Thread: Ask me about vegetarianism

Originally Posted by mindwanderer

Wow, your argument is about as good as mine. I'd say prove it, but I'll start. We have enzymes in our stomachs specific to proteins in meat, we have canines, we've been eating meat for as long as we've been here. We're omnivores... that is to say, we eat meat. A proper diet can have meat and not kill you at a young age. You ignore other variables to make it seem like meat consumption causes these diseases. You don't consider that people that eat lots of meat likely have a less active life style... there may be a cause and effect... but you fail to outline the 'why'. I'm not against vegetarians, as long as they do their studying and don't sound like fools.


Wow, great counter-point. You know I'm right and as such try to out me by putting words in my mouth. You could be a politician with the way you carry yourself in arguments. Unfortunately that's not a good thing.


Notice the bolded "just". You make it seems like all it takes is distribution. If it were that simple we would've done it by now. And you can't without being a goddamn liar say that the longer an individual in western society lives, the worst off the entire planet is. Even if you're a high and mighty vegan hybrid driving tree hugger. Some vegetarians act like they're the cure to everything wrong in the world. There's waaaay more to it than that... and if people took the time to understand it then I wouldn't have a problem.


Clearly you have subpar reading comprehension.

Since you aren't taking the times to flesh out your responses and have a legitimate argument I won't either.

Here you are, mindwanderer: http://www.celestialhealing.net/physicalveg3.htm
it's how humans are not physically created to eat meat. I'd really appreciate though that this thread is used for questions and not an argument.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Do any vegetarians enjoy the taste of meat?

You mean enjoyed?
I did. I really loved meat, especially bacon. But it's all worth it when you remember why you're doing it

You can't really expect me to take this crap as being anything of than complete garbage can you? First of all that's from a website called celestial healing dot net, and second of all it contains childish logic.

Meat-eaters: have claws

Herbivores: no claws

Humans: no claws

Thus:
Saddam Hussein: has facial hair
Stalin: has facial hair
Obama: no facial hair

So facial hair equals evil? Just something to think about as far as that logic.

And secondly... this site gives no mention of omnivores in the comparisons. It says meat eater, herbivore, and human. That's the type of ignorant garbage that twists peoples mind. This site is CLEARLY biased. As well, it states that raw bloody meats disgusts humans... well that's an effect of society and culture, not evolution. I practiced a raw beef diet for several weeks, and grew to like the taste. This person also goes about reasoning in a non-scientific method.

My highschool bio prof had 30 years experience in human biology, and one thing he loved to argue about was the misconception that meat is bad for humans. We have canines, we have the enzymes for digesting complex proteins... our digestive system is perfectly at home digesting meat. Though I should be clear, cooked meat is the problem. People who practice a raw meat diet are way better off, since the enzymes and proteins aren't denatured through cooking.

None the less, you'll have to do better than a site

Again, I aknowledge that a diet high in meat can be unhealthy depending on how lean the meat is and what lifestyle you have. But it is not true that meat is inherently bad for humans and that we aren't meant to eat it.

Originally Posted by mindwanderer

You can't really expect me to take this crap as being anything of than complete garbage can you? First of all that's from a website called celestial healing dot net, and second of all it contains childish logic.


Thus:
Saddam Hussein: has facial hair
Stalin: has facial hair
Obama: no facial hair

So facial hair equals evil? Just something to think about as far as that logic.

And secondly... this site gives no mention of omnivores in the comparisons. It says meat eater, herbivore, and human. That's the type of ignorant garbage that twists peoples mind. This site is CLEARLY biased. As well, it states that raw bloody meats disgusts humans... well that's an effect of society and culture, not evolution. I practiced a raw beef diet for several weeks, and grew to like the taste. This person also goes about reasoning in a non-scientific method.

My highschool bio prof had 30 years experience in human biology, and one thing he loved to argue about was the misconception that meat is bad for humans. We have canines, we have the enzymes for digesting complex proteins... our digestive system is perfectly at home digesting meat. Though I should be clear, cooked meat is the problem. People who practice a raw meat diet are way better off, since the enzymes and proteins aren't denatured through cooking.

None the less, you'll have to do better than a site

Again, I aknowledge that a diet high in meat can be unhealthy depending on how lean the meat is and what lifestyle you have. But it is not true that meat is inherently bad for humans and that we aren't meant to eat it.

You're right. Again, let's not use this thread to argue. This thread is for people to ask. Not argue/debate. We can do that through PMs or other threads.

Sorry, I've been a dick...

Don't worry. You haven't, you just got very passionate about your arguments, it happens to all of us, I think

Cool, thanks for the recipe and links. I missed that earlier. I'm going to try that for sure.

Originally Posted by undeadjellybean

You mean enjoyed?
I did. I really loved meat, especially bacon. But it's all worth it when you remember why you're doing it

I could potentially see why someone would go vegetarian due to the conditions in which animals are raised/killed. Arguments that humans aren't made to eat meat or that eating meat in general is specifically unhealthy are nonsense though.

So that withstanding, if you enjoy the taste of meat, why not just buy meat advertised as being organic or "ethically raised". There is a market for that.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

I could potentially see why someone would go vegetarian due to the conditions in which animals are raised/killed. Arguments that humans aren't made to eat meat or that eating meat in general is specifically unhealthy are nonsense though.

So that withstanding, if you enjoy the taste of meat, why not just buy meat advertised as being organic or "ethically raised". There is a market for that.

CBA

Originally Posted by Xox

CBA

There should be a minimum letter count for posts or something.

Originally Posted by Xox

CBA

I was asking people who enjoy the taste of meat (e.g. bacon).

What's CBA?

Edit: If it's Cost-Benefit Analysis, then there would probably be no better way,
to explain, why I'm vegetarian. Many different factors play a role and when it
comes down to it, comparing the arguments is what makes it easy for me to
decide.

But I have a feeling that is not what you meant

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Do any vegetarians enjoy the taste of meat?

Most of the taste lies in the use of spices anyway. I did enjoy the taste
of meat, before I was a vegetarian for sure and I could probably now, if
I didn't automatically associate the process of it all.

While I did enjoy the taste a lot, I have never missed it ever since I stopped eating.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

I could potentially see why someone would go vegetarian due to the conditions in which animals are raised/killed. Arguments that humans aren't made to eat meat or that eating meat in general is specifically unhealthy are nonsense though.

So that withstanding, if you enjoy the taste of meat, why not just buy meat advertised as being organic or "ethically raised". There is a market for that.

While you can say that eating meat in general being unhealthy is nonsense,
it is not that a vegetarian diet generally is more healthy. I have provided a
number of (also scientific papers and) sources to support that stance. You
can of course disagree, but it is a reason for me and neccessary for me to
mention, in order for you to understand my reasoning.

Second paragraph:
I don't eat meat, because I don't see an inherent reason in the first place.
Furthermore, it had been shown that 'ecological' meat is generally not really
more environment friendly, the 'ethical market' is not always as ethically
correct as advertised. Marketing isn't always telling the turth and as a
matter of fact, on a globalized market, you can never really know unless
you have observed it yourself. That is true for probably all products.
(I'm not making this up, I would love for them to be these farms that we
would like them to be, but that 'ethical' market has gotten pretty big itself)

Even if animals weren't to suffer as much, wasting of ressources, water
and a pretty big impact on environemnt still prevail. (I could look for some
sources if you'd like, but I have read it quite a few times)

Although I would support people buying ecological meat, I wouldn't do it
myself, because I don't think it is right to raise animals for slaughter (without
the inherent reason, other than tradition, imo) in the first place. Also I just
have to ask myself - if all people were to buy there, than it would just be
a transfer of the circumstances without much change.

Like I said, just trying to explain my POV.

Originally Posted by dajo

What's CBA?

Can't be arsed...


Anyways, meat specifically isn't unhealthy. It's the type of meat, the method of preparation and the proportions that make the difference. I don't really consider fast-food "meat", and deep frying in general is pretty bad for your health. Fatty meats like bacon would be bad for you if you ate a ton every day, but having a couple slices every now and then will probably make me live longer because of the moral boost alone . I know some people that only eat the meat of wild animals they've hunted/caught. That meat is extremely lean and healthy, free of most of the crap that is pumped into livestock. I'm sure there are many vegetarians leading unhealthy diets because they don't properly compensate for the lack of protein and minerals that they are no longer taking in.

Also I don't have an inherent need to drink beer either, but I enjoy it so why not? Do you eat egg or dairy products? Because if you're going the ethical route (or resources route), egg-laying chickens and milk cows don't exactly have it better.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

I know some people that only eat the meat of wild animals they've hunted/caught. That meat is extremely lean and healthy, free of most of the crap that is pumped into livestock.

This to me is like the difference between night and day.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

I'm sure there are many vegetarians leading unhealthy diets because they don't properly compensate for the lack of protein and minerals that they are no longer taking in.

Basically it comes down to that in order to eat healthy, you need basic nutritions.
Of course, vegetarians can be unhealthy. But lack of protein is not as big of an
issue as most people believe.

Also I don't have an inherent need to drink beer either, but I enjoy it so why not? Do you eat egg or dairy products? Because if you're going the ethical route (or resources route), egg-laying chickens and milk cows don't exactly have it better.

Well, if you'd bring up a good case to show I am hurting others and the environment,
I would consider not drinking it anymore, regardless if I enjoy it. I'm not going down
any particular road, I picked up on 'ethical' from your post and as to why I wouldn't
buy any meat in these kind of outlets either. Also I am not sure how this branch
of industry is called in English exactly. In Germany it's 'Bio'.

It would have to be reasonable, and in my eyes it's reasonable to pass on meat.
(that's responding to the beer thing, it's good to do things one enjoys, I just really
try to find those that involve as little suffering or waste as possible, which is not easy)

But ressources and ethical reasons are driving forces, and reasons, why I
wouldn't cut myself any slack. And while I was researching it, I came
to the conclusion that there is in actuality no big difference between meat,
dairy products and eggs and that is why I don't consume these either. So,
to answer your question, no I don't.

Edit:
Just to make it absolutely clear:
I am not thinking of myself of being on some moral highground.
This often happens when people start to talk about ethics. I'm really not.

Edit2:

When I say ecological, I usually am talking more about rain forest, waste, ressources and this stuff.

I raise your Vegitarian'ism and see you Vegan'ism

I have been a vegan for ages now, its truely a great way to live!

I do it because i really believe that not eating any animal product leads to a clear mind and lets me be able to get to a higher level of meditation, and so far this is truth.

Originally Posted by IndigoGhost

I raise your Vegitarian'ism and see you Vegan'ism

I have been a vegan for ages now, its truely a great way to live!

I do it because i really believe that not eating any animal product leads to a clear mind and lets me be able to get to a higher level of meditation, and so far this is truth.

Realistically, the meats and processed foods we eat in this day and age have all sorts of added chemicals. Antibiotics, growth hormones, ammonia, etc.. The only time you would find your food toyed with when it comes to vegetables is through it being processed or if it is genetically modified. Both are avoidable, though GM is probably the most difficult to avoid.

What you said is pretty much factual.

Originally Posted by IndigoGhost

I raise your Vegitarian'ism and see you Vegan'ism

call.

I was wondering, if there were any vegans on DV for a while.
So now I count three so far. That's nice to know.

Originally Posted by dajo

call.

I was wondering, if there were any vegans on DV for a while.
So now I count three so far. That's nice to know.

Yeah, its nice. I'm going Vegan in about four to five weeks. It is why I was curious as to the monthly costs. I'm going on leave to visit family, which while I'm there, I'm going to get hooked up with a bunch of good Vegan recipes.

Mostly doing it to be healthy, to guarantee controllable longevity. If it helps meditation and the induction of dreams, that would be a nice bonus.

What are your thoughts when you see someone eat a hamburger.

Originally Posted by hellohihello

What are your thoughts when you see someone eat a hamburger.

Someone for animal rights and someone that is vegan are two completely different things. It is stereotyping to think that someone vegan is also aggressive for animal rights like PETA.

Originally Posted by hellohihello

What are your thoughts when you see someone eat a hamburger.

"Have fun eating your favorite dead thing."~

For the most part though i don't care because 80% of people will do what makes them happy and not what is right, so why force them to change, if they want to they will change themselves. I just hope they don't get it anywhere near me

The annoying thing i have noticed though is for some reason non Vegan/Vegetarian people will ignore you or even get mad at you for not eating meat and wont leave you alone about it, its really annoying

Probably a primal thing.

Originally Posted by ArcanumNoctis

Yeah, its nice. I'm going Vegan in about four to five weeks. It is why I was curious as to the monthly costs. I'm going on leave to visit family, which while I'm there, I'm going to get hooked up with a bunch of good Vegan recipes.

Mostly doing it to be healthy, to guarantee controllable longevity. If it helps meditation and the induction of dreams, that would be a nice bonus.

Originally Posted by hellohihello

What are your thoughts when you see someone eat a hamburger.

For the most part, I don't mind, because I can vividly remember how it is
to not consider any of the arguments and more often not know about them.

Depending on the mood, I sometimes feel a little bit helpless and sad, because
it can be overwhelming, if you take a look around and not really see any way
that things could change in the near future. But that feeling could be applied
to different things, many of you probably know it.

Most of the time, though, it doesn't affect me much. It's a little as if this
food just doesn't exist for me anymore. :-)

Okay I was just wondering, because now when I see people with alligator skin handbags/shoes I get grossed out.

Originally Posted by ArcanumNoctis

Yeah, its nice. I'm going Vegan in about four to five weeks. It is why I was curious as to the monthly costs. I'm going on leave to visit family, which while I'm there, I'm going to get hooked up with a bunch of good Vegan recipes.

Mostly doing it to be healthy, to guarantee controllable longevity. If it helps meditation and the induction of dreams, that would be a nice bonus.

It's pretty cool to meet fellow vegetarians
Well, good luck, it's pretty awesome! Your skin changes, & yeah supposedly it helps meditation.
I want to go raw, but like you, I want to get to know the food before I go completely raw