what we want it to be. It is my expectation that during this period we should be dreaming lucidly fairly consistantly, and that our dreams have shown us a little more about ourselves than we had previously encountered. Now is where we try to either make sense of it, or accept it at a personal or spiritual level.

There are two things we will be doing during this phase.
1) Conditioning ourselves for polyphasic sleep. I will be setting up a series of links to show what polyphasic (or uberman) sleep cycles are. Their benefits include more vivid dreaming with an increase in lucidness, increases in mental functioning and awareness, and the opportunity to take control of the most primitive of our habits. This will be difficult for all of us not just because of the nature of the process, but also because it is something that is hard to explain to those who are watching your attempts to evolve.

2) Whatever we feel. Some will choose artistic endeavors, some will make changes to their "careers", some will ameliorate the internal struggles they once had, some will do nothing "out of the ordinary". The purpose of this phase is to affirm to oneself "I am in control. I am truly doing what I want. This is life as I know it, and as I want it to be."

_____________

As I had said before, this is something I will be doing and have already taken the preliminary steps for. I am extending it as an opportunity for any of you to either join me, or laugh at such a preposterous suggestion. I am also looking for suggestions from many of you because the purpose is one of personal growth and improvement of mental abilities... something I know many of you have spent a great deal of time researching. Please, I would love nothing more than to hear your thoughts on this no matter what they may be.

**wasup** · 11-07-2004 09:11 PM

Great post, I will try to put some of these methods into use. I should try to work out more often, or at least go on walks every once in a while instead of rotting my brain (its always nice to be outside for a while and notice how much nicer it is than inside).

Awesome post, I'm going to read it again.

EDIT: You mean "affect".

**insanejester** · 11-07-2004 10:30 PM

don't forget about eliminating sodas.... (one of the worst legal drugs in my oppinion --- caffine)

yeah... this all sounds like a great idea.... i'm already doing most of it myself... also the limitation if not elimination of red meat is also a good idea

**Howie** · 11-07-2004 11:22 PM

With most things in my life that I have tried to refine I find that I have to tackle these things one at a time. Several do in fact fall into the catagories you have described. I would praise anyone who can restructure their lifestyle to such a degree. Good luck with the procedure. I myself do not think I can persue so many efforts at once.

**loose id** · 11-07-2004 11:28 PM

Originally posted by Howetzer
I myself do not think I can persue so many efforts at once.

That's why I am starting this stuff now. That way I have gotten most of it out of my system when I actually start Phase I. It gives me a chance to falter before I fly.

**Howie** · 11-07-2004 11:44 PM

Originally posted by loose id+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(loose id)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Howetzer

I myself do not think I can persue so many efforts at once.

That's why I am starting this stuff now. That way I have gotten most of it out of my system when I actually start Phase I. It gives me a chance to falter before I fly.[/b]

This is a good way to approach your Idea. I wish you luck.

A Getting things out of my system method never worked for me. I have to be ready to rid myself of that particular obstical when I am ready. Otherwise I tend to fall back into it harder, A particular habit that is.

**dream-scape** · 11-08-2004 04:58 PM

Originally posted by loose id
4) Blueberries, grapes, and other foods rich in antioxidants (suggestions welcome)

Anything with Lycopene. Lycopene is said to be one of the most powerful naturally occurring antioxidants. Minor sources of Lycopene include watermelon, pink-grapefruit, and tomatoes; the richest source of dietary Lycopene is processed tomato products because there is something about it being much easier to absorb from a tomato when first heated/processed (sauce, juice, soup, etc).

**Gezus** · 11-08-2004 05:22 PM

Are strawberries, raspberries, etc... basically all the berries good? Because I'm incredibly picky when it comes to fruit and vegetables, the only thing I volontarily eat are berries, and I drink bananas.

**Negaigoto** · 11-08-2004 06:04 PM

admirable goals. i wish you well, and would like to see the results. myself, i do a fair number of the things you're mentioned, having aquired good eating habits at an early age and due to stomach problems, my diet improves. keep and eye on your vitamins and etc, though, there are a great deal of things that you never realize you're dependant on... but i'm assuming that's alerady in a lot of your prep work.

wasup: you said you want to do this, which is all very well, but considering your age group, u have to remember that u really have to go out of your way for that kind of diet, and u'll need parental permission if not outright help. just something to keep in mind; the caffine and chocolate and so forth is easy, but u'd be amazed at what's in something that looks totally innocent...

as stated above, good luck to everyone who tries this... i'm gaining my control slowly through my series of experiences, myself, and i take pride in slowly evolving my consciousness... it works for me.

**Jammy** · 11-08-2004 11:17 PM

Great thread here. Really interesting reading. Ive been in and out of many of these excersices. But maybe i join for full in three months. It would be an awsome project to press oneself to do this. Only thing i got to add is maybe a meditation/visualisation excercise under phase 2-mental.

**lord soth** · 11-09-2004 02:51 AM

4) Blueberries, grapes, and other foods rich in antioxidants (suggestions welcome) [/b]

LOTS of ketchup...

you also have water on your list twice, was that intended?

i am not with you on the sleep cycles, i dont watch alot of TV and i think that the computer is actually "benifitial" to human survival... yea... but good idea, i guess i could find a better diet.

**incognito** · 11-18-2004 02:01 AM

This is the first thread I've come across that deals a lot with diet relating to dreaming, etc... so I'll just post this rather vague question here... and maybe somebody will direct me to a thread that has much more to do with it then disturbing this particular research project.

Seriously though, how can what you eat possibly have any effect on your mental state or ability to lucid dream? This almost seems to me like a .... placebo of sorts though I know that's not the word I'm looking for. Some measure of self control that really serves no biological purpose but simply performs a pyschological one. You believe it should help, therefore it does.

**Howie** · 11-18-2004 02:30 AM

Originally posted by incognito
This is the first thread I've come across that deals a lot with diet relating to dreaming, etc... so I'll just post this rather vague question here... and maybe somebody will direct me to a thread that has much more to do with it then disturbing this particular research project.

Seriously though, how can what you eat possibly have any effect on your mental state or ability to lucid dream? This almost seems to me like a .... placebo of sorts though I know that's not the word I'm looking for. Some measure of self control that really serves no biological purpose but simply performs a pyschological one. You believe it should help, therefore it does.

Our administrater, Seeker is coducting an expierement simiar to these lines.
Does what you eat each night brfore you go to bed effect dream recall:

http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8261

Check it out. Along with some of the other interesting research going on

As far as tha placebo affect .....I feel that can apply to several areas of lucid dreaming.

**Dylan** · 11-21-2004 01:26 AM

I really like the idea. In fact I will probably join you. I'd probably want to add a few things as well though, meditation being one of them, and spontaneity being another. I mean, this is an experiment of course, but I think an important thing here is to not let your life get repetative and routinelike.

So instead of a STRICT excersize plan, like "running each morning for 30 minutes", howbout just an "excersize time" where you do different things that you plan the night before. For example "Tomorrow I'll go rock climbing.", or "Tomorrow I'll go kayaking." or "Tomorrow I'll go hiking." etc. You'd have time to make the appropriate plans and preparations for the next day. But of course you won't always have the time for things like that, so I think adopting a "go with the flow" attitude is good with this, which I think you have already done. Martial arts and working out is great as well, I do both, and they're excellent. But I think outdoor lifestyle sports are really important as well. They're fun too, and I believe should be incorporated.

Anyway about the spontaneity thing... perhaps doing something new each day, not just ONE new thing, but trying to do and look at a couple things differently as well. Not so much with an attitude like "Ok, time to be spontaneous... what should I do now.". No, that's not spontaneity, that's just planned randomness. It's more about trying to adopt a more open attitude and trying to... well... be more spontaneous.

For example, got some work to do? How about biking down to the beach and doing it there... or you know, who knows. Often we get random thoughts like that, but we supress them because we feel that they are wrong. Why not try following some of them, with of course being practical.

Now... since this is an experiment, spontaneity will vary among different people because, well its all relative to each person. But I think it would be benificial? It also exserts this idea of control that you are suggesting.

What do you think? It's an idea.

I love what you're saying about always being productive, and improving yourself. I've adopted this attitude, and have been actually trying a similar lifestyle. I find that it's easy to slip at the same time though. So I also I think that that month of easing into it is a good thing. I found that trying to do too many things at once and being very strict about it is a sure way to set yourself up for failure. Perhaps a step-by-step weekly plan could be introduced? A major major thing as well, is the idea of letting go. You can't be perfect. And people see things too often as "failing"... see it not as failing, but as learning. Thats what I like about meditation... the idea of accepting every time a thought comes into your mind, acknowledging it, and then letting it go.

Also - have you ever heard about the spartan health regime? It sounds quite similar, I think you should check it out. (www.spartanhealth.com I believe, if It's wrong just Google it.) It's pretty much a philosophy of eating things the way nature created them, and not the way man has changed them... hmm I really think you should check it out though. The website is kind of a silly advertisement, but there should be a link somewhere on there to download the the first chapter of the book. It's been a while since I've read it, I forget what their overall philosophy is, but their philosophy on food and dieting interests me. I'm definately going to check it out as well, you do the same - tell me what you think.

Cheers,
Dylan

**Khronos** · 11-21-2004 03:19 AM

Nice post m8, I can relate to what you are saying. By taking a 3rd person perspective over all aspects of life, you'll increase both morals and mind, in an overall effect giving you a clear view of awareness and interpretations. I have always been one of those deep drifters who barely holds onto their social life for they see little purpose, my mind was at a complete neutral. But in the last view months I have found determination to balance both physical and mental states, and you are exactly right that it works. Your motives seem a bit drastic, but just remember your main train of thought. Focus, discipline and determination (breathing), cleansing the spirit, and releasing that which is within.

Here are my opinions on your phases:

Phase 1: Don't be too harsh on yourself from the start, actually instead of jumping right into it why not start modifying your diet now. This way it will be easier for you to keep up with your goal, without as much effort.

Phase 2: This is a great idea, ever since I was 14 I've been doing mind and body exercises. I reccommend you research ki and breathing techniques. Aswell I reccommend you take a greater look at your passions and compassions, look inside yourself without reason and purpose and you will see your answers clearly as you find them.

Phase 3: To unlock your surpressed potential, to believe you can do anything for you yourself are your own eternal source, your own god. The 7 powers of intention might help you overcome this, it did for me. Creative, Kindness, Love/Appreciation, Beauty/Truth, Expansive, Abundance and receptive. Repeat these words and find your meanings for them.

Hope this helps.

**LordCoreon** · 11-21-2004 04:00 AM

I read this a few times to make sure I got it all. This sounds like a world changing idea to me and I want to be a part of it! for the last month I've been trying to change my diet (It relly helped seeing supersize me) so I'm wondering if i should hold off till january or just go ahead now.

Anyway I want wish the others trying this good luck.

**LewisM** · 11-21-2004 04:06 AM

Hey, I love the idea and I think I'll implement some of those things into my life.

I have a couple of opinions on the food. Antioxidants are great and all, but there is more to consider. I recently had a nutrition lecture. The main point of the lecture was a to have adequate carbohydrates. Especially if you're going to be doing aerobic exercises every day (combined with dynamics) you will need a lot of carbohydrates to keep you healthy and make exercising easier and more productive. Im not an expert so I dont know much but I know you can get carbs from bread and rice... and a lot of other things.

If you want to cut down on meat, that's great but I think it is a lifestyle choice, not a health choice. A large steak (make sure you cut off the fat which is counterproductive to exercising) can provide one's daily intake of protein in one go.

Water... Most people are dehydrated without knowing it. Scientists and pros say you should be drinking anything from 5 litres to 10 litres a day... but I dont think anyone actually does this. I carry a drinkbottle around with me at school and this reminds me to drink water as well as supplying the water at all times.

**Dylan** · 11-21-2004 04:14 AM

Definately don't hold off until January. What's with people's (including myself) need for sheduled starting dates for things like these. I mean, its good and all and it helps get you excited, but at the same time, it's just another way to procrastinate. What would you do if you didn't have calendars? What's the use to wait a few months to start improving your life?

It kind of confuses me... because you'd think we would want to start right away. But even me, I've noticed I need to have that "fresh start" the "clean slate". This idea that "everything needs to be perfect before I can begin" is pretty common, on different levels though of course. And it's only ever going to screw you up in the future, life isn't perfect... you (not you, but people in general) just need to let things go more. It's that feeling if you screw up in a workout plan or something "... ah... fuck. well ok, i'll start next week" or "i'll start my new diet tomorrow!" even if you do start tomorrow, that problem is still there, the need for that immediate sudden start.

I say, and I'm still working on this myself, whatever your aspirations are, start them now. Start preparing for them, or doing them now. Whatever. But I wouldn't leave things until later unless there is a specific reason to. Ask yourself whenever you're putting something off "why?". You can come up with pretty good exuses usually, but deep down you'll know what's true and what isn't, so you have to be honest with yourself. This way, you will always be improving. Whats the use in planning to improve later?

Is there ANYTHING but this moment?

Cheers,
Dylan

**Dylan** · 11-21-2004 04:17 AM

Oops

you posted before I finished Lewis. That last post was in response to LordCoreon, but is general anyway. Lewis, I like what you said about the carbs. Most carbs should be gotten from raw fruits. Very very good for you. Cooked vegetables are good as well, but you've lost quite a bit of the nutrients once they're cooked. But fruits.. VERY IMPORTANT!!!

Dylan

**LordCoreon** · 11-21-2004 04:27 AM

Originally posted by Dylan
bunch-o stuff

I said to start this around january so the people doing this could report there findings all at once and possible set this up simmaler to Seeker's Food and Dream Recall experament.

Btw: please tell me how to get the name to appear with the quote.

**Dylan** · 11-21-2004 04:35 AM

Ahh... my bad. Regardless, it's still good advice for anyone that stumbles across this post IMO.

As for the quote thing. instead of [quote] _________ .. make it [quote] _________ so...

I said to start this around january...

I think he said he was already starting to improve some things... I think it's probably best to ease into it... because these are major lifestyle changes... the sooner the better. The REAL experiment i think is after that first month in january, when you are finally "prepared" for whatever it is he is going to follow up with.

Dylan

**LordCoreon** · 11-21-2004 04:42 AM

Thankyou for informing the newb!

**Torcher** · 12-13-2004 06:14 AM

I've been planning something like this for myself, and was glad to find it here. Having noted myself as being in dire need of habit alterations, this post has awakened me to necessity. I'm in.

**loose id** · 12-29-2004 03:55 PM

Tomorrow is the day I start. Jan 1st is rapidly approaching.

Should we start a thread for this somewhere or stick with this location?

Also, unless the mods have a serious objection, I'm going to make a post in General Discussion to point people here. If [mods] would prefer another type of promotion, please pm me.

**marctheseeer** · 12-29-2004 11:48 PM

Good luck with it!

The hard part will be not reaching orgasm, at least for me. You know, whenever I reach orgasm, I feel like I did something stupid a second later. That must mean something. Again, good luck.