DEILD Seperation Problem - Heeeeelp

[ezzolucid]

Hi all. Last night I used my dield alarm and it went off during rem. I remained still and within seconds my body started to vibrate along with other strange sensations. I knew that I was transitioning into a dream but when I tried to 'seperate' ( roll out of my body ) I couldnt move at all and then awoke trying. This has happened a few times. My question are these... When DEILDing should I wait until all the strange sensation have stopped, and then seperate? ( My thinking is that once all the strange sensations have stopped is that I would have fully transitioned into a (visionless dream) and would be lying there aware but asleep Once I feel these vibrations / noises etc what would be the best thing to do to turn it into a lucid dream or 'bedroom obe'? Thanks. Can I please get comment from people that practise DIELD and know the process :-)

[pontozero]

Have you ever tried to just let go and just be aware of the sensation? Most probably what is waking you up is the effort to "separate" and the excitment/expectation from it. When a DEILD happens to me I usually just let go and try to observe/feel everything with as much awareness as possible. What seems to help is to focus on the clear, sharp visual images that start to pop in front and usually serve as a "bridge" to enter a dream. For example, if suddenly from the vibrations I clearly start to see a beach in front of me I try my best to focus on it until it is as real as it can get and that's usually when my "separation" occurs into that place and the dream starts. It's weird to talk about "separation" since most of the times I seem to be aware of both "bodies" and use that as a measure of how deep I am into a dream. So don't focus to much on the idea of being completely "separate" from your body. Sometimes it can get tricky and you're in this "in between" zone of being both fully in a dream and at the same time feeling and knowing your leg is starting to hurt and you probably will need to change position in bed. Hope this helps, good luck with your next experiences!

[ezzolucid]

Thanks Pontozero, great advice. What happens is that when DEILDing I feel vibrations, noises and all manner of weird and wonderful things and its these sensations that I remain aware of. There is no visual aspect to this. Are you suggestion that whilst all of these crazy sensations are occurring, I should maybe 'look at the back of my eyelids' and try to see images and wait for them to materialize OR should I just wait until all the sensations stop before 'rolling out of my body' into an 'obe'? Thanks :-)

[Sageous]

I'll let Pontozero answer your last question (though my vote, as you likely know, would be for ignoring all that hypnopompic noise and settle back to sleep and your dream -- and if rolling out of your body doesn't work, then don't do it), but I had another, perhaps nonconstructive thought: I'm not sure that what you are doing is actually a DEILD, since a DEILD transition occurs, literally, when you realize you are beginning to emerge from your dream into wakefulness. The DEILD process is very fluid, very fast, and very dependent both on your not becoming fully awake and remaining aware of the dream from which you are exiting (or at least the fact that you are exiting a dream); inserting an alarm into that process sort of breaks up that process, and turns it into something else. Not that there's anything wrong with that: What you might actually be doing is a form of what I think LaBerge called EILD, for electronically induced LD. I'm assuming you knew you were in REM because either a machine or careful tracking of your REM periods told you so, and the alarm was meant to wake you during REM so you could be sure to catch it when you went back to sleep.. so what you were doing was much closer to a "classic" WILD with no WBTB than it was a DEILD. I'm not pointing this out to be nit-picky or obsessed with nomenclature (or to be a condescending ass), but instead to help explain why you're encountering all that noise, and that maybe you would do better to ask LD'ing experts about WILD techniques to better learn to incorporate that noise into your process. Also, the process you are doing, being a hybrid of "classic" EILD (i.e., using a novadreamer) and WILD, and being something perhaps just different enough, might just need an "ILD" of its own... maybe WEILD?

[pontozero]

Thanks Pontozero, great advice. What happens is that when DEILDing I feel vibrations, noises and all manner of weird and wonderful things and its these sensations that I remain aware of. There is no visual aspect to this. Are you suggestion that whilst all of these crazy sensations are occurring, I should maybe 'look at the back of my eyelids' and try to see images and wait for them to materialize OR should I just wait until all the sensations stop before 'rolling out of my body' into an 'obe'? Thanks :-) You're very welcome! Just relax and allow yourself to flow through it, don't expect anything specific to happen just experience whatever goes your way, be it sounds, vibrations, images, whatever it is. I know sometimes it can be a pain, and occasionally a literal pain that is hard to ignore (I remember feeling sharp painful shock waves on my muscles on some episodes that would force me to wake up) but if you just keep your mind busy, paying conscious attention to what is happening without moving your body, it's basically all you need for a successful transition, at least from my personal experience. As for the terminology, I'm leaning towards what Sageous suggested, although I'm horrible with nomenclature myself. Either way, don't let definitions hold you up. It seems what you are doing is working, it's just a matter of letting your mind and body relax enough to not push you out of it. Again, good luck!

[ezzolucid]

Hi, so last night I woke during a dream, remained still and then the vibrations were all over my body. I remained totally calm and fine with it. I stayed consciously aware and decided to start visualising during these vibrations. No dream scene materialized and the vibrations ended after about 45 seconds to a minute. When they stopped I tried visualizing again but noting. I then done a reality check but was awake The 3 nights before that I tried seperating during the vibrations by rolling out but couldnt move at all I have had over 20 succesfull vibrations 'roll out of beds' in the past but somethings not working out this time. I would have though that if I waited for the vibrations to end then I would have transitioned into a dream but that didnt happen Really need help here - ive missed 4 lucid dreams Thanks guys Ezzo

[pontozero]

Hi, so last night I woke during a dream, remained still and then the vibrations were all over my body. I remained totally calm and fine with it. I stayed consciously aware and decided to start visualising during these vibrations. No dream scene materialized and the vibrations ended after about 45 seconds to a minute. When they stopped I tried visualizing again but noting. I then done a reality check but was awake The 3 nights before that I tried seperating during the vibrations by rolling out but couldnt move at all I have had over 20 succesfull vibrations 'roll out of beds' in the past but somethings not working out this time. I would have though that if I waited for the vibrations to end then I would have transitioned into a dream but that didnt happen Really need help here - ive missed 4 lucid dreams Thanks guys Ezzo First, don't take yourself too hard on missing LD's. Eventually that will keep happening as you can't be grasping all the LD's all the time. At least for me it comes in waves, periods where I LD a lot and long periods where nothing happens, no matter what I try. Maybe you're getting so eager to get there that it's actually being counter productive. Just keep insisting each time you feel those vibrations, enjoy them without thinking too much from it. Try not to even visualize anything, just focus on what you are feeling and go from there. Best of lucks!

[Goldenspark]

Hey Ezzo, on reading your post I thought exactly the same as Sageous, that your technique sounded a bit like a classical WILD, not a DEILD. Since you've previously got your "roll out" method to work, maybe what has happened is that you are now bouncing out of the near lucid state to awake instead of going lucid. My WILDs often don't come with vibrations etc, but in the past I have had a couple where I waited until they had stopped and then transitioned in the classical WILD way. Maybe you are now trying too hard, which is waking you, and just need to "let go" into the dream more? Of course you then risk doing into a non-lucid, but at least you would prove the point.