What happened? Post Your WILD Attempts, Good or Bad, Here

So i tried my first attempt after going back on track. It was a nap attempt like i promised last time.

I went in just to practice quieting my mind. I started noticing my breaths and counting. I got to around 40 then i unconsciously stopped counting and stayed there thoughtless. I eventually broke out of a daydream? It was like someone talking to me and i was trying to move my mouth to reply. Anyways, after that i stayed there some more and my body got a weird numb feeling and then i started hearing that buzz sound, there were a couple of noises but no sensations worth mentioning. I was trying to see some HI again but all i could see was a very slight small coloured shape in the center of my eyelids. This all, like each time, lasted for 10~15 seconds then stopped. The new thing i noticed is that after those "hallucinations" were over i noticed a strong urge to swallow that effectively broke my motionless state.

Interesting, but quite weird. What is going on here? The same thing every time, i lay there motionless, end up in a daydream then break out, then ultimately ending up in a hallucination state that lasts shortly then ends and nothing special happens after that.

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Originally Posted by TDHXIII

Interesting, but quite weird. What is going on here? The same thing every time, i lay there motionless, end up in a daydream then break out, then ultimately ending up in a hallucination state that lasts shortly then ends and nothing special happens after that.

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You might consider not "breaking out" of that daydream: What you experienced might have been some HI or a dreamlet, and probably would have been better left alone, rather than noticing it or trying to stop it. The same goes for the rest of the noise you list, like the buzzing: just let it occur, and instead choose to stay focused on the dream.

Also, if you have an urge to swallow, then swallow. Your WILD will not be ruined by calmly succumbing to a bodily function that needs to be handled, but it will be ruined, every time, if you struggle to fight that function -- in this case that urge to swallow -- in order to keep perfectly still.... sometimes a little motion is okay, as long as you just let it happen and think nothing of it. In my opinion, staying perfectly still during a WILD is more myth than necessity: Hold still, yes, but if movement is required to prevent an otherwise minimal event (like swallowing) from occupying all of your attention, then go ahead and move so you can get on with your WILD.

Anyway, back to your question:

What could be happening here, TDHXIII, is something I may have mentioned once or twice before: You might be more interested in, or focused on, the things that are happening during your WILD than on the Big Thing that is meant to happen at the end of your WILD attempt: the dream itself. Your account above has no mention of your focus on the dream, or for that matter anything about the intended dream at all (i.e., no intentions set, no mention of goals, no attempt to visualize or form your dream, etc). I think that if you can maintain your upcoming lucid dream as your only priority during your WILD, you might find yourself progressing toward it more easily, and you might also find yourself less distracted by the noise.

tl;dr: A successful WILD depends on staying focused on your dream, and not on the noise. Try to remember during the WILD why you are doing all this, avoid making a prority of the distractions of your body's normal path to sleep, allow yourself to calmly move to correct unavoidable physical issues like swallowing or itching, and you might finally find yourself emerging into a dream, and not waking-life.

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Originally Posted by Sageous

Anyway, back to your question:

What could be happening here, TDHXIII, is something I may have mentioned once or twice before: You might be more interested in, or focused on, the things that are happening during your WILD than on the Big Thing that is meant to happen at the end of your WILD attempt: the dream itself. Your account above has no mention of your focus on the dream, or for that matter anything about the intended dream at all (i.e., no intentions set, no mention of goals, no attempt to visualize or form your dream, etc). I think that if you can maintain your upcoming lucid dream as your only priority during your WILD, you might find yourself progressing toward it more easily, and you might also find yourself less distracted by the noise.

tl;dr: A successful WILD depends on staying focused on your dream, and not on the noise. Try to remember during the WILD why you are doing all this, avoid making a prority of the distractions of your body's normal path to sleep, allow yourself to calmly move to correct unavoidable physical issues like swallowing or itching, and you might finally find yourself emerging into a dream, and not waking-life.

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It might have been my fault for slipping my awareness while counting because i ended up in a daydream that i do not have awareness through. It's a poor choice to use "break out" as what i did. What really happened is that i suddenly got my awareness back after that daydream ended. That's concerning the daydream. As for the noise, i only experience the noise all at once (audio and sensation hallucinations) . When any of them happen, i become sorta excited and i unintentionally listen to the sounds and feel the sensations, maybe that's me doing the wrong thing. I understand that noise must be ignored, but it's harder than it sounds like to do so.

As for swallowing, i will try to not resist it from now on. As for my focus, i'm excited about the dream, but you're right because i'm putting focus on passing the noise to conclude success. I will try to see it in a different light. My mindset when i layed down was to practice clearing my mind, but it worked wonders. I will go into my WILDs with this mindset then.

Anyways, regarding what to do when i get into the noise stage. i thought if is it a good idea to start visualizing a scene immediately after the noise starts? I forgot about that advice on my attempt, the "fuse them for a dream" thing. But that only creates focus on them. Maybe if i visualize a dream scene, and make the buzzing sound like as if i were in a military base on alert, and the voices as wireless transmitters on my ears, this would work out great?

And after thinking more about it:
Sight - Create a dream environment
Sound - Already present
Touch - Half present

This might show that creating a dream using the noise is easier than in normal raw cases, because some senses are there already and that i only need to create 1 or 2 more senses to merge them all hopefully into a dream. Aside from that, i'm getting pumped up because i've never dreamed i would get this far on a WILD attempt.

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Originally Posted by TDHXIII

Anyways, regarding what to do when i get into the noise stage. i thought if is it a good idea to start visualizing a scene immediately after the noise starts? I forgot about that advice on my attempt, the "fuse them for a dream" thing. But that only creates focus on them. Maybe if i visualize a dream scene, and make the buzzing sound like as if i were in a military base on alert, and the voices as wireless transmitters on my ears, this would work out great?

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Sure, visualize away, and those are excellent analogies for "converting" the noise. But yes, don't forget about the dream, wherever you are in your WILD.

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Aside from that, i'm getting pumped up because i've never dreamed i would get thienfar on a WILD attempt.

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As you should; good luck!

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Originally Posted by Sageous

Sure, visualize away, and those are excellent analogies for "converting" the noise. But yes, don't forget about the dream, wherever you are in your WILD.

As you should; good luck!

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Alright, thanks for the tips you gave me. I'm almost there!

^^ Yes, you are...

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Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ Yes, you are...

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Literally the only 2 things left for me to do now are to adjust my WBTB timing and then passing the noise. My questions are almost over!

Okay, so, like I said earlier, I was going to stay up for 45 minutes last night. And I did. It was pretty similar to staying up for an hour (when keeping close awareness of my mantra). I stayed aware for an hour and 15 minutes, and felt like I needed to roll over; so I got up, then layed back down in the same position. I actually reached mild vibrations then after around 10 minutes. Well as per-freakin-usual I focused on the vibrations and they went away. T-T But anyways, I never fully fell unconcious (well, I did at the end of the WILD when I gave up), but my mind would wander deeply, and sometimes be very illogical. You were mentioning in an earlier post up there about "dreamlets", you think that could be what I'm experiencing? I, almost immediately, if I'm not focusing on my mantra, go into a semi-real illogical mind wandering. (phew, mouthful) I can almost hear the noise(s) that go on in the mind wanderings; and that's pretty much the only "sense" that feels real. Usually, it's already happening in my mind's eye, sometimes vividly, and I don't have to visualize anything in order for them to "pop up". And then, normally after a while during my WILD attempt, I'll get to a quiet, relaxed state, where my mind is almost empty and I can focus on my mantra much easier. However, at this point I also feel like the dream is still far away. I think I'm not doing something right, Sageous. I don't think I'm "focusing on the dream" like I'm supposed to. I'm just focusing on my mantra.. so, how exactly does one go about focusing on the upcoming dream? Or, attempting to form a dream while still being aware? I'm sorry if that's a dumb question. ^^'

So next time, I'll be staying up for 30 minutes to see if I fall asleep quickly. If I do, well, then I'll know what to do next. :D

I did a WBTB last night and in my time up i wrote about the dream i wanted to visit (building schemas and whatnot.)

So. I want to meet my Dream guide. I need the proper setting to wild into. I'm going to a meditation garden. a cobblestone path in a green meadow of close cropped st auggie grass. small round dark gray rocks with large flat white rocks marking steps up a small hill. Under a single lotus tree is a meditation bench, a cushion and a small gong. There is a pool with lilly pads off to the side. It's a clear day with a light breeze and slight sweet smell in the air. Next to the bench is a small brown sack. In that brown sack is everything I want. Behind the bench about 10 feet away is a door frame to nowhere. behind that door frame is anywhere and anyone I can imagine.

The next time I wild, I'm coming here. I'm taking a moment to take in my surroundings, to look at my hands, to touch the water, smell the flower and breathe deeply. I will stabilize. then i will reach inside the bag and retrieve a root of pure lucidity. I'll walk over to the door. Take a big bite and say. "behind this door is my dream guide. Tonight we are going to meet."

...

I lay down but was super excited. I kept shifting position and was able to slow it down for a little while but got too excited. I was also feeling jumpy like RLS basically so eventually I gave up. I didn't get into trance at all.

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Originally Posted by tblanco

I did a WBTB last night and in my time up i wrote about the dream i wanted to visit (building schemas and whatnot.)

So. I want to meet my Dream guide. I need the proper setting to wild into. I'm going to a meditation garden. a cobblestone path in a green meadow of close cropped st auggie grass. small round dark gray rocks with large flat white rocks marking steps up a small hill. Under a single lotus tree is a meditation bench, a cushion and a small gong. There is a pool with lilly pads off to the side. It's a clear day with a light breeze and slight sweet smell in the air. Next to the bench is a small brown sack. In that brown sack is everything I want. Behind the bench about 10 feet away is a door frame to nowhere. behind that door frame is anywhere and anyone I can imagine.

The next time I wild, I'm coming here. I'm taking a moment to take in my surroundings, to look at my hands, to touch the water, smell the flower and breathe deeply. I will stabilize. then i will reach inside the bag and retrieve a root of pure lucidity. I'll walk over to the door. Take a big bite and say. "behind this door is my dream guide. Tonight we are going to meet."

...

I lay down but was super excited. I kept shifting position and was able to slow it down for a little while but got too excited. I was also feeling jumpy like RLS basically so eventually I gave up. I didn't get into trance at all.

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Well, at least you planned out exactly what you wanted to do! It is exciting! The first time I planned out exactly how I wanted to spend my upcoming lucid dream I was almost too excited during my WILD attempt too. However, you get used to it after a couple attempts. The same motivation will be there, but you'll be able to focus easier. ^^

By the way, that place sounds amazing. I was feeling peaceful while reading the description lol.

Didn't execute a proper WILD on my WBTB due to some uncomfortableness i was feeling, but i ended up getting a DILD and then i chained 2 dreams through DEILD. I weilded a sword and tried flying for a bit. I had some good practice on stabilization though.

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Originally Posted by Sydney

... but my mind would wander deeply, and sometimes be very illogical. I never fully fell unconscious (well, I did at the end of the WILD when I gave up), but my mind would wander deeply, and sometimes be very illogical. You were mentioning in an earlier post up there about "dreamlets", you think that could be what I'm experiencing?

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It could be dreamlets. I could see them feeling like your mind wandering deeply, and they would be random and illogical for sure. They usually also include some imagery, but I doubt images are always required.

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I, almost immediately, if I'm not focusing on my mantra, go into a semi-real illogical mind wandering.

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Then be sure to stick to your mantra -- but be careful about focusing too hard on it, to the point that you forget about your dream in the name of keeping the mantra going. As the tool to help you maintain focus on the dream/dive, the mantra is not meant to be the point of focus ... use it, but don't make it the priority. Of course, you also need to have something to keep those mind wanderings (also probably dreamlets) from becoming your priority...

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And then, normally after a while during my WILD attempt, I'll get to a quiet, relaxed state, where my mind is almost empty and I can focus on my mantra much easier. However, at this point I also feel like the dream is still far away. I think I'm not doing something right, Sageous. I don't think I'm "focusing on the dream" like I'm supposed to. I'm just focusing on my mantra.. so, how exactly does one go about focusing on the upcoming dream? Or, attempting to form a dream while still being aware? I'm sorry if that's a dumb question.

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The thing you might not be doing right is feeling like the "dream is still far away," I think. The dream -- and sleep -- is probably just around the corner when you get to that quiet, relaxed state. The first step toward focusing on the dream comes here, I think, by calmly realizing that you will be dreaming shortly rather than wondering what you might be doing wrong.

The major step for staying focused on the dream lies in daytime work: Spend time during the day, especially after your RC's/RRC's, just thinking about your upcoming LD. Don't just think about the fact that you will be having one, but also think specifically about it: think about the dream goal you have in mind for it, or the setting in which you expect your LD to take place, and maybe what you imagine it will all be like. In a sense, what you want to do here is make it obvious that you will be having a LD tonight/tomorrow morning, and to give it some some substance you can grab on to, rather than that abstract "I will be lucid tonight" thinking. Also, that popular wandering about after an RC imagining that everything is a dream is an exercise for reaching this mindset as well, though I recommend simply thinking about your upcoming dream, because it is easier and a bit more to the point. This whole exercise doesn't need to last more than a few minutes, so don't worry about it eating up your day.

Another thing to do during the WILD is to make your mantra relate directly to what you plan to dream about. For instance, let's say you have a dream goal of visiting your grandmother: your mantra could be "Granny's house." ...also, re-read the stuff I just wrote above about not letting the mantra be your priority! ;)

Attempting to form a dream when that quiet time emerges from the noise is an excellent idea. Not only does it give you something to do besides thinking that things are going wrong, you also might find the dream forming fairly readily, because you could be asleep and ready for REM.

Finally, the most important thing you must do is never, ever, decide that you are doing something wrong, or that the dive isn't working. As soon as you start thinking that way you are doing something wrong, and the WILD will likely fail. Thinking like that might also keep a DILD from happening should you fall asleep without self-awareness in hand, because you've attached a negative attitude that will follow you into whatever NLD you might have. So it is much better to fail at a WILD attempt with the full knowledge that you will be lucid, no doubt about it. The only time you should consider your dive a bust is after at least 1.5 hours (2hrs is my traditional limit) of lying there with no sign of sleep at all, because that means it is indeed time to give it up and start your waking-life day.

So: keep in mind throughout the dive that the dream is just around the corner, and never, ever far away; focus on the dream you've already thought so much about; consider having your mantra relate to the dream (and don't let it be too important; go ahead and do a little dream-forming; and above all, never ever assume your WILD isn't working -- WILD's are built on a foundation of positive thoughts and expectation; break that foundation and the whole thing crumbles.

So i have thought of a plan for my WBTB attempts.. I'm yet to try anything out but if this does work as i'm expecting, then almost all of my issues are gone.

I have observed my nap attempts that almost always got me close to success. Those naps involved me being mentally quiet a little bit before actually going in for the technique, chances are that's why the last time i attempted, i quickly reached the calm state of mind and then wandered.

To replicate such a process into my WBTB attempts, i have thought about waiting out 25~30 minutes before WILDing. During those minutes, i would be sitting, closing my eyes and quieting my mind. I think that this would allow me to get closer to the "calm and quiet state" but without the risk of losing awareness since i'm not laying down while preparing.

After laying down with my mind relatively "Calm" i can proceed and continue the same process but this time with an anchor. I'm expecting that at this point, i would just zombie my way through until i reach the inevitable "Noise" state. As planned earlier, i will try to combine the hallucinations and use them to create a dream.

This outlines what could be the method that will work for me, since i took nap attempts (and why they almost succeeded) into consideration. My problem previously was that i just would not be able to quiet my mind and focus at the same time. But if i were to quiet my mind, then apply focus afterwards, this would be gone. Now i can't be too sure about all of this, but i WILL give this plan a try.

Based on what worked previously, this is the only thing i can come up with to replicate the same process that i have been following for my nap attempts.

I had [some] success last night, Sageous! I stayed up for 30 minutes for WBTB, and focused on a more interesting mantra ("Chocolate bar," don't ask XD). BUT, I made sure to keep my dream goals my main focus, and only used my mantra if the "dreamlets"/mind wanderings tried to take over. My total attempt time lasted for about an hour and 40 minutes. Let me just tell you what's written in my dream journal:

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I remember I was doing my WILD technique, when suddenly I found myself in my bedroom at my dad's house, sleeping in my sister's bed. Sam called my name. She sounded close. I grunted in reply, because I was "asleep," doing my WILD attempt. She threw something at me on the bed. I opened my eyes and looked at it. It was her phone. A message was open on it that was a conversation between her, my mom, and some guy that wanted a dog [that we didn't have]. I read the messages for a moment, then I found myself back doing my WILD attempt again, in my bed at my mom's house (where I started). A couple seconds passed. I realized where I had just "been."

'Dang, I was just dreaming.' I thought.

About a minute passed. I could feel slight vibrations in my body, and, now that I think about it, I didn't really feel anything at all. I almost felt "wide awake."

I heard thunder roll outside my window, and rain began to pick up. I wondered what time it was. Then I heard my sister and my brother come into my room. They were talking about the storm, "It's starting again." I heard my sister say. I wondered why they were in my room, but my main curiosity was about the thunder and rain. Were we under a thunderstorm or tornado warning? I decided to call this WILD attempt a bust. I sat up, and RCed just in case. I almost knew it before I even did the RC. Sure enough, I was in a false awakening. I tried to control my emotions and actions, but they had already begun to take over me, and I started to rush like I normally do in my lucid dreams. I was ripping my sleep mask off and getting off my slightly larger bed before I told myself that I need to stabilize and remember where I am. I stopped myself moving with MUCH difficulty. I was excited. I could see a little bit of white light coming through my window.

"Okay," I said out loud, to myself. I closed my eyes (which was probably a mistake) for a second, then opened them again. "You are in a dream right now. You can do anything..." But before I could finish grounding myself, the desires of myself started to take over. I walked over to my bedside table and tried to turn on my lamp. But of course it didn't work. I almost told it to light itself, but something else occured to me. I realized I was halfway hunched over, staring at a stuffed animal on my bed. It had a frightened look. I realized what was making me hunched over was my hair. It weighed a good 10 pounds on top of my head, and was all in front of my face. I tried to move it out of the way, but it would barely budge.

So I said, "Hair, UP!" Suddenly, my hair began twisting around to the back of my head. I felt around for my hair. Sure enough, it was "up", like the direction. I don't know what was holding it up. And then I added, "like in a ponytail..." Then, my hair began twisting itself all around and formed its own crude ponytail holder. It felt a little loose and I could see that it was bumpy in my mirror that was now very close to my bed. I then said, "Erase bumps." But I didn't get to see what would happen, because, before I knew it, I was back in RL, in my bed, still doing my WILD attempt. My chest felt hot. My heart was pounding. 'This can't be good to feel.' I thought. I tried to stabilize my breathing and focus on the lucid dream I had just exited. But, to no avail. I decided I should probably get up and record the dream, anyway.

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Sageous, do you think that could have been a successful WILD? Or just a regular False Awakening?

^^ How about we call it a DILD/FA "wake-up" that came about only because you were attempting a WILD?

That in itself is a very good thing, because lucid is lucid, and you did bring it about pretty much right when you were seeking it, which is a primary goal of WILD. This to me is a fine way to become lucid; nice work!

Also, you may not have noticed, but you also did a very good job keeping yourself together during the second, "thunderstorm," FA. Given that you were calling the WILD a bust, that could easily have turned into a plain old NLD, but you had enough WILD residue to keep thoughts of lucidity on your mind and think about doing a RC (which in turn invariably makes you wonder, or realize in this case, that you are dreaming).

As a small aside, it really is okay to close your dream eyes during a dream. As you sort of noted in your report, closing them may have actually helped you keep your wits about you and establish some lucidity (I am assuming that you knew you were dreaming throughout the hair episode).

All in all that was excellent dive, Sydney; it wasn't quite a WILD, but it did the job anyway... I would definitely consider it a success!

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Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ How about we call it a DILD/FA "wake-up" that came about only because you were attempting a WILD?

That in itself is a very good thing, because lucid is lucid, and you did bring it about pretty much right when you were seeking it, which is a primary goal of WILD. This to me is a fine way to become lucid; nice work!

Also, you may not have noticed, but you also did a very good job keeping yourself together during the second, "thunderstorm," FA. Given that you were calling the WILD a bust, that could easily have turned into a plain old NLD, but you had enough WILD residue to keep thoughts of lucidity on your mind and think about doing a RC (which in turn invariably makes you wonder, or realize in this case, that you are dreaming).

As a small aside, it really is okay to close your dream eyes during a dream. As you sort of noted in your report, closing them may have actually helped you keep your wits about you and establish some lucidity (I am assuming that you knew you were dreaming throughout the hair episode).

All in all that was excellent dive, Sydney; it wasn't quite a WILD, but it did the job anyway... I would definitely consider it a success!

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Thanks so much Sageous! Now that I think about it.. that episode with my hair behaving the way it did was really, really strange. XD I'm laughing to myself about it now lol.

I don't know why, but trying to keep myself together during that lucid dream seemed like the hardest thing... I always have had this "go go go" attitude about me during all my lucid dreams; I've never really stopped and considered where I am, who I am. It's always: "Reality check.. oh yay, I'm dreaming! Now let's speed walk through that door." And trying to stop myself was like trying to stop a moving car. However, last night's lucid dream was the first lucid dream where I've actually had the willpower and focus to stop myself.

Yeah, just went off on a tangent, sorry. Here's to tonight's attempt!

Hey, I'm back here cause I decided to interrupt my experiments on WILD initiated from a REM interruption (via a REM detection based Alarm : REM-Dreamer + programmable vibrating alarm for guided return to sleep : gymboss minimax).
I stop that cause I have red several scientific studies and one of them was concluding some kind of REM perturbations the nights following this kind of REM interruptions...

So this morning I made a more classical WILD attempt without using the REM-Dreamer, naturally awoken after 7h of sleep, just after a REM dream I was very well remembering, I did a 15min WBTB where I was mainly seat on my bed, with a very dreamy state of mind.
I was thinking about the dream I just have, and about my goals.

At a moment, I think I should have go back to bed immediately cause I was in this state of mind where a dream is very likely to begin, but I waited the 15 min I planned to wait, then I returned to sleep, perfectly still on my back.

I used my Gymboss with a programmed beep at 10min,10min,5min,5min,30min.
The gymboss was inside the REM-Dreamer's mask (but without the REM-Dreamer engine inside), and the beep was on the "strong" volume.

I never entered in REM, but stayed quite conscious (and perfectly still) during all the process (about 80-90 min), with some short lost of consciousness, using some mantra, and the gymboss clearly helped me to bring me back when I was just lost.
No REM sleep happened.

This experiment leaned me few things:

-beyond the general discomfort on my whole body while I was trying to stay immobile, I observed a cyclic and automated movement signal to my left ankle that was happening every 20-35 sec, and that makes me think that I suffer from a light form of restless legs syndrome, which I suspected, which is not a very good thing for WILD...
lying on my back could make this worst.

-The h+7 target (at 8:00 AM) for WBTB may be not the good window (at least this time) as it seams that I didn't have some significant REM sleep left any longer.
But just before I had got a big dream, so I presume h+5.5 - h+6 should be my next target to try.
I must bring the precision that I took 200mg of 5-HTP at bed time. it could have bring a big REM rebound between 7AM and 8AM.

-it is good to plan a certain duration of WBTB, but the WBTB length is also a "feeling" question.
I must be ready to go back to bed immediately if I feel that a REM sleep is possibly near, as it was maybe the case this morning, for exemple if I feel very dreamy.

Edit:
I want to add two things:
-while my conscious journey in N-REM I did have one perfectly identified Hallucination:
I heard my Gymboss vibration on the bed near to me, but I knew that it was impossible cause the gymboss was on beep mode, not on vibrations mode, and it was close to my face, not on my bed.

-The dreamy state of mind I was able ton keep when I was first seated on my bed,and even when I came came back from the toilets to seat again on my bed, this dreamy sensation was very pleasant and if I can keep this state of mind at every WBTB in the future, with some significant REM sleep left, I'm pretty sure it will be a very good thing for my WILD attempts.
I really have to find the perfect window for WBTB

The same thing happened as did last night.

I had a short dream (this time after I had rolled over on my side after my failed WILD attempt to get a couple minutes' snooze), and I woke up to find myself in another false awakening. However, this one was much more "real" feeling than the previous one, but also very much short lived, and you can read about it in my dream journal here if you'd like. :)

Sageous, I was reading up on the old class thread about forming the dream. You mentioned schemas, and how to enter a dream that way. I tried after around what felt like 30 - 45 minutes, when my mind was quiet, and I hadn't had many dreamlets. I tried to find and focus on something in my vision, and at first it was hard. My eyes were wanting to open (I don't know if I was doing this right). I remember seeing something black "pulsating" on the very right of my closed eyelids. I also noticed the same thing on the other side, and, now that I think about it, it could have just been my eyes. But I was wondering, trying to attach something to what that could be, and all that I could think of was a black hole. And then I thought, well, you can find those in space.

And well, nothing really happened. I kept trying after that, trying to notice different things in my vision, but I could barely make anything out. Sageous, do you have to have at least some imagery to do this? Or do you think it just wasn't the right time?

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Originally Posted by Sydney

Sageous, I was reading up on the old class thread about forming the dream. You mentioned schemas, and how to enter a dream that way. I tried after around what felt like 30 - 45 minutes, when my mind was quiet, and I hadn't had many dreamlets. I tried to find and focus on something in my vision, and at first it was hard. My eyes were wanting to open (I don't know if I was doing this right). I remember seeing something black "pulsating" on the very right of my closed eyelids. I also noticed the same thing on the other side, and, now that I think about it, it could have just been my eyes. But I was wondering, trying to attach something to what that could be, and all that I could think of was a black hole. And then I thought, well, you can find those in space.

And well, nothing really happened. I kept trying after that, trying to notice different things in my vision, but I could barely make anything out. Sageous, do you have to have at least some imagery to do this? Or do you think it just wasn't the right time?

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It certainly helps to have some sort of imagery to build upon, but if you're good at visualization you ought to be able to conjure your own images from scratch when nothing is available. Also, if you're stuck with very plain imagery like those pulsing black dots, you might try turning them into something else first before building a schema around them. For instance, you might try changing the black color to perhaps yellow, and then imagine a couple of lightning bugs flitting about your back yard (or, if you cannot change the color, still imagine them as, say, negative image lighting bugs flitting around a reverse-image version of your back yard... don't be afraid to be as creative or silly as you want; there is nobody around to judge your creations!

Here's a small tip for forming a dream from either a simple "seen" image or straight visualization, if you can manage it: If you still have some control over your eyes, try turning them up in your head, so they are pointing "skyward," or toward your forehead, but still "look" straight ahead of you with your mind's eye as you do your image forming. Doing this seems to have a helpful effect on visualization by taking your physical eyes out of the formula; in other words, it becomes easier to see things that aren't really there (like HI, or your visualized images) because your physical eyes aren't trying to correct what you see with actual images (resulting, of course, with the backs of your eyelids). Doing this might take a bit of practice, because you want to move your eyes up and hold them there without thinking about it, but it does work well.

...And in the end, of course, if you can't manage to form a dream, go back to waiting patiently and confidently; one will form eventually!

My awareness is gradually increasing ever since i stopped a bad habit of mine.. I got another DILD today.
As for WILD, i'm a bit busy these few days but i'll get back to it right away. I'll start with practicing the quiet state of mind.

I have a question.

Is it okay if i move when i first lay down? I'm noticing that i'm not able to relax because i keep trying to stay still..

^^ Sure, it's okay to move a bit, especially when you first lay down.

It is far more important to relax and be comfortable than it is to be constantly still, I think; your primary goals in WILD are holding your focus/self-awareness and actually falling asleep, and being uncomfortable from the get-go is enough of a distraction to challenge both those goals.

So if you must shift around a bit to relax, then go ahead and do so. Yes, holding still is important, but (believe it or not) it is not your priority in WILD -- that must be reserved for the dream!

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Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ Sure, it's okay to move a bit, especially when you first lay down.

It is far more important to relax and be comfortable than it is to be constantly still, I think; your primary goals in WILD are holding your focus/self-awareness and actually falling asleep, and being uncomfortable from the get-go is enough of a distraction to challenge both those goals.

So if you must shift around a bit to relax, then go ahead and do so. Yes, holding still is important, but (believe it or not) it is not your priority in WILD -- that must be reserved for the dream!

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I have to make a few decisions right now, to use my custom anchor or to use the "focus on your breathing" anchor.
I'm leaning towards the one i made up myself.. Let's see if this one works as intended.

I also need confirmation for something about the pre-dream state:
Is it possible to roll-over using my dream body instead of my real body once i'm in this state?

Tried my custom anchor when going to bed just as another test.. I quickly started wandering, then eventually i got my awareness back when i heard someone in the room next to me talking loudly.

On comparison between the breath-focus anchor and the custom anchor i came up with:

Breath-focus-anchor: Counting alongside my breaths, i can't do this without kicking myself too awake. However, when i'm in a sleepy state, i start wandering right after starting to count.

Slow-counting-anchor: Counting every 20~40 seconds. Inbetween each count, i try to get to sleep normally. This has worked for me on a number of times, and it's almost guaranteed to drive me wandering after counting for a bit. The risk with this method is that there is a chance that i may fall asleep inbetween counts. You could say that i'm bargaining away a part of my awareness for the quicker entry into sleep.

So what?
Using my custom anchor. I was able to clear my mind, and wander aimlessly, all while keeping that last bit of consciousness. In other words, WILD the correct way of going to sleep with that small twist into the process.

You may wonder why i'm discussing the anchor at this point, since i've gotten so close already with the breath-focus method.. You could say that i'm making it easier for myself. I'm so close, yet so far. But i think that if i pull off this anchor the correct way, i would be done of this struggling altogether since this anchor is almost natural for me.

I can't keep talking about it though.. Doing it should be the thing i'm doing right now. I'll take this to the test tonight and tomorrow. I already had success with this method before but i have to be sure of it.. I'll post back on what happens then.

Just reporting back saying I haven't quit. XD I stayed up the past couple nights due to having friends over and random things. I attempted last night, with not much success (I only had an hour to attempt, which probably ruined my focus!).

@TDHXIII: Good luck! ^^