Thread: Tell me about some martial arts...

Judo is all about defense. Most martial arts are, it's more dependent on the teacher. I teach karate, which is traditionally a very aggressive style, but I focus on the defensive aspects of it.

tai chi...you wont inflict any pain at all lol

taichi sounds very boring. :0

And also, ninja, waht is a tiger claw? owo

A tiger claw is a way that you hold your hand. There are two hand positions that are commonly called the Tiger Claw. The way that I teach the tiger claw is with the fingers up and the thumb out of the way. The striking surface is the palm or the finger tips depending on which technique it is used with. I usually teach it as a raking technique on either the eyes of the groin.

Another variation is what I call when I teach the Eagle claw, it's a grabbing hand position, the striking surface are the thumb and index/middle fingers. It's used for grabbing the throat or blinding someone.

How can that blind someone? :O

I'm currently learning Aikido. If you want a really defensive form this is the one for you. It mostly is based on the pricipals of rotational motion and torque. The object is to move out of the way of your opponent's attack, then counter him into a position where he can't attack anymore. There are a lot of throws and submission holds (that hurt a lot!), however most of this stuff won't cause permanant damage. However, aikido does take a lot longer to learn and apply then the other martial arts. You need to be able to dedicate at least three years before you can really rely on it.

tai chi isn't boring, it's very satisfying especially a you have a good teacher.

You can inflict pain with it, but you have to be really good at it.

You wanna know about aikido?

Well... For one (and I might tick off a fellow-aikidoka, here): I wouldn't really say it's a true 'martial art'.

It originated from martial arts roots, but aikido itself is (I would say) not a 'true' martial art.

So what is aikido? Really?
Just a study. You basically study principles that flow through martial arts and fighting styles in a rigorous manner through techniques, these principles include moving from your centre, putting your entire bodyweight behind an attack and behind 'defensive' techniques, pre-emptive striking, good body posture, how the body works (read: which way you should not turn that particular joint), avoiding an attack, unbalancing, relaxing your body and moving like that, the correct way of breathing, a correct mindset, etc. etc. etc.

With that said, I wouldn't bet on it in real life situations, though. Again, since aikido is basically just a very humble study of martial principles through the techniques that were designed to be used by the samurai on the battlefield when they lost their weapons, and when they were clad in full armor, they would have to be modified a bit before being effective in the streets, or even in sports, for that matter.

It doesn't mean it's totally ineffective in real life, though. A teacher of mine works in this sort of 'clinic' for mentally challenged people, and apparetly violence is pretty common there. He's been practicing modified aikido techniques to subdue assailants without getting permanent damage done.

...of course, application of these techniques often involve two or more people applying the technique, and he's a sixth DAN aikidoka... (Might snap you out of your illusion on the greatness of aikido as a 'self defense while not hurting much'-martial art or the idea of it becoming effective after having trained a couple of years)

And since you're on your own in a real life fight, that means real-life 'defensive' techniques based on aikido principles WILL be more violent and more damaging (think MMA or MCMAP). Pure aikido simply won't cut the cake in real life (just think about the anecdote of Shioda-sensei who has allegedly won a fight once using aikido... How did he win, exactly? He did an 'atemi'. Which is a STRIKE to a VITAL AREA OF THE BODY).

...Either that, or you must've been doing it for a VERY long time, AND be extremely lucky, probably (especially if you take into accound the adrenalin rush you get in a fight, and therefore the loss of all motor skills except for those pertaining to the VERY BIG PICTURE)


So what I'm trying to say is IF you want a practical 'defensive' martial art (which probably doesn't even exist), DON'T go into aikido expecting to become invincible or something. Don't have that illusion.
Why? Because aikido. Isn't. Fighting. Whenever people say that aikido is 'inefficient in real life', they're totally right, but they're also comparing apples and oranges. Why? Because aikido's goal ISN'T to fight. It's to study.


Still, not to degrade aikido or deem it worthless: it's very, very interesting, and gives you a VERY nice base of principles to integrate into other martial arts and fighting skills. It'll make transitioning and understanding other martial arts and self defense arts easier because you have all the knowledge of the underlying principles that are at work.


P.S. (I can't resist)

Originally Posted by dorpis

How can that blind someone? :O

Here's an experiment for you:
1) stick out your thumb and your index/middle finger.
2) ram them into your eyes.




Right... I'm gonna stop now. Bye!

Aikido seems very practical. Learn how do punch and kick properly, learning about proper fighting posture etc.

Seems like it'd be more useful than actual martial arts because it's just knowledge without and forms or styles attached. Reminds me of Bruce Lee and his Jeet Kune Do

If you are interested in actually being able to defend yourself, then going on the offensive can be pretty important. For example, three guys get you cornered. Your best move is to fuck one of them up really badly and run. Then one of them has to stay behind to take care of the one you hurt and now there is only one chasing you. Worst case scenario, they have no loyalty to each other and there are two chasing you. Still better then three.

You can 'play nice' one on one, but as soon as you have a multiple attackers situation, you have to start taking them out of the fight to even the odds. That's probably gonna mean breaking bones, blinding, cutting deeply or inflicting massive head trauma. And keep in mind that the more of that you do, the more pissed off the other ones are going to get. I wouldn't worry too much about not hurting someone once they have demonstrated their willingness to hurt you. It's easy to think about while everything is calm, but once the adreneline is really flowing you're going to do what you need to do and you're not even going to think about it.

Of course the odds of you ever needing to actually fight are pretty slim unless you're in the habit of making an asshole of yourself. The best strategy is to avoid fights. If you are really commited to fighting 'peacefully', choose a martial art that has repelling kicks, learn them and turn the 'return' (where you are withdrawing your leg after the kick) into your first step away from the situation. Follow it with more.

EDIT: It's of course important to note that if all they want to do is steal your wallet, it's probably better to just let them have it. When I'm talking about really fucking people up, it's assuming that that's what they want to do to you.

EDIT 2: Chen style tai chi is much less boring then the Yang style that you have probably seen

Originally Posted by dorpis

How can that blind someone? :O

Because the striking target is the eyes. It's only temporary, permanently blinding someone is actually fairly difficult.

Awesome, I think I don't want to study hapkido, but it did seem cool.

You do know that I watched bits of the game of death recently, right? :I

You could maybe check out Wing Tzun. Im learning it at the minute.

It's like aikido followed by a flurry of punches.

I prefer to learn unarmed combat. Methods that are not dependent on physical strength, previous martial arts training, speed or fitness. Knowledge based systems such as Target Focused Training or Accelerated Battlefield Combatives, for example. Learning our body weapons as well as the soft and hard targets of the body, spinal reflex action, base leverages, etc.

There is no "self defense" involved though the first lesson is to learn our most effective weapon..Our mouth, to talk ourselves out of trouble and to walk away.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Most martial arts start with unarmed self defense. Just stay away from MMA instructors because they tend not to do practical self defense.

Not everyone has studied Martial Arts though.

Huh? We know, that's what this thread is about

With respect, the point I was trying to make is that I think that to be able to defend against a determined attacker requires a lot of skill. For the average person to be blocking, stepping and defending from a cause will not get you safely out of harm's way. An Aikido, Judo or whatever fighter will restrain and limit harm to themselves or others with there skills, depending on how good they are of course.

In a savage world courses like TFT and ABC can make all the difference in a nasty situation. I think I put that together properly.

a lot of pressure point type stuff goes out the window in a fight. The fight/flight response kicks in and you get loaded down with adrenaline which temporarily increases your strength but decreases moter skills and capacity for clear thoughts. Having lots of testosterone helps modulate that so that you can think cleary and regain some fine moter skills but that requires fitness...

Originally Posted by The Biscuit King

With respect, the point I was trying to make is that I think that to be able to defend against a determined attacker requires a lot of skill. For the average person to be blocking, stepping and defending from a cause will not get you safely out of harm's way. An Aikido, Judo or whatever fighter will restrain and limit harm to themselves or others with there skills, depending on how good they are of course.

In a savage world courses like TFT and ABC can make all the difference in a nasty situation. I think I put that together properly.

Yes, it does require a lot of skill to be able to effectively defend yourself against an attacker, but requires a minimal amount of skill to hack a defense together. Remembering basic targets is all you need. A swift kick to the side of the knee will cripple an attacker and allow you to get away. You should never try and restrain an attacker, you never know if he's got buddies watching and waiting to come to his aid. An arm bar is useless against multiple assailants. Hit hard and run.

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

a lot of pressure point type stuff goes out the window in a fight. The fight/flight response kicks in and you get loaded down with adrenaline which temporarily increases your strength but decreases moter skills and capacity for clear thoughts. Having lots of testosterone helps modulate that so that you can think cleary and regain some fine moter skills but that requires fitness...

No amount of adrenaline can overcome a proper pressure point technique, however pressure points take a great deal of skill to use properly. I would never recommend a beginner attempt to use one against an attacker. The fight/flight response only happens if you panic or consider your attacker a threat. I've been in one self defense situation, but I didn't consider the guy a threat, so my heart rate didn't increase at all.

I agree. I was sacked from my job last year for using excessive force. I was fully exonerated after about 11 months of legal bullshit. You know your stuff obviously.
As for pressure point fighting, Dan Millman is the man.

I wasn't implying that adrenaline can make one immune to pressure points. I was implying that it can interfere with your own ability to properly apply them. I agree about joint locks being useless though. They're good if you decide to play nice for some reason. In a real fight, they're pretty useless.

It can be surprisingly hard to take someones knee out. I've been involved in full contact sparring and accidentally had the side of my knee struck several times. It hurts but I think that I could have gone on (the instructor saw and stopped the spar) with adrenaline flowing. It would take a pretty strong kick to do the job.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

Just stay away from MMA instructors because they tend not to do practical self defense.

Because learning how to:
1. strike (with punches, elbows, knees, kicks)
2. avoid and block strikes
3. throw,
4. defend throws
5. grapple
is useless for practical self defense.
Especially if you train those techniques against resisting opponents and with full contact sparring, while developing a sense for timing, distance and correct footwork.


How many times have you (or your instructors) tried this 'tiger claw' in training? And by 'tried in training' I don't mean trying to hit the air in front of you or simulating the strike on your training partner while he's standing still. How many times have you actually hit someone in the eye, groin, or knee in training with full force?

so...another of these kind of threads eh? Honestly...eye groin and knee are very good vital spots....you just have to get accidentally hit in one of those spots...now imagine that force you felt with actually speed and power put in to it....yeah...

anyways, I disagree that mma instructors do not teach proper self defense...It depends if you are in a purely sport gym or an actual school that mixes many martial arts