Here is an excellent video tutorial on exit techniquesQuote:
Originally Posted by LawPaw
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Here is an excellent video tutorial on exit techniquesQuote:
Originally Posted by LawPaw
Ok thanks. Also, I read that with ,listening in, one should note the dynamics of the sound. So, it doesn't have to get very loud, you just have to keep listening to it? if so, when do you attempt to seperate after you've been listening to it. Finally, what kind of things with listening in indicates that it should be pursued to a full separation attempt?
Thanks for that.
I have to say that I have finally been able to wake up without moving (yay!). I don't know if it's coincidence or not, but after watching this video before going to sleep last night I managed to dream a dream and wake up exactly when it ended, lay still and try to have a WILD. Problem was, I only tried Phantom Wiggling and the one where you rotate your body. I felt my dream arm lifting, it was weird, it felt as if one of my fingers was stuck in the edge of a surface while the rest of my hand was trying to pull up and away form it, even though my hand was just laying there and resting on a completely flat surface (and nowhere near the edge of it). Weird thing is, the one where you rotate your body didn't work for me, and I could only perform the Phantom Wigggling in my left arm. After a while I moved my legs and did the pinch nose RC to see if I was dreaming and I wasn't :(
I was having too much trouble pulling my (dream) arm up, it was REALLY heavy, and the rotation thingy didn't work (even though it did once before). Then I tried again even though I moved and the same thing happened, and for a second I was able to imagine a scenery but it faded as soon I noticed I was imagining it. Then I tried imagining an object, an apple (rotating between t ying to imagine an object, Phantom Wiggling and the one where you rotate your body). Phantom Wiggling was still hard, my arm was frickin' heavy and after a while I was able to start moving my right arm in the same manner too, couldn't get both of them past a specific height though. I then managed to see a really faint blurry apple in my mind but I heard some sounds in the background and it dissipated. After trying Phantom Wiggling again (body rotation one still not working) I accidentally tried too hard and moved both my arms up for real :P
Then I gave up and went back to sleep +_+
Weird thing is I never felt any sign of SP. What's up with that?
Two Indirect Techniques is the bare minimum, more gives you better chances for successQuote:
Originally Posted by vmenge
This happens to me too. If after five seconds I don't experience any evidence of an approaching lucid I switch to another Indirect Technique.Quote:
Originally Posted by vmenge
If you are after an OBE then try using movement free RC's, that way you won't ruin the trance that you're in.Quote:
Originally Posted by vmenge
Seeing a blurry apple is an excellent sign as that is a dream beginning to form :)Quote:
Originally Posted by vmenge
Keep at it, you are experiencing great phenomena, you are nearly there :)Quote:
Originally Posted by vmenge
I rarely experience sleep paralysis, so don't worry about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by vmenge
So I continue on reading the book. I'm about half through and got to the OBE section. But I'm reading it in Russian so I have understood what is OBE JUST NOW. At first I did not understand what is this "holding up to the objects to get out of body" about. Now I have some questions.
1.) Does phase=Sleep Paralysis?
2.) What is the main difference between LD induction and OBE induction?
From what I understood, you can't get OBE if you haven't got into SP, as you can in LD. You can do reality checks in real life so it will carry on to your dreams and you will get an LD even if you haven't got there through SP (I guess it happened to me before as I replied in this thread)
3.) Does OBE mean that you will ALWAYS see yourself in YOUR bedroom?
3.) Can you create your environment in OBE? For example, you see yourself in bed, open the door and you're not in your house anymore
Thanks for the support, this is super exciting
Thanks. I've actually had a couple of LD's this week using what is probably something like the "Limb Creation" section of this video.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcwillis
I usually don't have any problem getting my arms free through Phantom Wiggling. So what I've been doing when the rest of me is stuck is to focus on my phantom arms and essentially tell myself that I am in an LD. Then I begin rubbing my hands together just like Raduga's Deepening technique. This morning I also started rubbing my face, which seems to work even better.
Eventually (and pretty quickly) I find myself in an LD. It is exactly like what Raduga says to do if you roll out of your body without vision, only I do it before I've fully gotten out. I think it only works because I tell myself I am in an LD. It's probably just a form of "teleportation."
I feel hesitant to recommend since Raduga warns against deepening before exiting in his books. I feel like it would be better to separate first.
It is kind of like "limb creation" except that I pretty much create my whole body from my arms.
Please correct me if I´m wrong... by reading the book I understood that to use indirect techniques effectively you have to sleep for at least 6 hours and then wake up with a timer, then, after that, you´ll have to go back to sleep and then wake up at will after each dream or REM cycle... but how are we going to wake up at will after a REM cycle? This is not clear to me...
You already naturally wake up at the end of each REM cycle. The trick is recognizing those awakenings. Mantras before sleep tend to help.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sahashara
Mzzkc is quite correct. However, Mr. Raduga suggests not to do this though in early training until you have some experience of success with using Indirect Techniques with WBTB after six hurs sleep. I have started using them at the end of REM cycles during the night and having great success but only because I have a working experience of using the techniques during WBTB after a night's sleep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sahashara
So, during my first atempts I may use the indirect techniques using a timer (wbtb, because I´ll have to move my body)
My point is how to train to perceive I´m awake after every REM cycle. Mzzkc told about mantras, as an example, to help. What are Mr Raduga suggestions about this subject?
I admit I never thought this could even be possible. It´s the same as autosuggestion, like, for example: "I will wake up after 6 hours of sleep, I will wake up after 6 hours of sleep, I will...." something like this?
I´m really sorry. I know this sounds extremely newbie question but, at least in this moment, Mr Raduga approach to lucid dreams looks so difficult in practise (comparing with all other techniques in dreamviews - mild, fild, thousands of different wilds, dild, etc).
Actually Mr. Raduga's approach is best because it is so easy. At least if you want to be able to consistently have results at will.
I think you'll be surprised just how powerful intention is with sleep. If you focus on waking up at the end of sleep cycles as you fall asleep you will probably naturally just do it.
My biggest problem at first is that I would wake up 90 minutes after falling asleep every time, then find it difficult to fall back asleep. I was trying to WILD since I hadn't moved and didn't know it had only been 90 minutes.
Find an alarm that automatically shuts off after several seconds and you won't have to worry about ruining a good awakening without moving.
What I do is to set an MP3 7 second alarm for about 6 hours after I fall asleep. When it goes off I try to WILD. If I don't get into the Phase after 4 or 5 cycles of 4 or 5 techniques I get up for several minutes then fall back asleep with the same 7 second alarm going off every half an hour until I need to get up for work.
It's probably better to wake up naturally, but during the week that is just too difficult.
I think I am going to start using the ramp alarm cycle form lucidology 101 for a while though.
No don't use a timer, it will ruin your chances by 50-75%Quote:
Originally Posted by Sahashara
Yes use auto suggestion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sahashara
This is the easiest method there is. 50% of people have success within 3 days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sahashara
I had a pure DILD the very first time I used the four minute ramp timer, though if others reading this are confused this is a completely different method.Quote:
Originally Posted by LawPaw
Thanks for all the information. Now that you helped me to understand better, I feel I have the basics to start right away. Anyway, the good point using this approach is that I don´t see any contradiction about using mild (the technique I´m applying right now). So, I´ll practise to the point that if I don´t remember that I´m dreaming inside the dream, I´ll have another chance as soon as the rem cycle ends and I wake up.
No. The Phase is the authors term for lucid dreams. He invented a new term because he felt that all the other terms tend to be surrounded by mysticism and can cloud people perception about what he is talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by halfer
The main difference is that an OBE is specifically entered into from a waking state. It is a WILD (wake initiated lucid dream). Usually you have a sense of leaving your body and enter the phase (LD) in a dream simulated version of where your physical body is.Quote:
Originally Posted by halfer
This isn't always true since "observing images" can put you in the phase somewhere else or you may "teleport" directly out of your body to another location.
That could be technically true (in the sense that the body is in SP for all lucid dreams), but you certainly can get an OBE without fully sensing a full SP. Don't focus too much on SP.Quote:
Originally Posted by halfer
No. I haven't seen myself in my OBE's.Quote:
Originally Posted by halfer
Keep reading. He'll get to that better than we can.Quote:
Originally Posted by halfer
No. As LawPaw has said 'The Phase' is a generic term encompassing lucid dreams and the phenomena of one's consciousness exiting the bodyQuote:
Originally Posted by halfer
That depends on what type of OBE you want, I would suggest researching astral and etheric projection as they are different.Quote:
Originally Posted by halfer
When I have an etheric projection, yes I do see my physical body in bed. Not with an astral projection.Quote:
Originally Posted by halfer
In an etheric projection you can only observe your surroundings. In an astral projection you have an astral body that you can use.Quote:
Originally Posted by halfer
mcwillis, I'm having problems. It's been a week and a half since I started reading this book and I had no success whatsoever. I had only one dream and even that one wasn't a WILD. I realized myself in a dream somehow. I'm not reading the book further at the moment because I'm afraid I will forget everything I have read by the time I will get a real WILD.
I'm trying almost every night. Yes, night. WBTB is not suitable for me because I don't have an alarm that will stop ringing after a minute, which means I WILL have to move.
Can you give me some advice?
I just found a website containing the entire book without the need to download it.
School of Out-of-Body Travel. A Practical Guidebook | by Michael Raduga
I have not been very committed to this method because I was torn between methods but after last night I think I am only going to focus on this method.
Just as planned I woke up without moving I tried to wiggle my arms and it seemed to work a little but then I tried to spin and did like 360 in my bed so I rolled out of bed used deepening techniques and had a long successful LD!
:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:Quote:
Originally Posted by moongrass
yes, thanks I was so excited. I knew it would work because so many people swear by it, but it was so easy and it was a very good quality LD!
I hope that you give this thread a good vote then!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by moongrass
what do you mean give it a good vote?
At the top of this page, just above the first post, on the right hand side it says 'Rate This Thread'. Click on it and click on whatever radio button you choose and then click on the 'Vote Now' button.Quote:
Originally Posted by moongrass