Thread: Melatonin Questions

Originally Posted by Konfusi0n

Last night I bought 60 3mg Melatonin pills. I just have a couple questions about it.

If I go to bed at 12:00 at night at what time should I take it?
How long do I have to take them for REM rebound to be in effect?
What does REM rebound do to dreaming?
Does Melatonin increase dream vividness or recall?

There are a lot of topics already discussing this; you'll find you can get your information quicker if you look for them (under lucid aids sub forum!).

Anyways, in the circadian rhythm, there are 2 hormones that play a factor; Melatonin and Serotonin. Melatonin acts as your 'lights off' hormone, where as Serotonin acts as your 'lights on' hormone. Basically, serotonin keeps you awake and active, where as melatonin makes you go to sleep.

Melatonin induces deep sleep (Stages 1-4), and inhibits REM sleep. Serotonin will do the opposite effect for your sleep, as well is needed for the logical / critical thinking section of your brain to fully function.

The 2 are naturally balanced in the common person, but one will be in abundance over the other at different times of the day. During the day, serotonin will peak, and at night, melatonin will peak. Light induces the secretion of serotonin, where darkness induces melatonin.

In our sleep cycles, we are required to get a certain amount of REM sleep. Lack of REM sleep has been proven to eventually lead to death; its quite an important! However, melatonin inhibits REM sleep, causing you to have less REM and more deep sleep.

But since your body needs the REM sleep, it will have to make up for the time it lost when melatonin was in abundance (I think this is why our REM cycles get longer at night, not too sure). What happens when you take a melatonin supplement is you are causing an excess amount of melatonin into your brain, causing you to have less REM sleep early in the night, but once the excess amount goes away, your brain will start to catch up with REM sleep, causing you to have longer REM sleep cycles later in your sleep (early morning).

The benefit of this is that during the early hours of our sleep, we are so tired and groggy that when we do have REM sleep, we don't even recognize that we are dreaming. However, if we take the melatonin supplement, our REM sleep will be shorter in these 'groggy' periods, and a lot longer in our more awake periods. This will allow us to dream longer and more intensly when we are more aware in the morning, hence making it easy to become aware while dreaming.

Take the melatonin as you goto bed. It doesn't take a lot of melatonin; I would recommend no more than 1 3mg pill (this is what I use). This will cause the later REM cycles to grow longer.

An REM rebound helps dreaming as we dream most vividly in REM sleep. During REM sleep, our brainwaves are the closest to when we are awake, which creates the life like dreams that we have. Since we can achieve longer REM sleep later in the morning, we will be more refreshed and capable to recognize we are dreaming, as well as have longer dreams to lucid dream in.

Melatonin will increase vividness, but it can hinder recall. In the dose you are taking, you will not see any affect on recall (well, you'll remember the dreams better as they'll be super vivid). However, certain drugs suchs as marijuana cause massive amounts of melatonin to secrete into the brain. This is the reason why most users do not remember their dreams at all, and wake up groggy if they're constant users.

TL;DR, 3mg, makes your dreams longer.

Maybe I should've been a tad more clear.. even if you take melatonin, you will always REM sleep, it will just be in a different pattern. The only way you can have no REM sleep is if someone wakes you up everytime you go into REM sleep, so you are perfectly safe taking melatonin.

is it dangerous to use melatonin if you haven't got a sleep disorder? I heard it causes you to become dependent on the stuff to fall asleep at all

what is a safe dosage for someone who has never taken a melatonin supplement before and who hasn't experienced any particular sleep disorders?

does melatonin work particularly well in a combination with another dream-enhancing supplement?

Originally Posted by LuceYourself

is it dangerous to use melatonin if you haven't got a sleep disorder? I heard it causes you to become dependent on the stuff to fall asleep at all

what is a safe dosage for someone who has never taken a melatonin supplement before and who hasn't experienced any particular sleep disorders?

does melatonin work particularly well in a combination with another dream-enhancing supplement?

Melatonin is perfectly safe, and at a dose of 3mg you won't become dependent. Melatonin is naturally produced in your body.

Take 3mg of melatonin, or even half of that (yes, people cut the pill in half!).

Melatonin works well with B6; B6 works with tryptophan (found in proteins) to create serotonin, which will help you be more aware;

Hope this helps! Reply if you need anymore questions answered!

You said that melatonin inhibits REM sleep so does that mean that as long as I take melatonin that I won't have proper REM sleep?

I have also noticed that since I have bought melatonin, my recall has been very bad and I can barely remember half a dream per night. Does this have anything to do with REM being inhibited?

How long do I need to take melatonin to achieve REM rebound?

If I have REM rebound and still take melatonin the night that it happens will it still be affected by it or will I have to stop taking melatonin for short intervals?

Originally Posted by Konfusi0n

You said that melatonin inhibits REM sleep so does that mean that as long as I take melatonin that I won't have proper REM sleep?

I have also noticed that since I have bought melatonin, my recall has been very bad and I can barely remember half a dream per night. Does this have anything to do with REM being inhibited?

How long do I need to take melatonin to achieve REM rebound?

If I have REM rebound and still take melatonin the night that it happens will it still be affected by it or will I have to stop taking melatonin for short intervals?

Sorry, inhibit was the wrong word to use. What I mean is while melatonin is present in the system in abundance, you will have less REM sleep at that time, like when you go to sleep at night for the first couple hours. However, the extra 3mg of melatonin should be out of your system in a couple hours, giving you the REM rebound the same night, making up for the lost REM sleep. You will ALWAYS have enough REM sleep. All that is different is that when you take melatonin, you will have longer REM periods later in your sleep, rather than evenly spread out.

If you are waking up not remembering dreams (are you groggy when you wake up) you could be taking too much. It doesn't take much melatonin; I'd suggest using half a 3mg pill. Take a knife and cut the pill in half.

The REM rebound will be in the same night you take the melatonin. You are probably just taking too much. Take a night off from melatonin, then try taking only 1.5mg.

Please reply if this still is unclear!

thanks man!

I'm using 5-HTP, choline and B6 at the moment.. but if they continue to not produce results I'll give melatonin a try

Interesting thread... I've thought about melatonin before... Unfortunately I have a rather ironic problem for someone trying to learn lucid dream, insomnia
Is melatonin a. safe and b. a good idea to take then?

One thing about melatonin though. Read the side effects (link in my sig)
Depression is one of them

Originally Posted by ultimatedood

One thing about melatonin though. Read the side effects (link in my sig)
Depression is one of them

If you take a lot of it maybe, but not in his dosage.

I've taken Melatonin every night for the past few days and I have no symptoms other than a good night's sleep.

Originally Posted by LuceYourself

thanks man!

I'm using 5-HTP, choline and B6 at the moment.. but if they continue to not produce results I'll give melatonin a try

Can you even get it in the UK without a prescription?