What happened? Post Your WILD Attempts, Good or Bad, Here

Reporting again.

This time i was trying to pull off a FILD, at first awakening i failed and i slept but later i apparently did a DEILD and ended up inside a dream. I guess the bouncing between techniques i'm experiencing is only the source of DEILD being the successful thing i did during the last few attempts, which makes DEILD look like the best approach for me. I think the reason that FILD worked so well at the pervious attempt is because it was done with a DEILD aswell. In other words, DEILD is my success technique.

As for the dream, the quality was kinda sloppy, i didn't expect better stuff coming from my first time though. I tried to stabilize in a panic state, but i guess that was even worse for the situation i was in. The dream was rather short and that's probably the result of me being excited and in a hurry. Something that i've had for a long time from my DILDs.

I guess stabilization and quality will be put aside until i get a solid flow of success with DEILD. As it looks right now, the only thing i need to do is to keep my eyes closed upon waking up, then staying completely still until something happens in a few seconds. Thanks to my natural-awakening attempts, i have gotten a bit used to staying still when noticing awakenings.

Based on this, i don't know if i just wasted my time learning how to WILD-the-classic-way when i favor stuff like DEILD that is much easier to do. Well it's not wasted effort as i learned a bunch of stuff that is useful for DEILDing anyways... So let's see what happens next

Busy morning!


Kaan:

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So I guess I will continue to use the Dream Alarm mode of my RD for the next attempts to see if I can use an awakening and WBTB from REM more efficiently than a WBTB based on a natural awakening which I suppose to happen after the end of REM.

This kind of WBTB is probably supposed to be shorter than a "classic" WBTB if I want to make REM sleep come back soon.
Not sure about that but I will start with this hypothesis.
maybe I should start with another position than doing it on my back as it seams to delay the sleep onset, but I will have to be more aggressive on my mantra or any other anchor I will use, cause lying on my side makes me sleep very fast.

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That's an interesting idea; I have a feeling it might work for you... but keep in mind that REM periods are frequent enough after 6 hrs' sleep or so that the wait for them is not too long (so if the RD alarm doesn't work for you, natural awakenings, with practice, still might).


Sydney:

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Originally Posted by Sydney

I just don't understand.. nearly 2-3 years ago when I would attempt my WILDs, merely getting up and using the restroom caused me to stay awake for so long that I just had to give up and try to go to sleep. And even a couple days ago when I stayed up for 35 minutes, I was able to stay awake the whole time. Maybe I'm just subconsciously "giving up" at the time when I start my WILD attempts and I don't even know?

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Or maybe you are a slightly different person, physically and psychologically, than you were 3 yrs ago? That's something to consider, I think. There may have been a lot of other things going on with (and within) you 3 yrs ago that allotted a longer time to get back to sleep. Try not to dwell upon how you were then, but rather on how you are now... and, for what it's worth, wasn't your "ability" to not fall asleep a real problem for you back then? ;)

You might consider falling asleep quickly a good thing; I sure do, and sure wish I was so afflicted! Of course the trick, which you surely will learn, is to take advantage of that tendency to sleep, and not let it take advantage of you. Maintaining self-awareness and focus while your body quickly falls asleep can be trying, though, because your body's transition to sleep can be too speedy to consciously track. Here are a couple of suggestions:

The first and foremost is to get ideas like "Maybe I'm just subconsciously 'giving up' at the time when I start my WILD attempts and I don't even know" out of your head, because that only invites (or excuses) giving up.

Next, you might want to find a mantra that is more interesting; maybe one that relates directly to what you want to do in your dream or, conversely, one that sort of shouts at you to pay attention (my fall-back "Here & Now" mantra does that quite well for me, BTW). There is always a counting anchor as well, though, as you know, I don't think that's a great idea because it might do the job of keeping you awake too well.

And, experimenting with staying up for an hour is a good idea as well -- just be careful to keep those thoughts dreamy the whole time, and don't be tempted to use your phone, TV, or computer to pass the time.

tl;dr: instead of seeing falling asleep too quickly as a problem, think of it as an excellent tool that just takes a little more practice to learn how to properly use.

Next time!


ToukieToucan

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Originally Posted by ToukieToucan

Ive been trying WBTB + WILD lately and I've bumped into a problem. I'll just describe what happened:

23:00 Go to sleep
05:00 wake up (and get up) for WBTB
05:30 I go in a kind of day dream state where I do see a convincingly real scenery and have a vague sense of consciousness.
05:40 I feel a numbness spread over my body but its not that strong
05:41 I feel a hand on my shoulder and I stay calm, my entire body is numb now
05:42 I realize Im in a close state to dreaming but just see grey and try to make a scenery but it fails and frustrates me.
05:43 I "wake" up (I was in a half conscious state nearly the whole time)

I would like to hear some tips and I'll see if I can just let the grey space become something next time.

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That "grey space" you are experiencing is likely just a visit to NREM. Here are a couple of ways to work with it:

Your first option, and the one I always pick, is to simply relax and enjoy the peaceful pause that floating around in nothingness for a while can be, with the full confidence that REM, and your dream, is just around the corner. If you hold that confidence, and understand that your body is actually asleep and your WILD is pretty much complete, you might be able to avoid frustration and the waking up that often accompanies it.

Or, if you want the dream to get moving, you could try forming the dream, and nudge your mind to get REM started a bit early. It might not seem like there is a lot to grab onto in that grey to form dreams, but you'd be surprised: first, try looking at your hands (sometimes just spotting your hands and noticing that, say, they are not attached to anything, is enough to spur dreaming) and then give them something to do, like hold a flashlight to illuminate the scene that you know is lurking in the grey. Or simply focus on the grey until small shapes form (they eventually will, if you are looking for them) and work those shapes into the makings of a dream. For instance, if you see a small round dot, expand the dot until it becomes a sphere, and then attach meaning (schema) to the sphere by making it, say, a baseball that you are tossing to a friend on an open field. Before you know it, your dreaming mind will have finally switched into gear and will take over scene-processing for you....also, attempting to form a dream kills time so even if you have trouble doing it, you will be occupied with something other than frustration while waiting for your REM dreams to spool up.

Finally, be prepared for a false awakening. FA's have a habit of occurring after NREM pauses, so if you find yourself awake in your room, do a RC and have a careful look around, because you might just be dreaming!


TDHXIII:

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Originally Posted by TDHXIII

Based on this, i don't know if i just wasted my time learning how to WILD-the-classic-way when i favor stuff like DEILD that is much easier to do. Well it's not wasted effort as i learned a bunch of stuff that is useful for DEILDing anyways... So let's see what happens next

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I agree; you did not waste your time at all. DEILD is a form of WILD (you are transitioning from wake to sleep to dream without losing waking-life self-awareness in DEILD, just like WILD), and consequently much of what you need to know to DEILD is also what you needed to know with WILD.

Regardless, though, it looks like DEILD is indeed the optimal LD-route for you. That is a great thing, too, because in my mind DEILD is the easiest of the lot.

Good luck, everybody, with your next dives!

:sageous:

About looking around:
When I entered the grey space it felt like I was conscious and nothing like a dream if I wanted to I could move my real limbs. and if id be to look down id keep seeing nothing.

Next time I'll try to relax and read the forming a dream guide.

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Originally Posted by Sageous

Sydney:



Or maybe you are a slightly different person, physically and psychologically, than you were 3 yrs ago? That's something to consider, I think. There may have been a lot of other things going on with (and within) you 3 yrs ago that allotted a longer time to get back to sleep. Try not to dwell upon how you were then, but rather on how you are now... and, for what it's worth, wasn't your "ability" to not fall asleep a real problem for you back then? ;)

You might consider falling asleep quickly a good thing; I sure do, and sure wish I was so afflicted! Of course the trick, which you surely will learn, is to take advantage of that tendency to sleep, and not let it take advantage of you. Maintaining self-awareness and focus while your body quickly falls asleep can be trying, though, because your body's transition to sleep can be too speedy to consciously track. Here are a couple of suggestions:

The first and foremost is to get ideas like "Maybe I'm just subconsciously 'giving up' at the time when I start my WILD attempts and I don't even know" out of your head, because that only invites (or excuses) giving up.

Next, you might want to find a mantra that is more interesting; maybe one that relates directly to what you want to do in your dream or, conversely, one that sort of shouts at you to pay attention (my fall-back "Here & Now" mantra does that quite well for me, BTW). There is always a counting anchor as well, though, as you know, I don't think that's a great idea because it might do the job of keeping you awake too well.

And, experimenting with staying up for an hour is a good idea as well -- just be careful to keep those thoughts dreamy the whole time, and don't be tempted to use your phone, TV, or computer to pass the time.

tl;dr: instead of seeing falling asleep too quickly as a problem, think of it as an excellent tool that just takes a little more practice to learn how to properly use.

Next time!

:sageous:

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Ahhhh Sageous, amazing replies as usual! ^^

OKAY. I can do this. Falling asleep too easily is not a problem.. it is a challenge worth beating, accomplishing. Yes, I do remember struggling to fall asleep all the time.. and now I'm having the opposite thing happen. XD Weird how that works.

I've never really thought about changing my mantra.. that is a really good idea! Because, "I am dreaming." almost seems too vague, now that I think about it.

Okay, tomorrow night's my WILD dive. I will beat you, unconsciousness! XD

^^ Good luck!

Well, someone blew my attempt today. I got up motionless and with my eyes closed, all ready for a DEILD.. When i realized that what woke me up was someone slamming my room door open to take something from my room. And that's even before i would have naturally woken up. i guess tomorrow then.

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Originally Posted by Sageous

Busy morning!


Kaan:



That's an interesting idea; I have a feeling it might work for you... but keep in mind that REM periods are frequent enough after 6 hrs' sleep or so that the wait for them is not too long (so if the RD alarm doesn't work for you, natural awakenings, with practice, still might).

:sageous:

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Thanks, Sageous.
I do think that I have to continue my experiments on WILD after been awoken from the beginning of a REM period thanks to my Device.
By the way, I gave it another try this morning, the RD did awoken me very well from a REM Dream, but I was to tired to get up, so I tried to WILD without any WBTB and as you guess, I just lost consciousness in about few seconds.
I had then plenty of non-lucid REM Dreams.
It really seams that WBTB is absolutely necessary in my case. (maybe not if I use an external stimuli to keep me a little bit aware when I am likely to loose consciousness fast*)
Yes, the two last hours of sleep seam very rich in REM periods, so with a minimum but long enough WBTB, I guess I could make some interesting progress.

*I also am thinking about trying it without WBTB, like this morning, but with the help of my Gymboss Minimax (fully programmable Vibrating Alarm).
I could program this other additional device to vibrate few times at short (and maybe progressive) intervals (like few minutes) for a certain amount of time while I am losing my consciousness (so basically during N-REM sleep stages).
Thanks to this, just after been awoken from the RD, I could stay close to the boundary of awareness until REM kicks in.
But I am conscious that doing this, I am going a little bit far away from the purpose of this Thread.

Sageous, the NREM space you speak of - is it quite common to beable to still feel a bit on the wake side when in it ? like - is it realy easy tobe fooled into thinking you are not asleep yet when actualy you are truly asleep and in this space?

When i had a nap today i was very aware of the thoughts becoming abstract and a peacefullness become me again etc but i was very much still aware of my body resting on thr couch... Are we realy asleep at this point?

I focused on and around a speck of light and i am not sure what happened after maybe nodded off for a sec...the nap was not long just 20 mins and very refreshed after - but i can see Wild could be very possible if one was able to steer through the NREM carefully :alien:

i wonder if Kaans Gymboss devise could be used in the clasic Wild dive as a kind of anchor?

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Originally Posted by Patience108

i wonder if Kaans Gymboss devise could be used in the clasic Wild dive as a kind of anchor?

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I think so.
So far, I have used it when I was using Galantamine and other stuffs in my WILD attempts.
I used Gymboss as a reminder, so that I knew where I was on my WILD schedule.
When I use Galantamine, My WILD induction lasts about 60 min, and consists in 3 parts that lasts 20 minutes, so I programmed the gymboss to shortly vibrate at h+20min, h+40 min and h+60 min.
Sometimes it brought me back to awareness when I was just loosing it, so that's why I think the answer to your question is probably yes.

Unfortunately the 90% success rate I have at my WILD attempts with LD supplements go down to near zero success when I do it naturally.
So I stopped to use those supplements, as I am here to lean to WILD "naturally" (despite my 30+years of experience in LD) even if I don't exclude the use of technology.

The short vibration can last 1 seconds or more if you want, so I think it can help you to stay aware during N-REM sleep without waking you up too much if you tend to loose consciousness too soon, but as it's all about timing, many tries would be necessary to find the perfect settings.

Thanks :) I am in the process of looking at buzzy things to remind me during the day too as well as at night so I might purchase one ... You would recomend that one then?

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Originally Posted by Patience108

Sageous, the NREM space you speak of - is it quite common to beable to still feel a bit on the wake side when in it ? like - is it realy easy tobe fooled into thinking you are not asleep yet when actualy you are truly asleep and in this space?

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Sure, you might intellectually feel like you are awake during NREM (just as you might during a REM LD or FA), and this is especially true because NREM can seem very similar to the quiet place you were just in while waiting for your WILD to progress.

A simple way to confirm your state might be to move a limb, or, as you noted, feel the weight of your body resting on your couch. I suggest, though, that you allow yourself to be fooled in the other direction:

If you think you may be asleep and experiencing NREM, go with the feeling. That self-assurance that you have fallen asleep can help you hold your focus and maintain your WILD without being concerned (and distracted) about whether you are asleep or not yet. You will, after all, be asleep in a few minutes anyway; why not get a jump on the process by assuming that you already have begun to sleep, and just are in some NREM? This may seem a bit dishonest or absurd, but the whole point of WILD is to fool your body into thinking you have gone to sleep along with it, so this bit of absurd dishonesty might just fit right into the program!

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When i had a nap today i was very aware of the thoughts becoming abstract and a peacefullness become me again etc but i was very much still aware of my body resting on thr couch... Are we realy asleep at this point?

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Nope, we are not really asleep.

If you can still feel your body, you are still at least somewhat awake. But, again, try not to let that let that sensation, or the intellectual knowledge that you must still be on the fence between wakefulness and sleep, interfere with with those abstract thoughts or peaceful feelings. This is because those thoughts and feelings are aiming you in the direction of sleep -- and the dream -- while thoughts about how you might still be awake are just obstacles to a successful WILD (and a successful nap, for that matter).

Also, I know this was addressed to Kaan, but:

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Thanks I am in the process of looking at buzzy things to remind me during the day too as well as at night so I might purchase one ... You would recomend that one then?

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At Kaan's suggestion on another thread, I bought myself a Gymboss Minimax, and highly recommend it. Though I see it more as a great tool for daytime work (specifically to remind you to do RC's, RRC's, or to think about dreaming in general), and I highly recommend you first learn to set your own anchors without mechanical help, I can see how this device could be helpful to encourage both DILDs and WILDs during the attempts

[As a funny aside: I rarely use my Gymboss because I consistently forget to pick it up and turn it on... they should sell a device that reminds you to use your reminder device, I suppose!]

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Originally Posted by Patience108

Thanks :) I am in the process of looking at buzzy things to remind me during the day too as well as at night so I might purchase one ... You would recomend that one then?

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Be sure to buy the Gymboss Minimax not the gymboss
The Minimax version is a lot more customizable, you can set a series of many different intervals in a row, for exemple:
3x25min, 2x5min10, 5x10min07, 1x68min and so on in a single series that you can save in a memory of the device.

As sageous said, it is the perfect tool for daytime RC, but you can use it the way you want.
For a WILD use, it does not replace classic anchors like mantra or anything else, but it can help to prevent you from loosing consciousness too fast I presume.
It can also be used for DEILD purpose, and to induce FA and programmed Real arousal.
I presume it can induce DILD if you are used to do RC in your daytime and if you wear it during REM sleep.

Thanks - in the case mentioned above if I have seemed to have lost contact with my body and couch and feel as if without a body floating in space - is there a good likelihood I am in the NREM space and thus asleep ...and just need to keep self awareness and memory intact using anchors such as mantra or simply observing it all as a whole?

And cheers for tip off on buzzy gadget:biggrin:

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Originally Posted by Patience108

Thanks - in the case mentioned above if I have seemed to have lost contact with my body and couch and feel as if without a body floating in space - is there a good likelihood I am in the NREM space and thus asleep ...and just need to keep self awareness and memory intact using anchors such as mantra or simply observing it all as a whole?

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Yes and yes.

Yes, there is not just a likelihood that you are asleep in that situation, but you can be assured that your body has fallen asleep.

And yes, you can either keep up with your WILD dive activities (like holding to your mantra) until the dream begins, or you can observe (and enjoy, and participate in) your time in NREM, which is essentially lucid dreaming anyway, with the confidence that a REM dream will form soon... and, thirdly, you can go ahead and try forming a dream if you cannot wait for things to get started.

So this morning I gave it a try.
00h30 bed time.
06h00 Put the Rem-Dreamer with 60min delay so that it stays in stand bye for one hour before it scans my REM
07hxx awoken from a dream by the Dream Alarm of the Rem-Dreamer.
I try a WBTB but stay only few seconds seated on my bed, remembering that I wanted to test the Gymboss without WBTB.
So I lie on my right side and turned the gymboss ON, clipped to my pyjama.
The gymboss program was something like this
2min, 3min, 4min, 5min, 6min
Alarm was a vibration lasting 1 second.

I tried this whole program several times before changing the setting, without success but my impressions are:
The vibrations were a little bit too hard and unpleasant.
I guess it brought some kind of stress that Delayed the sleep onset.
But the positive thing is that at some point, when the delay between 2 vibrations was longer, I felt that the dream formation was at this very beginning, I couldn't explain how I know this cause there was no Dream Imagery yet but I just felt that the dream process was forming.
If I had been more relaxed and perfectly immobile at this point, I am rather certain than I would have entered the dream consciously
Thing is .. it's like you only have one chance or two, and if you miss your blow , you finish by waking up for good.

That's what happened, I made several tries, which lasted about one hour or less, I was close to the goal, but since I missed the (maybe) Only WILD window, the game was over.
The anchor I used was some mantras, but I think I could use the will to stay immobile as another kind of anchor.

During this "one hour or less", I tried another setting and changed the vibration mode for the beeping mode.

As I sleep with hear plugs, I chose the stronger beep (there is one strong and on weak beep)
this time the gymboss was on my night table, close to me, if I lie on my right side.

I found that the beeping mode was more accurate and I will use it for my next attempts.
(vibrations could be ok too, but somewhere else, like on the ankles).
My next intervals setting will probably be:
2min, 3min, 4min, 5min, 6min, 7min, 8min.
this 35min program with longer and longer intervals should be long and gentle enough to accompany me to my dreams.
I hope.

Nothing special to report.

Friday and Thursday's attempts couldn't be done due to sleep interruptions and having to do stuff early in the morning. I should be able to continue my attempts starting back on Saturday. As for my overall progress, my 2-month practice for a lucid dreaming technique is almost over. I should be done by the next time i succeed at DEILD, after that i will be moving onto dream control.. I only need to DEILD one more time successfully.

I have gotten almost all the steps for DEILD down, and now i only need to do it on the spot. I can wake up naturally and stay still with my eyes closed. That's 80% of the work. The only thing that remains, is to wait until i either enter a dream or go through some pre-dream stages. This should be it..

Hopefully i'll be back with success reports. It's almost time for my results to show up..

Second attempt with my Rem-Dreamer + Gymboss minimax.
The RD successfully awoken me from a REM Dream at about h+7.
The beep of the Gymboss didn't do the job as I didn't hear it (was already asleep).
Another try with vibrations gave me a FA (or several FAs) where I dreamed that I was manipulating the menu of the Gymboss.

Details here: http://www.dreamviews.com/lucid-aids...ml#post2164524

Wonderfull Sageous - I have Success to report !

Got a super good nights sleep the night before so I was reving myself up a bit yesterday that it could be "THE " night - so I planned a wbtb - did lots of mantras yesterday and before bed too - I started to imagine all sorts of extra bits during my time before bed too like - writing this successful email to you :)! Also adding to my mantra that my DC"s let me know I am dreaming and I that notice the signs etc ( coz I have been getting a lot of close encounters with DC"s almost pointing out that i am dreaming but me not getting it - missed DILDS)

Went to bed 9pm and sat for about 20 mins thinking about these things and saying Mantra - Building intention + expectation.

Slept well till 12,00 - woke and recorded dream and went to sleep with Mantra.
Woke at 2.30 am Wide awake I lay in bed eyes closed and super awake - I started doing Mantra but for about 15 mins then got up for wbtb. Turned a low light on and sat in a chair - relaxing, saying Mantra with some visualisation ; unpolished but non the less with some clarity - and keeping momentum going knowing I was going:) to succeed and write email today ;)

Laid down at 4am - earplugs, cushions, fan - darkness. Did 61 points slowly a couple of times.

First time in the dream i was speaking with someone and started noticing i felt funny- my face was super weird feeling and I couldn't carry on the conversation for feeling totally strange - it wasn't till I started waking up that I realised I had gotten to the dream and the strange feelings were part of it ... I felt confident tho that if I laid still I could still be in - so did just that and found my self Lucid in a wonderful room full of all sorts of things - busy with colours and fancyfull things- I wondered around and then remembered I had wanted to shout something out - but when i tried to open my mouth I woke up feeling my actual mouth trying to speak... I laid still once more ... then a little while later I was in the dream again -

Yes! I was in what seemed to be a similar place, I went around feeling great and felt myself rising into the air "wow " I felt myself sitting on the shoulders of a giant rabbit/cat all fury we walked around - I saw a mirror and remember it was something I wanted to do so I said to the creature below me - "lets go through the mirror "and we did but when we arrived through we stood in black space - I woke and felt my body clearly again and the fan, I was in bed - I held still again and bounced into the dream once more - a similar place but not the same. I went outside and saw a wild version of my mother hanging up clothes on a line. I asked her if she could tell me something important about myself ; something I very much need to understand. She began talking about an apple and its core , going into great detail about the significance of each - I asked if she could make it more simple for me. She said its about a Tibetan Saint and his disciple - Oh I said as I was trying to make sense of what she was saying - I woke up again. This time I knew it was late in the morning so I checked the time - it was 6.50 my wake up time

Hooray :D thanks to you and some perseverance - I am still in the game
oh yes - were these WILDS? The noise was minimal but I think i went seamlessly from bed to dream?

^^ That's great news, Patience, thanks for sharing! Given your focus and enthusiasm, I'm not surprised at all, either; sometimes that sort of perseverance is all you need!

From what you wrote, I'm not totally sure if your first entry into the LD was WILD: because you seemed to have just found yourself there, it could have been a DILD. The noise experienced during a WILD can certainly be minimal (I often get none at all), but that feeling of going "seamlessly from bed to dream" might indicate that you drifted off somewhere along the way and -- thanks to all that prep work and enthusiasm -- became lucid through DILD (but in the end who cares, right? Lucid is lucid!). However:

That you indicate that there was no feeling of a dream going on as you "awoke," though, might also indicate that a WILD transition did occur... so maybe it's okay to check this off as a WILD. But the sketchy nature of your entry into the dream does not matter today, though, because after that you then proceeded to do not one but two DEILD's; so, since DEILD is a form of WILD, we can definitely say that successful WILDs happened here regardless of how things began.

Nice work!

Okay, so I stayed up for an hour during WBTB. And yes, I was able to stay aware for an hour! (I thought my alarm was about to go off, so I moved.. and it had only been an hour) But only, I think, because I had hyper-focus on my mantra, which miiighhht have hindered my ability to fall asleep.
And so now, I feel I should get to a happy medium. I'll decrease it to 45 minutes tonight, focus intently on my mantra, and I'll let you know what happens in the morning!

Oh, and Sageous.. does it matter towards your body how long you stay up during your WBTB? I know it wakens your mind, but does it decrease your ability to fall asleep faster? Say, if you stayed up for an hour vs. 30 minutes, would your body take longer to "fall asleep" after staying up for an hour than 30 minutes?
Please tell me if that doesn't make sense. ^^'

I was unable to stay still for today's attempt for some reason. I think it has to do with how my intention wasn't very strong. In this case i might consider setting up an alarm for the sole purpose of making my intent strong before i actually wake up naturally.

Since this is happening, i thought it over once more and i got to the conclusion that i should incorporate FILD into my DEILD. This way, if i move, i can switch over to FILD instead of frustrating over DEILD. With this two-layered approach, i can highten my success chances much more since i don't have to make a big deal out of moving. Let's see what happens next time.

EDIT
Well, this is really getting annoying. Every time i try to do this, something interrupts me. One day i have to wake up early, the other day i wake up with my body itching me intensely.. I will keep my focus on WILD for now, i have gotten so close to pulling one off.

This is an old bad habit of mine, that is switching over to different techniques suddenly.. I have practiced for WILD, and i should keep it that way. As for DEILD+FILD working a few days ago, it's more likely to be luck other than actual skill that made it work. I took a long time understanding how to WILD, and i get it all.. I just need to polish up a decent relax/clear mind technique and chances are i will be able to do it successfully.

To recap, i was practicing WILD, i recognized the importance of relaxing and clearing my mind for success. I succeeded a few times and reached REM-Atonia using that method then for some reason i tried DEILD+FILD and they worked by luck.

Logically thinking, i was obviously nearing success with those attempts that only failed after i reached the pre-dream state. The method is quite tricky but i can't stop at something so minor. I'm going back to where i left off from now on, and i'm preparing for a nap attempt after a few hours.

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Originally Posted by Sydney

Okay, so I stayed up for an hour during WBTB. And yes, I was able to stay aware for an hour! (I thought my alarm was about to go off, so I moved.. and it had only been an hour) But only, I think, because I had hyper-focus on my mantra, which miiighhht have hindered my ability to fall asleep.
And so now, I feel I should get to a happy medium. I'll decrease it to 45 minutes tonight, focus intently on my mantra, and I'll let you know what happens in the morning!

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Sounds like a good try, and a good plan for the next try, Sydney!

One thought, though: if possible, it might be a good idea to try your WILD's on days when there are no concerns about your alarm going off, if only so you have one less distraction to think about (or, in this case, react to).

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Oh, and Sageous.. does it matter towards your body how long you stay up during your WBTB? I know i wakens your mind, but does it decrease your ability to fall asleep faster? Say, if you stayed up for an hour vs. 30 minutes, would your body take longer to "fall asleep" after staying up for an hour than 30 minutes?

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I think that if you keep your WBTB to less than 1.5-2hrs, keep your thoughts dreamy, and keep your activities to a minimum, your body won't care at all, and will go to sleep as well as it ever can.

So I forgot to set my WBTB alarm last night. T-T I'm going to try again tomorrow night, though!

4:30 hours of sleep. Get up. Let the dogs out. pay attention to my surroundings, get about 15 min in. Read the section in EWOLD on Schemas. Lay down on my back. Do a couple of Isolated stretches. SSILD a bit to get trancy. Start up with my mantra, "Tonight I meet my Dream Guide." after a few minutes my hands get heavy and I start to hear noise. I hear my daughter say "I want it Da Da". She sleeps in the room with me so i can't tell if this is real or not. I get up to check on her and she's asleep in her bed. I RC a few times but I'm awake. I lay down on my side and give up the attempt.