Thread: TPV's experimental music

I love noise, ambient and experimental stuff. This first track is really good. I am subscribing to your channel sir!

Thanks, glad you like it, I'll be uploading plenty more soon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG-DO2xCNqU

This one is almost musical!

Just have to comment to say it's good to see some more people into experimental music, and willing to create and share it with the rest of the world. Good stuff! The third one is definitely the best.

Hey thanks for the comments. I still love to make and listen to normal music but there is alot out there that most people will never experience or even understand. It's definitely alot of fun to make because you don't have to painstakingly worry about every small detail. Theres also alot of great musical ideas that can be applied to normal music that come out through Noise, maybe accidentally but still good inspiration.

I just ordered some cd's from artists like John Zorn, Keiji Haino, Yamatsuka Eye, and Merzbow. Alot of great stuff that the vast majority of people will never hear.

hey, my first impression with the first minute was: hey... this is what I do when I lack heart or soul and am just to tired to try anything experimental in my music mode. its senseless banter basically. When I sit down to write a song I really do it, and only then can I start thinking about adding parts.

my reaction by the end was this:

dude, common, I mean common. are you serious? no

its not experimental music. okay, I mean it has its moments but its completely rambled and articulated in its emotional properties and timing. You just have a crazy and mind numbingly painful to listen to after the first minute Effect on top of a on guitar tune. Its way too wet. There are just so many things you are missing. I am sorry to sound hard.

okay now that I have heard the last two songs of garble and trash, I am even more confident with what I have said only to add: This sound is not only annoying, but no in Pink Floyd or any other experimental band out their is going to want to listen to this nor would they want anything to do with it. This isn't even as complicated as white noise!

dylanshmai, music is not about creating something other people will want to listen to. When TBV uses the term "experimental" and mentions names like John Zorn and Merzbow he's not talking about the kind of experimentation that bands like Pink Floyd or even King Crimson might employ. He's talking about crazy avant-garde stuff. It's not for everyone, sure, but there's no need to become so offensive. Just accept that some of us enjoy our dose of white noise, and what could be wrong about that?

Wow, the first two are very, very good.

Hey thanks for the replies everyone. Ardent Lost is right about what I mean by experimental. Not all of my pieces are Noise genre, alot of them are synth improvisations that aren't harsh. I used the term experimental to cover both types and anything else.

This stuff is definitely not for popping in your car's cd player and listening to it's meant to be something you can sit down in a quiet room and listen to and see what mental images and feelings you get.

I realize that but, musically all of the songs here are not premeditated to the point of even being music as some structures are not glued together by the notes that would make a song a song, and its just him fiddling on the guitar like he doesn't no anything about music. Its just wankery, I do it all the time, but you have to understand the fact is this is just mediocre, and its not musical in any sense, because its just a bunch of ill-thought out guitar riffs that he played on his bed half asleep. Its not what you or I dig, I'm a guitarist, and its just fucking typical shit you pull out of your ass while playing out of boredom. The effect that is slapped on to it is their to distract you from the actual playing.

Originally Posted by ThePhobiaViewed

it's meant to be something you can sit down in a quiet room and listen to and see what mental images and feelings you get.

No its not, because their is no flow or groove, every random 5-12 seconds you completely change it up, sometimes its playing in the same scale, but you wouldn't even know, because your just wanking it! for christ sakes. There is no emotional or uplifting thing about what you are diong. especially when your last two songs are just you changing the frequency of a single fucking note, and with no rythem or structure and its something a stupid baby who just popped out of his moms vagina could put together.

Why don't you just admit that these noisy samples took you as long to make as the actual time of the song. I'm not an idiot, I have been playing guitar for over 5 years, play many other instruments, study all sorts of music and song writing work, and record my own music along with other peoples after going to a recording engineer school for a half year and then continuing on from their.

It seems like what you want is attention for the riffs that sort of just jerk from your head when you realize you have ran out of ideas or resources and are not motivated enough to make actual music, and there is no way you could possibly layer anything else over the first song, because you don't remember the sounds or chords you played in that song, because it is last minute wankery.

Here, I know of a forum where you can put your stuff on: Gearslutz.com is full of engineers and musicians and producers that make a living off of what they do. Take your stuff their and see if you get any good criticisms other then mine.

Gearslutz.com, and then post the results here. I dare you to do it, triple dare you okay? okay...

Chill dylanshmai, I have plenty of actual musical songs that I've made and put a lot of time into and I've played guitar for about the same amount of time you have. Ill repeat it again, this is NOISE. It's called NOISE for a reason. Go and look up some NOISE musicians and I'm sure you think their stuff is as bad as mine and they sell more cds than you ever will. A lot of this stuff is not musical at all, it's not supposed to be, thats why it's called NOISE.

Yes these mostly took me as long to make as the song is long. I came up with a setting on my Boss GT-8 that gave me a unique sound and allowed for me to easily turn certain things on and off. For the most part these are all one take improvs. I'm just exploring different ideas.

Do I want attention for this stuff? No not really it's not even my best Noise, it's just what I happen to have uploaded to youtube and came here looking for opinions from educated people.

I have no problem with you not liking what I have done but there is no reason for you to go on and on in the manner that you are. Why do you feel you need to insult what I have made when you obviously know nothing about the genre?

You say it's not stuff you can sit down and listen to to get the emotion. Last night I listened to John Zorn's album Kristallnacht and the 50th Birthday Celebration Volume 10 (Yamatsuka Eye and John Zorn Duo). Both of those are very popular cds and are for the most part not musical at all. John Zorn is one of the best sax players ever and he just randomly plays fast notes when he plays Noise. Fred Frith is on that second cd i mentioned and he is a much better guitarist than you or I will ever be yet he still goes out and plays shows in front of people where he plays things that are harsh and nonmusical and the crowds love it.

Fred Frith Noise
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BuZMH0nLOcQ

Fred Frith making David Gilmour jealous
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yhgOZlRvZXs

I don't care what a forum of "professional musicians" thinks about my music. I have ears, I know what my music sounds like, I know what I like and what I don't. Maybe I'm just more musically open minded then all those pros who think you need to use chord progressions and hooks to create something that people will like. Plenty of people like and listen to Noise. I'm not try to make money off my music, if I was I'd make a crappy boy band and make 3 minute songs that make 12 year old girls feel good inside.

There is no need for you to act like a moron by swearing and making childish references when saying you don't like my music. If you are as good of a musician as you say you are then you should understand that everyone has different tastes.

I made this thread to get opinions from people who act maturely. If you can't do that and if you can't give an opinion that doesn't just trash what I have done then please refrain from posting, you're just making yourself look like a fool.

You don't seem to realise that your idea of what is music is not gospel, dylanshmai. You seem to consider music as a science - playing in scale, with a beat, composing and sculpting a piece until it "makes sense". Don't get me wrong, music of that nature can be amazing, but it's not the only way to create music.

In my opinion, any art is first and foremost about expression. Who are you to tell people that their personal expressions are not valid because they don't align with your own feelings? Do you not think that some people will get different feelings from music? And that said music doesn't have to follow stuffy rules in order for it to convey emotion? So what if this music took 3 seconds to make? What does that have to do with anything? Once again, it seems your mentality is that music must be created from somebody who is technically accomplished, and musically intellectual.

I have listened to plenty of avant-garde music and i can tell you with sincerity that i have been moved by noisy, incomprehensible sounds as much as i have been moved by composed music.

Any music is nothing more than noise. It's just some of us can see that a frequency can be a valid conveyor of expression whether it was created by a stradivarius or a board of contact mics caked in delay and distortion. They're all just sounds man.

Originally Posted by ThePhobiaViewed

Boss GT-8

Exactly what i use (for noise and other). What program do you use to record? Any post-processing done?

Originally Posted by Ardent Lost

Exactly what i use (for noise and other). What program do you use to record? Any post-processing done?

All of those were using Audacity and no post-processing. That last vid I added where I say it's almost musical was just me using my Korg R3 synth and recorded the arpeggios first, then the sweeping ocean wave like sound, then the random soloing in D Dorian then I added the pulsing bass all in one take improvs while listening back to the other tracks I had recorded.

I have another song where I recorded using a small mp3 player and set it near my bass amp to give it a more ambiguous feel and lower sound quality, I hope to upload that one soon.

I actually run my guitar or bass into the GT-8 then that into a Boss BR-8 recorder then that into my computer's Line-in jack and use audacity to record it all. The reason for using the BR-8 is that it is easy for connecting my keyboard, synth, or a microphone to while the GT-8 is still hooked up since the BR-8 has 2 inputs plus then I can adjust each of the sensitivities and the overall volume very easily.

music can be noise. and random timing is one thing in its self. But random notes that don't even coordinate is the worst part, and thats what I am hearing folks .

Originally Posted by dylanshmai

But random notes that don't even coordinate is the worst part, and thats what I am hearing folks .

Well that's what alot of Noise is like. John Zorn's Cobra (one of the musical game pieces) ftw.

Originally Posted by ThePhobiaViewed

Well that's what alot of Noise is like. John Zorn's Cobra (one of the musical game pieces) ftw.

Look, your not like him or that music, first of all, they are way more de-constructed than anything you have shown here, and yet almost perfectly constructed, and much more complex then what you are doing, which is trying to sound constructed, and is in fact, but they way you smash everything together is not progressive or anywhere as strategic as John Zorn, and it falls apart, in fact your tunes are nothing like his when I here the actual notes and timing of what your playing. Nothing alike.

I didn't mean that my music is like his and I definitely wouldn't dare compare my stuff to his, I was just pointing out that a lot of his works have random notes. And I don't even make music that sounds like John Zorn's because a lot of it isn't to my tastes.

I've kind of realised i'm arguing out of context here. The music presented on these pages isn't really even that extreme. I can hear a basic foundation in 'normal' musicality quite plainly. Ok, it's not the most developed/'clean' experimentation around, and i agree this is completely different to John Zorn, but about the only way for one to find ones own sound is to just experiment. You're expecting something out of TPV that you shouldn't be expecting. You don't really need to berate him because he doesn't meet your expectations.

But like i said, i don't even understand why you find this stuff that abrupt. It would be interesting to hear what you would say about something like Masonna or Borbetomagus, dylanshmai, if you react this way to TPV's music.

Originally Posted by Ardent Lost

I've kind of realised i'm arguing out of context here. The music presented on these pages isn't really even that extreme. I can hear a basic foundation in 'normal' musicality quite plainly. Ok, it's not the most developed/'clean' experimentation around, and i agree this is completely different to John Zorn, but about the only way for one to find ones own sound is to just experiment. You're expecting something out of TPV that you shouldn't be expecting. You don't really need to berate him because he doesn't meet your expectations.

But like i said, i don't even understand why you find this stuff that abrupt. It would be interesting to hear what you would say about something like Masonna or Borbetomagus, dylanshmai, if you react this way to TPV's music.

Both those bands have more range, dynamics, and better timing aside from the uncontrolled distortion which is meant as a circus act in which you can dance however you want to. Still not comparable. I'm done trying to argue, and I am only arguing because I don't even know where to start with the list of problems, maybe you check out what jazz is. I'm not going to go home to listen to distortion, and tunes that aren't even strange or new, but just garbage. I have expectations. please kill me

Wow. Ok. All i can say is you have very different ears to me. Timing? What timing does Borbetomagus have? What timing does Masonna have, really?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9kRaoczOhI

I'm seriously dumbfounded that you think music like in the above clip has more timing, range, and dynamics than the clips TPV has posted. I just.... wow.... i can't say any more than that. And what does jazz have to do with anything?

well, don't worry about it because I write music. The timing of that Asian experimental band you showed me I actually counted and it was all in steps of 4. The next band you showed me wasn't a 4 step all the time, because I am pretty sure it was jazz. Now try counting steps in this guys music, its completely random, you know why? no, because you don't write music, so let me tell you: its because its plain old wankery that uninspired guitarists have after playing for a long time. Its just a phase, and I am telling you from my experience and a few other guitar players experience who I know

oh, its dynamics are very arguable, because well, they're both sort of playing out their asses. I didn't say I liked either bands.

Originally Posted by dylanshmai

well, don't worry about it because I write music. The timing of that Asian experimental band you showed me I actually counted and it was all in steps of 4. The next band you showed me wasn't a 4 step all the time, because I am pretty sure it was jazz. Now try counting steps in this guys music, its completely random, you know why? no, because you don't write music, so let me tell you: its because its plain old wankery that uninspired guitarists have after playing for a long time. Its just a phase, and I am telling you from my experience and a few other guitar players experience who I know

Steps of 4? Jazz? I don't write music? Where do you pull this stuff from? You're pulling my leg, aren't you? You must be. I'm wondering whether i should continue arguing because i'm honest to god thinking that you must just be having fun with me now. Please tell me you are.

In case you aren't: there are no steps, the only link to jazz any of those 'bands' have is that Borbetomagus could be said to be related to free jazz, and i have been writing and recording music for years. In fact i have been playing guitar for over nine years and have taught other people how to play so you don't need to tell me anything about the guitar or timing. Oh and random does not equal unmusical.

But none of these points matter, because you're only joking about all this, right?

you guys don't know anything about me. except for my opinion on this matter which I think is complete wankery, which is completely normal, but not musical. You wouldn't be able to guess who I was in real life, you wouldn't know. I might have gotten a bit confused on what band was what, because you guys showed me about 4. jhon zorn did some jazz stuff. That asian band was going to a 4 step some of the time, except for the inserts of distortion, which no one wants to listen to, or doesn't care enough at the time to call it anything but music (which is what it is). I define music, by the skill, time, notes played, and most importantly of all: the construction of the music, and the writing that goes into it, that is just as much apart of music, and these songs lack just that.

You say you've taught people guitar lessons, so have I. I've been in all sorts of bands, and have written over a 100 songs. blah blah blah. Can, you guys even tell me the kind of emotional impact these tunes have on you? or what kind of essence it holds? happy? sad? angry? dark? I can't even tell because its so muddy, and the effect steals the show with repetitive bumps in the same tone range. flanger, phaser, whatever it is, is fucking annoying to me.

its my opinion against everybody elses what can I say, everyone thinks differently.

Originally Posted by dylanshmai

you guys don't know anything about me. except for my opinion on this matter which I think is complete wankery, which is completely normal, but not musical. You wouldn't be able to guess who I was in real life, you wouldn't know. I might have gotten a bit confused on what band was what, because you guys showed me about 4. jhon zorn did some jazz stuff. That asian band was going to a 4 step some of the time, except for the inserts of distortion, which no one wants to listen to, or doesn't care enough at the time to call it anything but music (which is what it is). I define music, by the skill, time, notes played, and most importantly of all: the construction of the music, and the writing that goes into it, that is just as much apart of music, and these songs lack just that.

You say you've taught people guitar lessons, so have I. I've been in all sorts of bands, and have written over a 100 songs. blah blah blah. Can, you guys even tell me the kind of emotional impact these tunes have on you? or what kind of essence it holds? happy? sad? angry? dark? I can't even tell because its so muddy, and the effect steals the show with repetitive bumps in the same tone range. flanger, phaser, whatever it is, is fucking annoying to me.

its my opinion against everybody elses what can I say, everyone thinks differently.

I admit some of the songs could have been better but did you listen to the last one I added by itself in a post? I'm just curious on your thoughts on that one (Alien Plains). I do know where you are coming from with your criticisms though. mindwanderer's post which I believe was towards you was really unnecessary. Even if you didn't have to phrase your criticisms in the manner you did at least you made some actual points in your posts unlike mindwanderer.