Homosexuals, what to think of them?( Bible related)

[Beanhole]

More ignorance. The question is not whether she has red it, the question is have you read it? I have. page by page. And i have seen plenty of contradictions. The bible is like a movie with terrible plot holes, and fanfic that is taken to scale with the original, then ruins it. That is all i can compare it to, because i am tired right now. Yes, I have read the Bible. These "contradictions" make sense if you give a bit of thought to them instead of blowing the whole book off as being fake. If you read it with a closed mind, your never going to understand it, and you'll quickly assume that it's a bunch of lies. Moonbeam, you said "The bible makes no sense because it is not based on truth (you know, science, evidence, stuff like that)." However, the Bible was written by people. These people wrote down what they witnessed and experienced. They did not make up what they wrote. If you choose not to believe the Bible, you should also choose to not believe any other ancient texts as they may have been "made up" as well. Can science disprove God? I think not. One last question for you Moonbeam, if you can answer me this and give me proof that you are right, I will believe you. How did the world begin? (And no, I'm not talking about how humans came to be, but how did the universe form. What was before the "big bang" if thats what you believe in?).

[ClouD]

God loves me. I've done sexual things with guys.

[cuddleyperson]

^^ see the problem is Beanhole, that argument goes round and round. Moonbeam doesn't know what was there before the universe( if there is a before) because he wasn't there. It's like me asking you "So who made God, our sentience required creation, you say a creation needs a designer, God is the ultimate creation, where is his creator, and his creator, and his creator, and so on." You probably think God has always been. Moonbeam will most likely say either "he doesn't know" an honest and truthful statement or that the Universe has always been. Big bang Expansion Out of energy Contracts back into the singularity Big bang again thats a repeatable cycle.

[Sornaensis]

Yes, I have read the Bible. These "contradictions" make sense if you give a bit of thought to them instead of blowing the whole book off as being fake. If you read it with a closed mind, your never going to understand it, and you'll quickly assume that it's a bunch of lies. Moonbeam, you said "The bible makes no sense because it is not based on truth (you know, science, evidence, stuff like that)." However, the Bible was written by people. These people wrote down what they witnessed and experienced. They did not make up what they wrote. If you choose not to believe the Bible, you should also choose to not believe any other ancient texts as they may have been "made up" as well. Can science disprove God? I think not. One last question for you Moonbeam, if you can answer me this and give me proof that you are right, I will believe you. How did the world begin? (And no, I'm not talking about how humans came to be, but how did the universe form. What was before the "big bang" if thats what you believe in?). 1.) Then please pass on the enlightenment, for we here have put thought into our conclusion of contradiction. 2.) We don't know. That's the whole point. And that is also a pitiful strawman to pull. Xian: "Well then, wtf made the universe?" Atheist: "We don't know" Xian: "See? Gawd did it!!1on11" Atheist: *Noob slaps*

[Beanhole]

2.) We don't know. That's the whole point. And that is also a pitiful strawman to pull. Science can't prove how the Universe was created. Christianity can. It is much more believeable (at least to me) that there was a creator of the world rather than the world just appearing. And no, its not a pitiful strawman, its an argument that you would like to push aside since you do not know the answer.

[ClouD]

Science can't prove how the Universe was created. Christianity can. It is much more believeable (at least to me) that there was a creator of the world rather than the world just appearing. And no, its not a pitiful strawman, its an argument that you would like to push aside since you do not know the answer. Nothing, can prove anything. Or... nothing. Meh however you'd like to say it.

[Adrenaline Junkie]

Science can't prove how the Universe was created. Christianity can. It is much more believeable (at least to me) that there was a creator of the world rather than the world just appearing. And no, its not a pitiful strawman, its an argument that you would like to push aside since you do not know the answer. Christianity proves nothing, it is merely a set of beliefs (<<keyword). Scientists cannot currently prove how the universe was created, its a typical christian way of getting out of an argument, by bringing up things that are not yet proven and turning them into an argument. I can bet that there will be an explanation to how the universe was created, hell the big bang theory is the best one going yet. But put it this way, its like saying "Tell me what the weather was like a million years ago today?" Its a hard question to answer, i am sure that if we had the resources that science could find these things out, but as you can see, we are a bit limited on what we can do in this world. Its best to stay open minded rather than believing a book written over a millenia ago. Because lets face it, if that book was written today instead of back then i can gurantee that people would be very skeptical of it.

[skysaw]

Science can't prove how the Universe was created. Christianity can. Please explain. Perhaps you are using a definition of "prove" that I have never encountered.

[Daeva]

So, you respect the beliefs of skinheads? Sure. I may not approve of the message they put out, but on the occasion I've met and actually talked to one I didn't just put down what he believes in and insult him because of it. I actually talked to him about it for a while, learned a little about it all and in the end I hung out with the guy a lot despite his beliefs. Played a lot of RPG's with him, actually.

[cuddleyperson]

Science can't prove how the Universe was created. Christianity can. It is much more believeable (at least to me) that there was a creator of the world rather than the world just appearing. And no, its not a pitiful strawman, its an argument that you would like to push aside since you do not know the answer. Yes but a few hundred years ago( well the big hundreds), we didn't know what made people sick. Hence why he often say "bless you" when people sneeze, we thought it was the devils work, which is laughable these days ( and yet.....Christianity tells us this, is it laughable to..). Now because of SCIENCE we know what causes disease and can treat/cure a majority of them. If we had stuck to the bible we would have what, drilled holes in the heads of most patients to let spirits out, killing the majority. You admit also that science is right in this respect( or i hope you do..). This is an old example but it's the same as your Universe argument. We don't know yet, maybe we never will, or maybe science will show us what truly happened. So give science time rather then saying " oh they don't know... God did it!", your ancestor would have said " Oh we don't know what makes them ill... THE DEVIL DOES IT!! Lets all pray God heals them....ops they died, i guess they deserved it, God lost to the devil or God doesn't care, ah well, 580 deaths and none saved, i'm sure praying will work next time though!" *I know trepanning can be a treatment occasionally but i mean it's not going to cure the flu or anything.*

[Sornaensis]

Science can't prove how the Universe was created. Christianity can. It is much more believeable (at least to me) that there was a creator of the world rather than the world just appearing. And no, its not a pitiful strawman, its an argument that you would like to push aside since you do not know the answer. http://evolutionspace.files.wordpres...callitgod1.jpg Q. Fucking E.D.

[Siиdяed]

Yes, I have read the Bible. These "contradictions" make sense if you give a bit of thought to them instead of blowing the whole book off as being fake. If you read it with a closed mind, your never going to understand it, and you'll quickly assume that it's a bunch of lies. Apologies, but I too have read the Bible with a somewhat open mind (I am Christian in that I believe in an omnipotent, benevolent God, but find that the Bible and the Church have overcomplicated it) and would be interested to hear your views on how the Bible does not contradict itself, because (though I've given a few reasons earlier for why they might occur) I would appreciate your views. I take it you're a fairly devout fundementalist, Beanhole? Apologies if I'm wrong.

[Beanhole]

Apologies, but I too have read the Bible with a somewhat open mind (I am Christian in that I believe in an omnipotent, benevolent God, but find that the Bible and the Church have overcomplicated it) and would be interested to hear your views on how the Bible does not contradict itself, because (though I've given a few reasons earlier for why they might occur) I would appreciate your views. I take it you're a fairly devout fundementalist, Beanhole? Apologies if I'm wrong. Give me an example of how it does and I will give you an answer.

[Beanhole]

also, if you want to know what I believe, go to this link: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_delp.htm

[Marvo]

Moonbeam, you said "The bible makes no sense because it is not based on truth (you know, science, evidence, stuff like that)." However, the Bible was written by people. These people wrote down what they witnessed and experienced. They did not make up what they wrote. If you choose not to believe the Bible, you should also choose to not believe any other ancient texts as they may have been "made up" as well. Can science disprove God? I think not. My dear boy. The point in science, is that everything we discover, can be replicated, by different scientists around the world. If you can kill Goliath with a rock, tame a bunch of lions, hear a snake talking to you and other truths like that, please explain your way of proceeding, and the scientists at the DreamViews Academy will return within short time, with results, that hopefully match. One last question for you Moonbeam, if you can answer me this and give me proof that you are right, I will believe you. How did the world begin? (And no, I'm not talking about how humans came to be, but how did the universe form. What was before the "big bang" if thats what you believe in?). As has already been mentioned, we will probably never get to know what was before the Big Bang, through natural means. We can make theories, but unless we figure out how to go back in time, or if we can enter another dimension, where the big bang has yet to happen, we can probably never be absolutely certain. Now, I know you want to say the easiest solution to this mind struggle, is to believe God did it. Scientists, and those who listen to scientists, would much rather take the difficult, yet likely explenation, over the easy and unlikely explenation. I'm saying unlikely, because a creator of the universe is very unlikely, compared to Big Bang, that eventually will be provable through experiments. Oh and by the way, Cuddley, Moonbeam is a woman.

[Siиdяed]

Give me an example of how it does and I will give you an answer. ...um, shall we start at the beginning of the thread? The differences between teachings on homosexuality, largely OT laws and NT Jesus-equality. Plus, try using the edit button. Double-posting vexes me, because I think I'd get a warning if I did it.

[Beanhole]

...um, shall we start at the beginning of the thread? The differences between teachings on homosexuality, largely OT laws and NT Jesus-equality. Plus, try using the edit button. Double-posting vexes me, because I think I'd get a warning if I did it. Alright, the OT says that you should not be gay. The NT says to love everyone and treat them well. Whats the problem?

[Adrenaline Junkie]

The bible is a book written by a bunch of sexist, violent, sadist,racist bigots. They must have had some sick ideas when writing this, and i bet that if they were alive today they would be shocked to see that so many people accept its false teachings. Oh, and for the record, the new testament only seems to be an update to be more appealing to the way society is changing. If not we would see many stonings worldwide because of the divine teachings of the Holy Bible. At least there is a separation between state and church, otherwise there would be chaos. Oh, but i forgot, god left fossils on earth to test our faith. Damn, don't i feel stupid now for falling for those fossils, but of course, belief is something a lot more powerful than evidence. I'd happily jump off a cliff in the belief that god would save me. :sarcasm:

[Beanhole]

The bible is a book written by a bunch of sexist, violent, sadist,racist bigots. They must have had some sick ideas when writing this, and i bet that if they were alive today they would be shocked to see that so many people accept its false teachings. Oh, and for the record, the new testament only seems to be an update to be more appealing to the way society is changing. If not we would see many stonings worldwide because of the divine teachings of the Holy Bible. At least there is a separation between state and church, otherwise there would be chaos. Oh, but i forgot, god left fossils on earth to test our faith. Damn, don't i feel stupid now for falling for those fossils, but of course, belief is something a lot more powerful than evidence. I'd happily jump off a cliff in the belief that god would save me. :sarcasm: Wow, this really angers you? Anyways, the Bible, while written by men was inspired by God. Therefore what you say is blasphemy. Please don't come on the religion forums just to try and mock us with no evidence backing up your statements. And by the way, the Bible has predicted things that have happened many years in advance. Coincidence? Lucky? I don't think so. To me, there is an OVERWHELMING amount of evidence that the Bible is true. If you would open your minds to it, which I hope you do, you would see that. Edit: maybe your just mad cause England lost to Croatia. j/k RUSSIA FTW!!!

[Adrenaline Junkie]

Okay, what has the bible predicted that has come true? I'm all ears. What do you mean blasphemy? I do have evidence to back up my claims. In the Old Testament, there are many parts which are racist, extremely sexist against women, and in some parts i get the impression that god is a rather violent bastard. I personally do not own a bible, so i cannot quote anything, but i can guarantee you that there are sections in the bible which pretty much display what i described above. Okay, one more question, you say there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that the bible is true. Please do present me with this evidence. As i said above, i'm all ears. EDIT - My guess is that i'm expecting too much of you, you are more likely to divert the argument and come up with more claims without evidence to support them. *sigh*

[Sornaensis]

Okay, what has the bible predicted that has come true? I'm all ears. What do you mean blasphemy? I do have evidence to back up my claims. In the Old Testament, there are many parts which are racist, extremely sexist against women, and in some parts i get the impression that god is a rather violent bastard. I personally do not own a bible, so i cannot quote anything, but i can guarantee you that there are sections in the bible which pretty much display what i described above. Okay, one more question, you say there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that the bible is true. Please do present me with this evidence. As i said above, i'm all ears. EDIT - My guess is that i'm expecting too much of you, you are more likely to divert the argument and come up with more claims without evidence to support them. *sigh* Just to point out a few of these: In Leviticus: Men must thank god that they were not born female. W-t-f? Also in leviticus: Woman are said to be "unclean" for 7 days after their menstrual cycle,. and anything they touch must be destroyed.

[Adrenaline Junkie]

Just to point out a few of these: In Leviticus: Men must thank god that they were not born female. W-t-f? Also in leviticus: Woman are said to be "unclean" for 7 days after their menstrual cycle,. and anything they touch must be destroyed. ^^^ And there is your evidence Beanhole, thanks Seis.

[Sornaensis]

^^^ And there is your evidence Beanhole, thanks Seis. Hang on, I'll get the exact quotes in a second... Edit: 06Leviticus 12:1-2 (King James Version) 06    14106And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 14206Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean.] Leviticus 12:3-4 (King James Version) 3And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. 4And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying three and thirty days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled. 06Leviticus 12:5-6 (King James Version) 06    14506But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days. 14606And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or a turtledove, for a sin offering, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto 06Leviticus 12:7-8 (King James Version) 06    14706Who shall offer it before the LORD, and make an atonement for her; and she shall be cleansed from the issue of her blood. This is the law for her that hath born a male or a female. 14806And if she be not able to bring a lamb, then she shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons; the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering: and the priest shall make an atonement for her, and she shall be clean. 06Leviticus 12:7-8 (King James Version) 06    14706Who shall offer it before the LORD, and make an atonement for her; and she shall be cleansed from the issue of her blood. This is the law for her that hath born a male or a female. 14806And if she be not able to bring a lamb, then she shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons; the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering: and the priest shall make an atonement for her, and she shall be clean. This is about birthing... On to find the others...

[♥Mark]

Moonbeam doesn't know what was there before the universe( if there is a before) because he wasn't there. She Science can't prove how the Universe was created. Christianity can. It is much more believeable (at least to me) that there was a creator of the world rather than the world just appearing. And no, its not a pitiful strawman, its an argument that you would like to push aside since you do not know the answer. This is a common logical fallacy known as an argument from ignorance. It's also referred to as "god of the gaps" in terms of religious debate. Filling in the blanks with your god does no more to prove its existence than that of anything else. Here is the format of your logic: X is not understood You cannot prove that Y does not exist Since X is not understood, it was because of Y Since you cannot prove that X was not because of Y because X is not understood, it is definitely because of Y Therefore, Y must exist The main problem here is that Y could be an unlimited number of imagined beings (many of which are supported by just as much scripture and mythos as yours). Simply, it is non-sequitur to assume that Y is your specific god. It is an incredible leap of faith (hint: this is a bad thing) with no logical basis given this premise.

[Beanhole]

Okay, what has the bible predicted that has come true? I'm all ears. What do you mean blasphemy? I do have evidence to back up my claims. In the Old Testament, there are many parts which are racist, extremely sexist against women, and in some parts i get the impression that god is a rather violent bastard. I personally do not own a bible, so i cannot quote anything, but i can guarantee you that there are sections in the bible which pretty much display what i described above. Okay, one more question, you say there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that the bible is true. Please do present me with this evidence. As i said above, i'm all ears. EDIT - My guess is that i'm expecting too much of you, you are more likely to divert the argument and come up with more claims without evidence to support them. *sigh* One of the most important things the Bible predicted was the birth and death of Jesus. This was predicted hundreds of years in advance. Yes, Jesus was a real person and there is evidence in real life to support this. An accurate prediction like this means the Bible is false? I think not. There are many more examples. Just ask if you want to hear them. ^^ And there is your evidence, LucidSeeker. Seismosaur, you said this: "Just to point out a few of these: In Leviticus: Men must thank god that they were not born female. W-t-f? Also in leviticus: Woman are said to be "unclean" for 7 days after their menstrual cycle,. and anything they touch must be destroyed." One thing before I start, it isn't 7 days after their menstrual cycle, its 7 days after they've given birth. The reason for this was to punish the woman for her sin. Eve was the first woman on the Earth, and was the first sinner. If you do not know what happened here is a summary: She was told by God not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, she was tempted by the serpent and ate the fruit. Because of this, GOD HIMSELF told her that she would have PAIN IN CHILD BEARING and that she had to remain separated from others for 7 days after giving birth. Why do women not have to do this today? Because Christ died on the cross for our sins and took this punishment away.