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Though you shouldn't have changed position, it looks to me like this was a WILD. The imagery you describe was to me definitely a dream and not HI, because you would normally be hard-pressed to produce a HI dream character of yourself. Also, since you seem to have stayed "awake" throughout, this was not DILD.
Nice work, and thanks for sharing a very entertaining dream!
HELP PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
I can't seem to enter Hypnagogia state.
I know you have to be relaxed ect. but it doesn't work. HELP
You're going to hate this answer, Hobo...
Then don't enter a "Hypnagogia" state. Hypnaagogic Imagery is just so much noise on the way to lucid dreaming. If you've been blessed with a natural ability to ignore or miss HI, than enjoy your advantage and move on! Yes, you won't therefore be able to use HI to help create the dream schema, but there are certainly other ways to do that ... Press on!
... Same goes for "SP" and vibrations, BTW. It's all just noise, and not stages you must visit; don't elevate any of it above your true goal of awareness in a dream!
I've been debating lately whether laying on my back is really the best position for WILDing. I tend to get to a point where I either get incredibly uncomfortable or where I am comfortable but for one reason or another can't get anywhere near the required relaxation level to sleep. I just lay there with drifting thoughts, possibly slight sleep paralysis.
Though, I've tried laying on my side and I tend to be overly comfortable and just fall asleep during my attempts.
Any advice?
Keep trying to lay on your back. I hate it too, but in my experience it is by far the best position for WILD -- especially if you can hold still and manage to fall asleep! I've found also that it works best if I turn my head to the right (controls snoring). You also might want to try doing the "61 Points" relaxation technique (it's in EWOLD), if you're not already. That helps get past the discomfort.
Then, if lying on your back fails, try your side where you're comfortable, and spend a good deal of time learning to stay awake in spite of the natural comfort ... It can be done.
Yea, I think I remember reading somewhere that it's easier to enter sleep paralysis while laying on your back too. Not sure if there's any truth in that though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
Looks like I'll stick with it and try the 61-point relaxation technique and the head turning as you suggested then!
Interesting experience this morning, I tried the head turned to the side to begin with and had a lot of ridiculously vivid HI. At one point the world formed into a 3D space around me and I stood up out of bed, chasing this moth around trying to kill it. In fact I believe it could have been a dream rather than HI, but I wasn't fully inside of it, I could still feel my waking body laying in bed even though I was somewhat getting lost in the scene that I was experiencing.
I assume if I didn't get so lost in it and managed to pull myself into the dream properly, it would have been a successful WILD?
^^ Pretty cool stuff, RareCola!
Yeah, that moth chasing event was likely the beginnings of a dream, and not HI, though you were still slightly lucid ... so yes, had you held it together, you likely could have fallen fully asleep (full disconnect from your physical body) and, still aware, continued on into a more elaborate dream. This would have been the time to summon your memory and review your intentions, both to form that more elaborate dream and to reinforce your self-awareness in the face of all this odd "halfway stuff."
So, as they say: Next time!
Okay, I had a weird experience. I was settled down to try out WILD, was fully relaxed (I can just relax all my muscles easily at will), and got to the stage where I was getting the "Illogical Images". I decided it would be a good idea to make myself a scene at this point, denoting me going into a WILD, so I imagined myself falling down a massive hole to come to the bottom - a cave named WILD. I got to a cave halfway down the hole though, and it was spherical. There was an imp there who asked me if I wanted to come down now. I said, "Yeah, okay then." I was floating at this point, so I took his hand and came to the ground.
When this happened, I felt a funny feeling throughout my body, from my feet up. It was like I was losing sense of my body, like a tingling all the way up - as if it was slipping away from me. Any ideas what it is?
Also, when it happened, I focused on it too much and came out of the state I was in, having to start again. This is my 2nd attempt at WILD, how do I stop myself from focusing too much on things and just sit there passively, because I can't seem to hold onto it.
It seems to me that, even though a dream had started, your physical body hadn't quite finished its routine of falling asleep yet; you likely just experienced a bit of the "noise" that accompanies those functions.Quote:
Originally Posted by realdealmagic
You stop yourself by not focusing on those things!Quote:
Also, when it happened, I focused on it too much and came out of the state I was in, having to start again. This is my 2nd attempt at WILD, how do I stop myself from focusing too much on things and just sit there passively, because I can't seem to hold onto it.
Seriously, if you can develop a mindset that understands, without a doubt, that all this stuff -- HI, vibrations, SP, even that tingling you felt -- doesn't matter and can easily be ignored, you might find yourself less inclined to focus on them. And nobody said you have to be passive while you "wait." You can occupy your mind with your mantra, or a review of expectations, or even with attempts to form a dream, given how far along you were ... no need to be passive!
Thanks for sharing!
i dont do any mantras or breathing exercises. i honestly started striving for LD at 4am this morning. i have tried 5 times through out the day. my fourth attempt was the closest, i believe.
i always start by getting comfortable & breathing normal. i then focus on my appendages. i try to ease the stress out of my muscles.
once that is done, i start imagining situations i would like to dream about (i.e, my future children or speaking with my grandfather) eventually, i will feel the spins & REM (i find that repeating lyrics to my favorite band make this go faster. no idea why) but as the spins & REM increase in speed, so does my heartbeat.
i have only achieved this once so that's the end of my WILD experience for now.
Well, last night I think I got pretty close. I layed down to WILD after my WBTB. I did the flex-freeze exercise (you hold certain body parts and release at certain times to relieve stress), and then I did some form of the 61-point technique. (I say "some" form because I went out on a limb and did it, I didn't memorize the point and where they were, I just knew general areas) Once I finished, I began reciting my mantra. After a while of this, my back and hips began to ache. (I was laying on my back with my head slightly tilted to the right) The ache started out as being dull, but over time it got stronger and stronger, to the point where I couldn't bear it anymore. I rolled over and then fell asleep.
Any thoughts on what to do about that ache?
Hi takeitupanotch!Quote:
Originally Posted by takeitupanotch
Though your head might be in the right place, if you really are just one day into you LD'ing career, you might want to check out some tutorials on DILD or MILD, which are much easier than WILD ... just a thought.
Advance apologies if I misunderstood!
You might try changing your posture, like maybe lying on your left side if you're more comfortable holding it for a long stretch; this is especially true if lying on the back is causing your ache!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydney
If lying on your back is already the best choice for you, then (and forgive me if I've already suggested this) when an ache starts taking over the session, the best bet might be to get up again, walk around a bit and try to shake off the ache. If you can shake it off, then do so and try again; if the ache is with you for the night, then sigh quietly, maybe take an aspirin, and look forward to attempting WILD another day.
Note to self: attempting WILDs while it's 90ºF and I have a bug bite on my arm which won't stop itching is the most frustrating experience.
^^ And not too terribly productive, I'd imagine ;)
While taking a nap this afternoon, I realised something I haven't been integrating in my WILD attempts lately and I think that's why I've been failing... deep breathing along with the visualisations.
^^ That's a good thing to incorporate, I think.
You might be better off simply focusing on your natural breath, though. Notice without comment as you inhale and exhale. I even tend to attach my mantras to my normal breathing.
Why normal, and not deep breathing? This is my opinion, but I think if you focus too much on breath, especially to the point of consistently altering it, you might actually be threatening your normal progression to sleep. Why? Because your body must activate systems to oblige your request to change the pattern of breath it has programmed for sleep, and those activations might include your reticular system, if only because you must be very attentive to maintain altered breath.
I have a feeling that the real reason that many meditation gurus use deep breath isn't so much the deep and meaningful reasons they profess, but as another hedge to accidentally falling asleep!
Again, just a thought. I could be wrong.
The other night when I went down for bed. I wanted to sort of practice my new found manta and experiment with the forming of the HI like you suggested. I got really strong vivid dream snippets with sound. Is that just really strong HI? One was almost like a full dream but I didn't really feel like I was in it.
I got this even more so when I actually tempted WILD this morning. I found that I would get into a dream like sequence and bounce back to myself in bed. I found it difficult to keep my mantra in my consciousness and enter sleep at the same time. The idea I got was like trying to partition my mind so that I could preserve my consciousnesses in one part while the rest of me dreams. So I would just bounce back and fourth, trying to split but couldn't.
And by the way I thought that I had WILD before but you taught me it as only DEILD. And I though SP was a prereq but I can see now it is not. Interesting.
Anyway I finally gave up because my pregnant wife would not stop tossing and turning every 5 minutes. Gaaaahhh! :P
Suggestion? Ideas?
From what you wrote, it seems to me that your dream was trying to form. The trick with using HI to form a dream, I think, is remembering to leave the HI behind and start thinking in terms of "this being a dream." You can start thinking this way the moment you start working the HI into a dream; I guess I should have mentioned that earlier -- sorry!Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanous
I'm thinking that some part of you was telling you here that it might not be a good idea to attempt to partition your mind; one of your parts probably got confused, so your dreaming system kept hitting its reset button. WILD (and LD'ing in general) is a mentally holistic experience; I think it might work best if you let your consciousness simply behave as it always does in waking-life, and focusing less on a thing called consciousness (which is what happens if you compartmentalize it), and more on the complete presence of "You" as you make the dive. Remember that your consciousness must be present in dreams -- even NLD's, so to attempt to keep it separate likely will not work, and only confuse. Did I just say the same thing twice? I think I did...Quote:
I got this even more so when I actually tempted WILD this morning. I found that I would get into a dream like sequence and bounce back to myself in bed. I found it difficult to keep my mantra in my consciousness and enter sleep at the same time. The idea I got was like trying to partition my mind so that I could preserve my consciousnesses in one part while the rest of me dreams. So I would just bounce back and fourth, trying to split but couldn't.
Cool! That's what I was hoping for -- glad it clicked. Oh, and since it's my current choice for LD'ing, there's no such thing as "only DEILD." ;) Oh, and since DEILD is a form of WILD, you actually were doing WILD's before.Quote:
And by the way I thought that I had WILD before but you taught me it as only DEILD. And I though SP was a prereq but I can see now it is not. Interesting.
Since pregnant wives always have priority, you might want to set up a cot in another room for your WILD attempts!Quote:
Anyway I finally gave up because my pregnant wife would not stop tossing and turning every 5 minutes. Gaaaahhh! :P
Oh maybe I missed that. Makes sense.Quote:
From what you wrote, it seems to me that your dream was trying to form. The trick with using HI to form a dream, I think, is remembering to leave the HI behind and start thinking in terms of "this being a dream." You can start thinking this way the moment you start working the HI into a dream; I guess I should have mentioned that earlier -- sorry!
I guess I had the wrong idea. I think maybe this area of the dive is the point were the self-awareness practices become useful. Right?Quote:
I'm thinking that some part of you was telling you here that it might not be a good idea to attempt to partition your mind; one of your parts probably got confused, so your dreaming system kept hitting its reset button. WILD (and LD'ing in general) is a mentally holistic experience; I think it might work best if you let your consciousness simply behave as it always does in waking-life, and focusing less on a thing called consciousness (which is what happens if you compartmentalize it), and more on the complete presence of "You" as you make the dive. Remember that your consciousness must be present in dreams -- even NLD's, so to attempt to keep it separate likely will not work, and only confuse. Did I just say the same thing twice? I think I did...
Yeah. Your right DEILDs can be amazing too. And I suppose a cousin to WILD.Quote:
Cool! That's what I was hoping for -- glad it clicked. Oh, and since it's my current choice for LD'ing, there's no such thing as "only DEILD." Oh, and since DEILD is a form of WILD, you actually were doing WILD's before.
The recliner will be the spot. I go there when I get Restless Legs. It's a good place. I don't know if it's a good habit but something about it keeps me from sleeping too heavily and seems to help me LD. I secretly call it my DEILD chair LOL.Quote:
Since pregnant wives always have priority, you might want to set up a cot in another room for your WILD attempts!
Right ... Though it doesn't hurt to have self-awareness in hand throughout the dive!Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanous
:)Quote:
The recliner will be the spot. I go there when I get Restless Legs. It's a good place. I don't know if it's a good habit but something about it keeps me from sleeping too heavily and seems to help me LD. I secretly call it my DEILD chair LOL.
if your goal is to fall asleep while keeping slight awareness then why do people say after so and so amount of time they give up and go back to sleep. Shouldnt failed attempts result in simply falling asleep. Thats just not what im understanding.
Yes, many a failed attempt results in falling asleep without waking awareness present. That I think is the most common form of WILD failure (though DILD's often come from then, so it's not a total failure!). But many attempts also fail because waking awareness, rather than sleep, breaks the balance, and you realize (or decide) that your body has no interest in falling asleep just now.Quote:
Originally Posted by xpin2winx
This is often the case when during a WILD attempt you spend too much time focusing attention on things that don't matter, like SP or vibrations, and this focus forces your brain to stay alert as it (you) mind the "threats" circling you. And of course our innate physiology prevents us from falling asleep when a threat is nearby.
One other quick clarification: In your post you say that "your goal is to fall asleep while keeping slight awareness." This I think is incorrect. In fact, in WILD you are attempting to fall asleep while keeping all of your waking awareness. It won't work, and won't become a LD, if you're not all there! This had nothing to do with your question, but I felt a need to clarify.
I hope that made sense. If not, ask again and I'll give it another shot!
I'm still having issues with getting the balance right, I think this is my main issue now. I'm usually too far on either end of the scale, where I will not be able to go to sleep at all, or I will be too relaxed and drift off to sleep. Any tips to help balance it out more?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous