Thread: Homosexuals, what to think of them?( Bible related)

Hey guys, i have a gay friend and he has been subjected to an amount of "anti-gay" talk from Christians. My School is a Church School and everyone is fine there, or at least they don't say anything to his face. But from a Christian youth worker that comes sometimes, he has had some negativity toward him and was bullied a little in main school by two quite strong Christians i know.

The thing is, how are Christians supposed to act? I understand how they feel since their Book does teach them that Homosexuality is completely wrong and is a sin. The perpetrators should be punished just like any other bad sin.

Here are some Bible Quotes on the subject:

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be put upon them."
-Leviticus 20:13

"Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the Lord."
-Proverbs 18:22

Leviticus 18:22:
"You shall not lie with a male as those who lie with a female; it is an abomination."

this would suggest that homosexuals are an "abomination" and so following these types of quotes, a Christian may feel that God wants them to discriminate against homosexuals, in olden times maybe even kill them.

However there are also these quotes:

"Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard." (Leviticus 19:27)

"...and the swine, though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, is unclean to you." (Leviticus 11:7)

"...do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear material woven of two kinds of material." (Leviticus 19:19)

I do not know of any Christians in my area that no not cut their hair, do not eat pork and do not wear clothes made of two kinda of material. I am also quite confident that even Christian farmers do plant more then one type of crop in their fields.

Then there are also quotes by Jesus about equality and acceptance:

"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."
— Jesus (from the Bible, Matthew 22:39)

"Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God."
Romans 15:7 (New International Version)

34"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
John 13:34-35 (New International Version)

"But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."
1 Samuel 16:7 (New International Version)

These quotes would suggest that Christians should not judge each other and so you would treat a homosexual just like anyone else, like your own family. For God will judge them, it isn't mans right to judge.

Now these anti homosexual and acceptance quotes obviously contradict one another. SO how do Christians choose which to obey? Should the Christians at my school treat Gays negatively like some bible quotes suggest, or positively like others?

I don;t understand how the process of picking and choosing which quotes to follow works. Like i said before, a don;t know of Christians in my area that don't eat pork, so they have dis obeyed that ruling surely, yet they do go to Church on a Sunday, obeying that ruling. I confuses me...(

Any anyone shed some light on this?

Originally Posted by cuddleyperson

Hey guys, i have a gay friend and he has been subjected to an amount of "anti-gay" talk from Christians. My School is a Church School and everyone is fine there, or at least they don't say anything to his face. But from a Christian youth worker that comes sometimes, he has had some negativity toward him and was bullied a little in main school by two quite strong Christians i know.

The thing is, how are Christians supposed to act? I understand how they feel since their Book does teach them that Homosexuality is completely wrong and is a sin. The perpetrators should be punished just like any other bad sin.

Here are some Bible Quotes on the subject:

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be put upon them."
-Leviticus 20:13

"Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the Lord."
-Proverbs 18:22

Leviticus 18:22:
"You shall not lie with a male as those who lie with a female; it is an abomination."

this would suggest that homosexuals are an "abomination" and so following these types of quotes, a Christian may feel that God wants them to discriminate against homosexuals, in olden times maybe even kill them.

However there are also these quotes:

"Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard." (Leviticus 19:27)

"...and the swine, though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, is unclean to you." (Leviticus 11:7)

"...do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear material woven of two kinds of material." (Leviticus 19:19)

I do not know of any Christians in my area that no not cut their hair, do not eat pork and do not wear clothes made of two kinda of material. I am also quite confident that even Christian farmers do plant more then one type of crop in their fields.

Then there are also quotes by Jesus about equality and acceptance:

"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."
— Jesus (from the Bible, Matthew 22:39)

"Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God."
Romans 15:7 (New International Version)

34"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
John 13:34-35 (New International Version)

"But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."
1 Samuel 16:7 (New International Version)

These quotes would suggest that Christians should not judge each other and so you would treat a homosexual just like anyone else, like your own family. For God will judge them, it isn't mans right to judge.

Now these anti homosexual and acceptance quotes obviously contradict one another. SO how do Christians choose which to obey? Should the Christians at my school treat Gays negatively like some bible quotes suggest, or positively like others?

I don;t understand how the process of picking and choosing which quotes to follow works. Like i said before, a don;t know of Christians in my area that don't eat pork, so they have dis obeyed that ruling surely, yet they do go to Church on a Sunday, obeying that ruling. I confuses me...(

Any anyone shed some light on this?

Good example of one of many bible contradictions; Although I believe any serious theologian will agree that the teachings of Jesus are held in higher authority than those of the old testament.

Hence I think if I was a christian I would follow Jesus, because he makes far more sense than the old testament God, and in fact says on the sermon on the mount that he is tightening and updating the original mosaic old testament law; so yeah. follow Jesus. Jesus says love thy neighbour and don't judge anyone else.

Then don't do it

I'm Catholic and we believe we should treat them as equals too.
That's not to say we believe what their DOING is right but to be just to them.

So the bible contradicts itself on whether to kill them or love them. What else is new.

Yeah really. Someone sexuality shouldn't be offensive to you. Unless they are in-your-face gays, those people annoy everyone.

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

So the bible contradicts itself on whether to kill them or love them. What else is new.

He isn't asking for you to sneer at the bible.

He's asking what you think a good christian SHOULD do when given the choice. Even if you aren't one, you could at least help.

Yeah, like Carou said, Jesus' teachings were very much replacing the older covenant of the Old Testament. There is evidence of this in various places, such as when Jesus violates the Sabbath, when Jesus ignores Jewish tabboos (talking to the Samaritan woman, etc).

The idea most Christians take is that Jesus' preachings are a replacement for those of the Old Testament, it was God reaffirming his word on earth, whatever. It isn't necessarily a contradiction.

Therefore if I were to rely on the Bible for a stance to take, I would stick with Jesus' teachings of equality, tolerance and so on.

Ah but the thing is, how does one know how literally and how heavily he should obey his religious teachings? Surely God wants his followers to obey all the laws he sets down. However obeying all of them cannot be done as some contradict one another, so since in the OT it is more God's word, and he says homosexuality is wrong and those who commit it should be punished, it would make more sense to follow this ruling, thus discriminate against homosexuals. Then to follow the more recent NT teachings of Jesus where he suggests loving ones neighbor as ones self, since he may have meant love the ones who are not knowlingly sinful as much, those who act "Christian". Since homosexuals are knowingly sinning, surely if one wants to obey God as much as possible, he should discriminate them as they as known sinners?

Originally Posted by cuddleyperson

Ah but the thing is, how does one know how literally and how heavily he should obey his religious teachings? Surely God wants his followers to obey all the laws he sets down. However obeying all of them cannot be done as some contradict one another?

Well wouldn't you at this stage put 2 and 2 together and realise that maybe you shouldn't be following a contradictory religion?

Anyway, it doesnt contradict, reread mine and sindreds posts.

^^

Ok so your suggesting the NT holds president over the OT. But there are many things discussed in the OT which are not in the NT. If what is discussed in the OT seems old fashioned to our standards but is not changed in the NT, would one still follow that OT way or drop it. Surely Gods decisions do not change, and if they have changed to fit our new society, shouldn't be give us a new set of laws? Considering it has been 2000 years since his Son came to enlighten us, 2000 years is a long time without any more intervention, which could help maybe confused followers.

Originally Posted by cuddleyperson

^^

Ok so your suggesting the NT holds president over the OT. But there are many things discussed in the OT which are not in the NT. If what is discussed in the OT seems old fashioned to our standards but is not changed in the NT, would one still follow that OT way or drop it. Surely Gods decisions do not change, and if they have changed to fit our new society, shouldn't be give us a new set of laws? Considering it has been 2000 years since his Son came to enlighten us, 2000 years is a long time without any more intervention, which could help maybe confused followers.

Alright, look, Im not a christian. I cant defend this.

It doesnt make sense to me either. Ask a christian.


I suppose a christian would probably have to conclude for themselves. come up with a good compromise.


But I know it doesn't make sense. Thats christianity for you

although i am almost a Christian (today)... i dont think you need the bible to tell you whats right. if you believe in a loving, compassionate god what do you think the right answer is?

this is why i favor personal spirituality over organized religion.

In my humble opinion it is so that we humans can only be loved, hated, shunned or praised uppon choices of our free will. Anyone who agrees with that?

You do not choose to be born with the sexual orientation you have. You just find out one day which sex attracts you. The same goes for your looks, race/ethnicity, familiy...etc We should not judge eachother or be judged uppon things that be that are not of our free will. It makes no sense. If it DOES to any of you, then enlighten me and clearify.

The bible is the word of God. It is just as true today as it was when it was penned. Who are you to pick and chose which parts of the Bible God meant and which He didn't? Where in the Bible do you find where it lists the dates upon which certain teachings no longer apply? Did I miss a footnote at the end of every one of God's laws where it said "if you think it's a good idea"? By your own authority you have decided that these laws are "old fashioned" or "no longer apply". To say that is to tell God Himself that He is wrong about His own creation; to say that His word is wrong. His word is very clearly spelled out in the Bible for everyone to see. To oppose God's law is to oppose that which is righteous and you will be judged.

The council of nacea put in what they wanted. Not God.

Originally Posted by cuddleyperson

However there are also these quotes:

"Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard." (Leviticus 19:27)

"...and the swine, though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, is unclean to you." (Leviticus 11:7)

"...do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear material woven of two kinds of material." (Leviticus 19:19)

I do not know of any Christians in my area that no not cut their hair, do not eat pork and do not wear clothes made of two kinda of material. I am also quite confident that even Christian farmers do plant more then one type of crop in their fields.

Srry if I didn't quote that right, I'm new here and not good with computers, but felt like I needed to reply to this.

These are quotes from the old testament. Cutting the hair, eating pig, planting with 2 kinds of seeds, these were all things that were associated with superstition and idolatry, which are sins.

Christians today (myself included) do not have to follow these laws because Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins. The reason that Jews still do these things is that they do not believe in Jesus and what he did for us, therefore they are still living in the past and following laws that we are relieved of.

Also, Moonbeam, please stop with your blasphemic comments. I do not think that the author of this topic asked for criticism of the Bible, rather clarification of it.

every sin is forgivable, except if a person speaks badly about the holy spirit.

since religion resides in a world of absolutes... i guess that means homosexuals are fine as long as they don't bad-mouth god. i guess that means any christian can do whatever they want, so long as they don't talk shit about the big man.

sweet.

i believe in loving and excepting everyone as equals as long as they are exactly like me.

Spoiler for THE ULTIMATE PROOF THAT YOU SHOULDN'T TAKE THE BIBLE LITERALLY!:

"Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?" 1 Corinthians 11:14


























































































Hmmmm...?

I think a christian ought to examine the origins of their holy book and realize where each individual gospel/book came from in order to fully realize what each message really means rather than taking them all at face value as indisputable. A christian should also examine holy scriptures written by those anointed by Jesus and his Disciples that were censored by the Roman Council when they decided all other branches of Christianity except Catholicism were blasphemous in order to regain control over its people. And the Da Vinci code was not my only source of this information, in order to find the truth of God I decided not to accept the bible as it is but rather find out where it came from and I did my own research. I've found Gnostic texts provide a contradiction free approach to understanding of Christ's message. That is, contradiction free if you're further willing to research the origin of symbols and accept scholars disagreed with each other as much then as they do now.

Why In The World Did You Make Such A Wierd Thread!??!
You shouldnt start saying things on the internet if he doesnt know.

God I hate the bible.

yea i used to be christian but some of their teachings are harsh towards others so now i just go with the flow(religion wise). and belive if homosexuals wish to be that way then thats there right

Originally Posted by LDhippie

yea i used to be christian but some of their teachings are harsh towards others so now i just go with the flow(religion wise). and belive if homosexuals wish to be that way then thats there right

You missed the point.

Ok, let me ask you a question: Did you ever wake up one day and decide to be straight (I am assuming you are straight)?

I doubt it. Puberty just worked on your brain, specifically pituitary and Endocrine, and you most likely started to just "notice" the opposite sex.

Same goes for homosexuals, and bisexuals. It's just the way they are.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

You missed the point.

Ok, let me ask you a question: Did you ever wake up one day and decide to be straight (I am assuming you are straight)?

I doubt it. Puberty just worked on your brain, specifically pituitary and Endocrine, and you most likely started to just "notice" the opposite sex.

Same goes for homosexuals, and bisexuals. It's just the way they are.

I've been attracted to females since I was like 5. It wasn't puberty.