What happened? Post Your WILD Attempts, Good or Bad, Here

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Originally Posted by Sageous

Yes, many a failed attempt results in falling asleep without waking awareness present. That I think is the most common form of WILD failure (though DILD's often come from then, so it's not a total failure!). But many attempts also fail because waking awareness, rather than sleep, breaks the balance, and you realize (or decide) that your body has no interest in falling asleep just now.

This is often the case when during a WILD attempt you spend too much time focusing attention on things that don't matter, like SP or vibrations, and this focus forces your brain to stay alert as it (you) mind the "threats" circling you. And of course our innate physiology prevents us from falling asleep when a threat is nearby.

One other quick clarification: In your post you say that "your goal is to fall asleep while keeping slight awareness." This I think is incorrect. In fact, in WILD you are attempting to fall asleep while keeping all of your waking awareness. It won't work, and won't become a LD, if you're not all there! This had nothing to do with your question, but I felt a need to clarify.

I hope that made sense. If not, ask again and I'll give it another shot!

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Thats the problem, How do you fall asleep keeping all your awareness? I mean is this like Jeff's guide where you lay motionless until something happens but your just concentrating on counting. Does that even work anyway. Does laying still for 30 minutes even cause sleep paralysis. Because it seems like theres two sides on this forum that debate over WILD techniques.

Half the guides on here just say remain motionless and clear your mind by counting to 100 over and over again until you reach a certain stage. I can easily do that but it seems impossible for me to do what everyone else is saying like passively keep track of something while im trying to fall asleep.

^^ I think I understand what's going on now...

Xpin2winx:

I'm not sure you noticed, but this thread is actually part of my larger DVA course on WILD. I think if you go back and review my course, The WILD According to Sageous, you'll find answers to your questions, and maybe be a little less confused by all this.

I highly recommend you check it out!

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In fact, in WILD you are attempting to fall asleep while keeping all of your waking awareness. It won't work, and won't become a LD, if you're not all there! This had nothing to do with your question, but I felt a need to clarify.

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Well that helped me! :D

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I'm still having issues with getting the balance right, I think this is my main issue now. I'm usually too far on either end of the scale, where I will not be able to go to sleep at all, or I will be too relaxed and drift off to sleep. Any tips to help balance it out more?

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I was wondering same RC... Sageous?

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Originally Posted by Xanous

Well that helped me! :D

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Well I'm glad someone appreciated it!

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I was wondering same RC... Sageous?

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I'm not sure I understand the question, but if you want to know where the balance is between sleep and waking in WILD, well, I could chicken out and say, "Heyl, that's up to you," which is also probably the correct answer.

Or, I could mention that in WILD, and in truth, there is no balance.

Why? Because in WILD you're supposed to be corralling your waking life awareness through the initial stages of sleep, and doing so with your waking awareness intact. In a sense, your waking awareness is only an onlooker while your body goes about the journey into sleep that you would have been doing anyway.

There is no balance; as far as your physical body is concerned, the scale should be tipping fully in its direction throughout the dive. The only "imbalance" is the presence of your awareness, and with practice you can position that at the periphery of "the action" without really disturbing the natural progression of sleep.

In other words, if you were to start concerning yourself about "balance," then you stand an excellent chance of creating an imbalance based on whatever is most important to you at the moment (which, from what I've seen, is ironically not falling asleep but "enduring" all the "noise, which rarely leads to sleep).

So the real trick here is to both have excellent timing for your WILD -- meaning that you're doing it at a time when your body is interested in going to sleep, and your mental prep is sound enough to preserve your waking awareness throughout that process -- and understand that in truth there is no balance: the whole deal is about witnessing your self falling asleep, without making any bargains in the process.

I hope that made sense; if not, let me know ... Oh. and if I totally misinterpreted your question, let me know that as well!

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Originally Posted by Sageous

Well I'm glad someone appreciated it!



I'm not sure I understand the question, but if you want to know where the balance is between sleep and waking in WILD, well, I could chicken out and say, "Heyl, that's up to you," which is also probably the correct answer.

Or, I could mention that in WILD, and in truth, there is no balance.

Why? Because in WILD you're supposed to be corralling your waking life awareness through the initial stages of sleep, and doing so with your waking awareness intact. In a sense, your waking awareness is only an onlooker while your body goes about the journey into sleep that you would have been doing anyway.

There is no balance; as far as your physical body is concerned, the scale should be tipping fully in its direction throughout the dive. The only "imbalance" is the presence of your awareness, and with practice you can position that at the periphery of "the action" without really disturbing the natural progression of sleep.

In other words, if you were to start concerning yourself about "balance," then you stand an excellent chance of creating an imbalance based on whatever is most important to you at the moment (which, from what I've seen, is ironically not falling asleep but "enduring" all the "noise, which rarely leads to sleep).

So the real trick here is to both have excellent timing for your WILD -- meaning that you're doing it at a time when your body is interested in going to sleep, and your mental prep is sound enough to preserve your waking awareness throughout that process -- and understand that in truth there is no balance: the whole deal is about witnessing your self falling asleep, without making any bargains in the process.

I hope that made sense; if not, let me know ... Oh. and if I totally misinterpreted your question, let me know that as well!

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I think this is the best description I've heard! Thanks a lot for explaining.

hey sageous, i got really close to another DEILD today but just halted at the intense vibration/auditory hallucination stage. For some reason i keep thinking of really hot girls or pornstars. Im trying to not think about that anymore lol. Especially since the only reason i failed this because when i started thinking about being in a room with a girl, i started to hear a girl laughing and that pretty much jolted me back to reality. The problem im having is that it seems i only have the oppurtunity to DEILD once, and if i miss that chance i cant achieve another one. So basically what im saying is that i failed my first attempt this morning because i got startled by a girl laughing, then i fell asleep and managed to attempt DEILD a couple more times. The vibrations/auditory hallucinations never came and i had an extreme urge to swallow so i just gave in. This happened to me the first day i reached the vibration stage. I woke up a couple more times but just never managed to get back to the transition stages.

^^ You didn't read the class, did you?

Had you done so, you would have seen that the "noise," -- vibrations, etc -- is not a stage, but a distraction, and you should do what you can to ignore them. But that aside...

Hypnagogic Imagery (HI) and "noise" really shouldn't be present in any meaningful way during DEILD; I have a feeling that that girl's laughter might have been your next dream forming, and, had you stuck with the DEILD, you likely would have been in the dream you were expecting, perhaps with hot girls and pornstars included!

Try not to look for popular DV forum distractions like vibrations and hallucinations; they are not a stage, might never come and, if they do, might serve only to distract. And if you're doing DEILD, consider a woman's voice a bit of dream, and follow it fearlessly into that dream rather than waking.

Again, I suggest you look at my course. You seem to be "right there" with this stuff, so its content might be helpful.

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Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ You didn't read the class, did you?

Had you done so, you would have seen that the "noise," -- vibrations, etc -- is not a stage, but a distraction, and you should do what you can to ignore them. But that aside...

Hypnagogic Imagery (HI) and "noise" really shouldn't be present in any meaningful way during DEILD; I have a feeling that that girl's laughter might have been your next dream forming, and, had you stuck with the DEILD, you likely would have been in the dream you were expecting, perhaps with hot girls and pornstars included!

Try not to look for popular DV forum distractions like vibrations and hallucinations; they are not a stage, might never come and, if they do, might serve only to distract. And if you're doing DEILD, consider a woman's voice a bit of dream, and follow it fearlessly into that dream rather than waking.

Again, I suggest you look at my course. You seem to be "right there" with this stuff, so its content might be helpful.

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i read your entire course! I know you said SP is just noise but most if not every guide says that DEILDs should happen within minutes. The times i reach the vibrations/auditory hallucinations they come immediately following the dream. The other times when they dont happen, im just laying motionless on my bed for 5 minutes with nothing happening!

^^ Well thanks for reading the course; sorry about that!

At the risk of sounding a bit like a LD'ing snob, most of the guides get a lot of this stuff very wrong, especially in terms of timing and what really matters. Of course that is my opinion, but if you're experiencing things outside the guides' predictions or, worse, are trashing your attempts because someone told you it wasn't supposed to work this way, you might consider questioning the wisdom of the guides.

Now: Yes DEILD's are indeed immediate (I think I said that, too). No question. A proper DEILD can actually happen without your ever waking up, which I suppose is fast indeed. What I was pointing out was that HI and other "noise" tends to be absent during DEILD, because you have already passed through all the phases that bring them on earlier in the night. The only exception to this being actual SP, I think, though you might not notice it because you're trying to hold still in DEILD anyway.

So again, HI and noise shouldn't be present during DEILD, thought there are exceptions to every rule. And yes, if five minutes are passing during your DEILD attempt, you might very well have fully woken up and

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Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ Well thanks for reading the course; sorry about that!

At the risk of sounding a bit like a LD'ing snob, most of the guides get a lot of this stuff very wrong, especially in terms of timing and what really matters. Of course that is my opinion, but if you're experiencing things outside the guides' predictions or, worse, are trashing your attempts because someone told you it wasn't supposed to work this way, you might consider questioning the wisdom of the guides.

Now: Yes DEILD's are indeed immediate (I think I said that, too). No question. A proper DEILD can actually happen without your ever waking up, which I suppose is fast indeed. What I was pointing out was that HI and other "noise" tends to be absent during DEILD, because you have already passed through all the phases that bring them on earlier in the night. The only exception to this being actual SP, I think, though you might not notice it because you're trying to hold still in DEILD anyway.

So again, HI and noise shouldn't be present during DEILD, thought there are exceptions to every rule. And yes, if five minutes are passing during your DEILD attempt, though, you might very well have fully woken up and somehow left DEILD behind and restarted a WILD process. I suppose that could happen. So I guess what I'd do if that much time passes and "noise" does occur is revert back to my WILD routine (or just get up, have a glass of water, and start the whole process over again).

I hope that helped!

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yes thanks! ill havent had time to attempt your wild guide because i managed to almost DEILD. IF i fail Deild tonight, im gonna try to wild

I slept for a good 4-5 hours, woke up from the alarm, didn't recall any dreams though (that's weird...usually I can write a mini-novel if I time the sleeping period right, but I guess it's because I spent 1-2 days sitting while someone drove me from New York to Texas again, which messed up my sleeping schedule A LOT)

Anyway, I stayed up for an hour or so for the WBTB, but I wasn't able to sustain awareness, will try again though, but it's already 9:17AM. I feel awake already, but I don't know....*sigh*

^^ I'll bet we'll hear some more positive news from you after your sleep cycles have finally reset from your trip, Linkzaelda! ;)

This morning I halfheartedly attempted WILD. I saw the HI turn in a full dream but unfortunately I didn't hold my awareness to be lucid. I didn't think that would be possible to WILD non-lucid. Is it? But I guess it works like any other daydream or wondering thoughts. I'm not sure what to think. But at least I got a feel for what to expect. I'm just having difficulty holding awareness very long.

Every step helps, of course, but maybe some more mental prep is needed, Xanous, so next time you'll be whole-heartedly ready to WILD? ;)

And you're correct, by definition it is impossible to WILD non-lucidly ... something to do with the whole "Wake" part and all...

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Originally Posted by Sageous

And you're correct, by definition it is impossible to WILD non-lucidly ... something to do with the whole "Wake" part and all...

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Yeah good point LOL

So I had an interesting experience this morning, coming closest to a WILD thus far I think. I used one of the techniques in ETWoLD and was seeing a dream form around me, but I think I was attempting a bit too late in my sleep period because I just couldn't get that extra push to actually fall asleep and enter. Going to try again tomorrow and do it earlier.

That good though. Keep it up hope you get a WILD soon! I need to give that a try myself. I just keep falling asleep and having FAs. It's so annoying lol.

so sageous why do you recommend attempting WILD's on your back?

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Originally Posted by xpin2winx

so sageous why do you recommend attempting WILD's on your back?

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Primarily from experience -- the vast majority of my successful WILD's occurred while on my back, with on my right side coming in a distant second. Aside from that anecdotal evidence (which ought to be enough, I think, given the overall subjective nature of my course), I believe the sleep yoga folks recommend sleeping on your back if possible, and I've also noticed most reports I've gotten from other accomplished LD'ers over the years included sleeping on their back.

So my suggestion may be based on anecdotal evidence, but who knows? There may be some consciousness-related brain chemistry that occurs only when you sleep on your back. Whatever it might be, going to sleep on your back seems to work best.

I did the usual, woke up after 3-4 hours of sleep, went back to sleep without worrying too much on the attempt. Then I woke up around 7 AM, tried to maintain awareness, but it seems I had 4 hours of extra sleep and no recall.

I'm doing something wrong, and I usually remember my dreams with no problem at all. Whenever I wake up, I block out all aspects of waking life to quickly type my dreams.

Maybe I should just sleep earlier and do WILD attempts when it's still dark at night. I usually try two WBTBs during vacation, and one when I'm in college for obvious reasons.

As for big challenge with sleeping on the back, I don't know if I posted this, or if anyone has posted this before (I have a gut feeling I did), but anyway, the swallow reflex really was a problem for me.

Spoiler for How to prevent it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hljU1TQxmKk

But yeah, after watching the video in the spoiler, the next challenge for me is keeping up with my anchor.

I usually try to stay up for 45 minutes to 1 hour on my WBTBs, which does make me more awake, but I still yawn a lot, so I try to sleep back after that amount of time. There was one time where I spent 90 minutes on a WILD, but that was during a 3-5 AM interval, and I WILD instantly!

I've eradicated the swallow reflex issue from my WILD attempts, the dream recall is something I'm okay in, but can still work on, but it seems I forget any dreaming I have when I sleep again through the morning and wake up near the afternoon.

Is it a bad idea to go through that ritual of sleeping?

Like,

(sleep)11PM-3AM----->WBTB (45 minutes - 1 hour (or even 90 minutes))--->Wake up 6-7 AM,--->WBTB for maybe 15-45 minutes--->Wake up around 11AM-1PM?

You know...I do relax a lot, I do flex freezing, reverse eye blinking, and I do it slowly without trying to tense up.

I countdown from 100-1, usually get sidetracked when I get to the 30-40 range, bring myself back together in awareness (because each inhale and exhale I do takes 5 seconds) and if I go through all the way, and countdown again, it keeps me aware for at least 20+ minutes.

And I only focus on counting down, and not my body. Maybe I just need to find when to hit REM again.

Anyway, sorry for the long post there, but just wanted to explain what I usually do (most of the time I do it in a half-hearted manner) :P

I know youre asking Sageous but I just want to add my experience because I dying to learn too. Anyway I watch the HI while holding awareness. I guess you could say I'm half-hearted as well. I just find that too much effort or technique keeps me awake. I've come close but I've yet to have an actual WILD so maybe I'm wrong. Also I never have swallowing issues. Maybe because I sleep on a recliner when I WILD? Maybe try that? The pillows look like too much to me. What's that roll over signal he talks about? Ah soo much exrtra info... confusing. LOL.

I have the same problem everytime I WILD. I'm intimately familiar with relaxing and using a focus now (been practicing meditation) and from previous WIDL attempts I'm very familiar with the SP feelings, but I always hit a wall.

Last night I woke up about 4 hours in, (usually I wake up later, so i thought I'd give it a try at an early time.) I laid down and in about 5-10 minutes I was completely relaxed, and I remember distinctly feeling SP hit, and my whole body was very tingly-- my arms felt like I had been laying on them, they were tingling and buzzing so much.

I know that at this point you are supposed to let yourself fall to sleep, maintaining a minute level of awareness through a focus...for about 7 minutes each, I'd wager, I tried visualizing myself into a dream...then I tried simply focusing on my breathing...then I tried simply letting myself fall into sleep...

Nothing happened at all, I finally got out of bed and did a RC (just to make sure I had gone into a dream unnotice) and finally just stayed up, WBTB, and fell asleep some 15 minutes later. (I did have a DILD later in the night, so it wasn't a total waste).

This is usually the case for me-- I can deftly maneuver through the relaxation and Seep paralysis Stages, but then nothing ever happens. Any suggestions?

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Originally Posted by Xanous

What's that roll over signal he talks about? Ah soo much exrtra info... confusing. LOL.

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Yeah, the roll over signal is something that you don't have to worry about (it's just like you said, extra information that isn't necessary), but yeah, I just use two pillows to slant my neck a little, but I usually end up just sleeping by my side and just let it drool. :eek:

Hi, new to the forum, but wanted to register so i could jump in on this thread. Sageous, your technique has given me all the answers i will ever need for achieving a wild. I have a question though.
I lay down after a wbtb and relaxed focusing on my mantra of choice, "self awareness, focus". This seems to keep my awareness very well focused. However, it seems like Hi does what it can to suck me in to sleep. I can be laying there focusing hard on my expectation of the dream to come while repeating my mantra, and then, a random hypnogogic thought will seem to override my mantra. Is there a reason for this? I should mention, that i am a blind guy so, my hypnogogic thoughts i am refering to are all auditory. Like i said, i feel the mantra is strong enough but i can't seem to hole awareness when powerfull hypnogogic crap starts asulting my waking awareness. Should i just ignore it as strongly as possible, or should i use a different mantra? I did achieve a Dild after lapsing breefly in to sleep once the hypnogogic stuff started so, i don't feel like i screwed up completely.

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Originally Posted by Linkzelda

Is it a bad idea to go through that ritual of sleeping?

Anyway, sorry for the long post there, but just wanted to explain what I usually do (most of the time I do it in a half-hearted manner) :P

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Linkzelda:

I can't see anything wrong with the ritual you outlined, and I see that you've already seen room for adjustment, time-wise. Ritual, and planning for ritual, is a good thing, because it sets your mind and body into a synchronous "mood" for dreaming, and that is always a good thing.

But no matter how many times you repeat your ritual, it always must matter as much as the very first time you did it! Half-hearted efforts are almost always wasted efforts, I think, especially with WILD. I may have mentioned this once or twice before but mental prep is the key to WILD and LD'ing, and entering your routine half-hearted will only yield half-hearted results. Try to stay focused, don't expect the techniques to do your work for you and, above all, only attempt WILD when you're fully ready for it!

I guess all I'm saying here is that WILD is not a half-hearted pursuit ... try to remember that.