Thread: Let's discuss evolution from a scientific perspective -not for Creationist, anti-scientific argument

Originally Posted by DeviantThinker

I agree with you Mr Matter that pure socialism is not the way to go but I do not think libertarianism in it's purest form is a realistic form of governance either. It assumes that humans are far more trustworthy than they really are. I think there has to be some kind of societal framework to keep individuals from asserting dominance over others. The only question is what sort of framework and how much power should be given to it. There are certainly many compelling arguments for deregulation the libertarian employs such as the fact that the FDA leads to far more deaths from delayed acceptance of treatments than it saves in preventing faulty ones.

However, this is very off-topic. I think we should have a more specialized thread for this, perhaps in the philosophy sub-forum. Sorry for this lengthy digression, Steph.

I have no problem with my thread delving slightly off topic - I think often requiring threads to stay strictly on topic kills the organic nature of human thought and conversation, which tends to need to delve into detours in order to discuss the origins of ideas - like for instance the type of mentalities that insist on disbelieving evolution or other aspects of science.

I don't consider myself a hard libertarian - that sounds a bit scary to me! I'm more attracted to classical liberalism, which is essentially what was laid down by the founding fathers in the constitution to begin with. Not "no government" but a small government with checks and balances to keep it from amassing too much power and from getting involved in our lives too much. Classical liberalism is one of the branches of libertarianism. And actually I would say the opposite of what you did here - "I do not think libertarianism in it's purest form is a realistic form of governance either. It assumes that humans are far more trustworthy than they really are".

I say that allowing a government as centralized and controlling as what we have now is putting too much trust in people. In the ones in charge to be specific. Government tends toward incompetence and often to corruption, and the people who are drawn to power are often corrupt people. Government's job should be to protect our liberties, not to find ways to violate them.

You also said - "I think there has to be some kind of societal framework to keep individuals from asserting dominance over others." Exactly. Like the kind of dominance government has assumed. How can we get them to relax their death grip on their own power? As Benjamin Franklin said, “Those who would give up Essential Liberty, to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety".

I should add that many of these ideas are brand new to me and the reason I bring them up in here is in hopes that I will hear from some people with different takes on it, so I can learn more. While one of my main sources claims to be libertarian, I suspect he might actually be right wing, and I'm trying to separate the two belief systems.

But yeah, I don't mean for this to become a major part of the conversation here - just wanted to respond to that.

Ok, I guess it's my job now to bring it back on topic…

Steph, that is really bizarre and fascinating, an animal that does photosynthesis?? And I'm actually being completely serious - not just trying to get back on topic. That is a bit of a mind blower!! so far the most alien creatures we've discovered are those that exist deep in our own oceans. Here we are, trying to explore outer space, when we have yet to understand many aspects of our own planet!