Thread: Training your Working Memory to possibly improve dream recall?

I very much like your idea, however, first we must look at how we improve our digit recall.

For example, the average person can usually recall 7-9 digits in their short-term memory, individually. That in itself, is already an accomplishment. However, in order to recall more, we're simply going to be cheating the system, instead of recalling 945275432 as 9 4 5 2 7 ... etc, we will begin to pair them, in order to save space in our short-term memory. Suddenly, we'll be recalling 94 52 27 ... etc, and look, I now have 6 numbers memorized, but by merely using the space of 3. This allows us to exceed the 7-9 average numbers of the short-term memory, instead of actually improving it. I have not yet found any evidence of humans being able to improve their short-term memory, other than finding more productive ways of using it to it maximal potential, though, I do love your idea as it would be incredibly useful if we could actually improve it.

This however, does also open up the topic for another dicussion that goes in the same vein. As we just discussed, we are able to "cheat" the system, (or just improve, if you will) in order to memorize larger amounts of data. This can be maximized by using mnemonic techniques for even larger amounts of data. For example, through using mnemonics (memory techniques), I am able to recall 80 random numbers in 5 minutes, or a deck of cards in 4 minutes. This does not improve our actual recall from when we wake up, but it should theoretically allow us to keep a dream journal within our mind, and being able to actually remember it.
What are your thoughts on this? And do you think we could somehow incorporate mnemonics for actual dream recall?

Thanks for clarifying the average number of digits we can recall (seriously), I was just typing in the moment, and I was too lazy to google to find assumed average.


What's funny is that I was in a undergraduate class that had a freshmen do a slide show presentation on this. It was how people who could recall those digits weren't really that different from those who couldn't. It was just how their brain operated that they were able to tap into that specific ability (like remembering large amounts of digits through a story, image (an elephant).

I can't recall much of what he said but I do understand what you mean by "cheating." But the site that I provided is just a part of that. There's another site where it involves you recognizing sound, images, AND their location all at the same time. And being able to remember the phenomenon maybe 2 steps back, or even more. THAT is the challenging part. The foxything site does digits, and I now realize you're right, it doesn't really improve short-term memory, but again that depends on how much you believe in it being false or true.

The other question is whether or not IQ reaches a plateau effect. But if I just add a piece of what I know about our brain is that it can learn new things, neuroplasticity, which is the brain's capability to redirect itself should there be an injury or some other form of trial. Like for instance this video that my professor showed to us gives a general portrayal of neuroplasticity.





AHH as I was typing this, I finally found the other site that makes things more difficult where you couldn't split numbers up. You had to recall previous locations and what it sounded like and looked like. And if you got it wrong, it would mess up your train of thought of the images that would show up to you at the moment, and makes it even more complicated because you worried about being wrong in the prior ones.

Here is the site (It involves being able to multitask by pressing keys for several events you experienced, etc.)

The Working Memory and Attention Training Game!

(You should try doing a few levels and see how that if you practice a little each day, you can improve your working memory).

Another concept is Einstein's exercise for focus (site below) that shows steps on retaining focus, which could help with Mnemonics, but I believe most people on DV would categorize that as a mantra with intent.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Albert-Ein...cus&id=5163585


As for the mnemonics for actual dream recall, all I can say is that when you're in a lucid dream, you're using knowledge you can be aware of now and work your way around that INSTEAD of thinking deeply of what you can do, which might make you lose your lucidity.

What I mean is like being trapped inside a small room and you have only 2 minutes to deactivate a bomb, but you can't use prior knowledge (knowledge that would require deep effort instead of spontaneous effort) of tools you could use to stop it, you would try to create alternatives from a single topic.(Divergent Thinking)

So maybe from the same Mnemonic that one would create in reality, combined with the added training of working memory, could improve dream memory.

By the dream journal in your mind, I believe you are considering a visuospatial sketchpad (like writing down words in the air and still retaining the shape, structure, etc).



That's all I can think of right now.

Yes, what that student spoke of was using mnemonics in order to remember large amounts of data, using the method of loci. To sum up how it works, lets say I want to remember the numbers 89673986793:

First off, I already have a set PAO list (Person - Action - Object) that I have associated with all numbers from 00-99. What it would basically look like, would be this:

89, Translated to MP, which to me translates to Media Class, which makes me think of my old teacher from my old media class.

67, GL, which translates to Gaahl (singer of Gorgoroth), whose action is drinking.

39, which is EP, which translated to Elvis Presley, whose object is a old-school type of microphone on a stand.

etc etc

To sum this up, I imagine my old media teacher, sitting in my room (the first spot on my Loci), getting drunk off of drinking from an old microphone, causing a havoc (throwing things around in his drunken state). By using these techniques, I have now stored 6 numbers, by using one single spot, which is all based off of association.

This specific loci that i have, has 54 set out spots, where I can set down specific events such as these. As I go back to the location, I will remember (based on association) what happened there. From what happened, I will know what was used to cause the action, the action reminds of the object, which will remind of the person, usually, this is instant. This allows you to store almost endless amount of information, just given proper time to settle them in. Remember, doing this will take advantage of both your hemispheres, whilst merely remembering individual numbers only uses the left hemisphere.

The idea of neuroplasticity is very good, however, if we think about it, whenever we need to store vital amounts of information (or just any vital information), the data is transfered from the short-term memory, onto the long-term memory. For this reason, there would never really be a need to extend the short-term memory, hence the brain wouldn't go through that process (correct me if I'm wrong).

The game you linked is interesting, since it engages more senses. Still though, there is no scientific research that suggests that games improves memory by any means, it has only shown to increase your skill of that particular game (Source: You Can Have An Amazing Memory by Dominic O'brien, 8 times world memory champion).

The Einstein concept is very interesting, I'll look into that!

I think you misunderstood my question. What I mean is, imagine using mnemonics, or more specifically the method of loci. As I wake up, instead of having to move to write down notes, what if I could simply arrange all key items in a Loci manner, as I just previously showed you an example of? It would be the same way people memorize a list of 100 random items in just a few minutes, but instead used for lucid dreaming. The theory sounds good, but I'm not so sure of its practical application.

The Dream Journal that I had in mind is what I wrote above. Your example is that of a Tony Buzan's Mind Map. Your example is also a good example of how not to make one hehe. I was taught the very same way in school but his book shows many of those, as an example of how to not make them. Check his book for further details, regardless, thanks teachers!

Thanks for your inputs, these conversations are golden .

Originally Posted by WrOx

This allows you to store almost endless amount of information, just given proper time to settle them in. Remember, doing this will take advantage of both your hemispheres, whilst merely remembering individual numbers only uses the left hemisphere.

I honestly wish I could do that. I know I could, but it's just hard finding the right type of practice for it.

Originally Posted by WrOx

The idea of neuroplasticity is very good, however, if we think about it, whenever we need to store vital amounts of information (or just any vital information), the data is transfered from the short-term memory, onto the long-term memory. For this reason, there would never really be a need to extend the short-term memory, hence the brain wouldn't go through that process (correct me if I'm wrong).

You're right about the short-term memory thing, but normally people who can recall things 9 steps back is still a useful skill I believe. And I don't necessarily mean longer short-term memory, just improving it in terms of intensity I guess.

(If one had short-term memory that gave too much time, our vision of the experience would be a bit blurred and seeing multiple images of the object or scenario, like this:



(From my Psychology class, I believe audio sensory input is retained more, like leaving an echo, which is why people generally recall sound better than the image (than again, everyone is different).

Originally Posted by WrOx

The game you linked is interesting, since it engages more senses. Still though, there is no scientific research that suggests that games improves memory by any means, it has only shown to increase your skill of that particular game (Source: You Can Have An Amazing Memory by Dominic O'brien, 8 times world memory champion).

Originally Posted by WrOx

The Einstein concept is very interesting, I'll look into that!

Yeah, it's like a strong placebo for one to get the job done.

Originally Posted by WrOx

I think you misunderstood my question. What I mean is, imagine using mnemonics, or more specifically the method of loci. As I wake up, instead of having to move to write down notes, what if I could simply arrange all key items in a Loci manner, as I just previously showed you an example of? It would be the same way people memorize a list of 100 random items in just a few minutes, but instead used for lucid dreaming. The theory sounds good, but I'm not so sure of its practical application.

Yeah, the association method you use seems to be a better way than writing down notes, but I think it should be a supplement since writing or typing down these associations as well will make the brain focus on the matter that one is interested in recording their dreams.

Originally Posted by WrOx

The Dream Journal that I had in mind is what I wrote above. Your example is that of a Tony Buzan's Mind Map. Your example is also a good example of how not to make one hehe. I was taught the very same way in school but his book shows many of those, as an example of how to not make them. Check his book for further details, regardless, thanks teachers!

Originally Posted by WrOx

Thanks for your inputs, these conversations are golden .

Haha no problem! You should see my posts on this topic if you want

http://www.dreamviews.com/f13/dream-...56/index2.html

And I'll look at his book, or maybe the videos about him, seems interesting! Thanks

Edit:

The topic this person made below, does the picture that they provide an example of associations? (But not just using the workshop as the only point, but rather a central idea that can branch off into many flexible events).

http://www.dreamviews.com/f45/lucid-...rkshop-124049/

And it seem's Tony Buzan's book is a part of divergent thinking. Spreading several ideas from one area, but with more flexibility instead of making things rigid.