Thread: Importance of Mood to LDing

Welcome to the forum MonochromeBaku, let's start with the easiest one first:

how long is it likely to take before the work pays off and I have a lucid dream?

Impossible to say. Picture lucidity as an epiphany: you will only get it if you get used to question and be critic towards your reality, and even then, the moment of sudden realization tends to be random. Some people achieve their first lucid in a few days, other take 1 month or 2, and in some cases, even longer. What you should worry about is: am I working towards it? If you're doing the basics of dream recall, reality checks, awareness, and one technique, the lucid will eventually come. At what rate, only you can tell. A person that makes a reality check every 10 minutes is much more likely to integrate that habit into their dreams faster than a person that does a reality check 3 times a day. Habit is your great aid in lucidity: no matter what you're doing, if you get used to question your reality, it will happen in your dreams. Being optimistic seems to help and keep the stress away ^^

So I'm asking, is it likely the mood that throws me off, or my wake up schedule?

Mood can indeed influence lucidity, because stress not only kills recall, but lowers your sleep quality. Let's jump straight into the solution: keep away from any source of negative feelings before going to bed. This can be achieved by going to your room 1 hour before sleeping, relaxing, doing some meditation, positive thinking etc. Everyone has bad moments, so the trick is acepting that despite them you can still be positive and not ruin your mood. This isn't so much related to dreaming, but since it influences it: learn to let go of negative things. To take your mind into positive thinking, into remembering good stuff, getting a grip of good memories, forcing yourself to believe that there's always something good.

Your recall will also improve if you apply the positive thinking: convince yourself you're gonna wake up and recall your dreams. Better than that, expect it every single day. When I wake up, I don't even think if I'm gonna recall my dreams: I know I can recall at least some fragments of them, so I just wait patiently to the memories to flood me. Nothing shows up? I get up, write in my DJ "can't remember anything, will work harder tonight" so I convince myself that I'm not letting myself down. Think positive and sleep well and recall will be there ^^

Thanks! So my odd morning schedule won't hurt anything regarding recall? Because a guy I was reading on here, Sageous, kept stressing that working on memory was key to attaining more than very low levels of lucidity.

Also, you said to try and get into the habit of Reality Checks/Awareness Exercises, but he specifically stated not to get into the habit and to change it up, otherwise you might just dream you did it right in the dream (Or something). I saw you on that thread a lot actually, so which is right? Everyone else keeps saying to get into the habit, but he DOES have 30 years of experience... As it is, I'm just doing Reality Checks and Awareness Exercises every hour on the hour, but is that wrong?

The exact thread I was reading is at this site /wild/125579-lucid-dreaming-fundamentals-q.html

So my odd morning schedule won't hurt anything regarding recall? Because a guy I was reading on here, Sageous, kept stressing that working on memory was key to attaining more than very low levels of lucidity.

The fact that you wake up and go back to sleep doesn't need to be a issue. For example, when I have these awakenings in the middle of the night, I quickly use an voice recorder to point out a quick picture of the dream, which I can complete later when I get up. You can also write down a few keywords and go back to sleep without that even hurting your recall. What Sageous wants to stress regarding memory is that you won't be able to achieve proper lucidity if you can't develop good enough memory to locate yourself in "time and space". This is helpful even for dream recall, which translate into being able to quickly turn into your last memories when you wake up. For specific lucidity, picture memory as a solid backup: you know that you just went to sleep, and now you're walking in the streets of some random place. Another type of memory is prospective memory, which relates to the ability of remembering future intentions: especially useful in order to carry on intentions in your dream.

Also, you said to try and get into the habit of Reality Checks/Awareness Exercises, but he specifically stated not to get into the habit and to change it up, otherwise you might just dream you did it right in the dream (Or something)

Both of us are right. I was actually a beginner in that thread and you can trust that even with more experience under my belt I still highly recommend you to follow the ideas presented there. Sageous is someone who developed his lucid dreaming skills without the nowadays "talk" that you see in concepts like reality checks, techniques, tricks, etc, so much of his talk may seem different from more "modern" lucid dreamers. In the end, the essence is the same, but he presents it without masking it up, which some people (me included) prefer, but this information sometimes doesn't seem very clear for people asking for advice ^^

Anyway, regarding reality checks and awareness: they are key to your lucidity, but you should not do them as a mechanical action. What sageous means by "not get into the habit" is don't assume that a reality check is a simple action that you perform loads of times a day. It's actually an introspective moment in which you question the reality around you. This questioning and awareness of yourself and the universe is what builds the core of lucidity. A reality check can simply be trying to recall what you were doing 15 minutes ago like Sageous mentions. Others prefer other actions, like I like to look at my hand in order to abstract from the outside world and question myself. In the end, we are all doing the same: becoming aware.

Until your reality checks become a second nature habit, you'll have to consciously perform them. At some point (takes some time), they'll will come much more easily and spontaneously, but you must never assume them as mindless actions.

I hope I cleared your doubts a bit better now. Despite that, I'll try and see if Sageous sees this thread, as he will for sure be able to explain his speech much better than myself

Thanks for clearing that up, it was a bit confusing - I didn't see how it would effect my dreams if they didn't become habit, but I saw his point about if they did. I won't let them become mindless.

Zoth. You are good. I'm glad you changed your name to Zoth. ;P imabout to change mine.


This is to the original post.
When I accidentally LDed it was from a accidental WBTB followed by micro WBTBs. This was without knowing what LDs were. Waking up a lot of times is the simple easiest way for me to attain lucidity. This is for me, everyone is different, but plusses for some people are normally plusses for everyone, it just might not be your "key".

Mood.
I have been down a bit lately. Needing a job, tired, worried. Basically a walking anti-Brandon. Yesterday I realized it and started fixing it, halfway through the day I was so excited about everything. I will probably be starting a new job soon! I have a baby on the way! I am going to lucid dream tonight! And I broke my one week dry streak. Attitude is very big for me.

Yo.
To add to what everyone else said, i would say that mood affects lucid dreaming as much as you let it affect it, yesterday i was in pretty poor mood due to some IWL stuff before the nap, but while falling asleep i kept thinking that i will have lucid dream and that it will make my mood better, and i had it, and it made my mood indeed better. I hope that helps.

MonochromeBaku: First, thank you for looking at my Lucid Dreaming Fundamentals thread; it's nice to know that it's still getting views, and I hope it helped. Next, I see you and Zoth have come to an agreement. That's good, because everything he said was right -- I think sometimes that the guy understands my stuff better than I do!

To emphasize two points:

When I'm speaking about memory, I am not speaking about dream recall. Though dream recall is driven by memory, and is certainly important to successful LD'ing, it is not memory itself and it doesn't matter at all during the dream. What matters then is actual memory, which is essentially switched off during a dream. Mastering an ability to switch it back on during the dream would be a very powerful tool for LD'ing. Ironically, memory truly is the forgotten third leg of the lucid dreaming stool.

An example of an exercise to prepare you to throw that memory switch is doing a RC that asks what you were doing fifteen minutes earlier -- I guess it's actually less an RC than a small wedge in your memory's door; get that door open, perhaps by remembering during the dream that you were falling asleep in your bed fifteen minutes ago. And yes, the only way for this sort of test to happen is by doing regular RC's during waking life. It's okay to make a habit of doing them, as long as every RC is meaningful and not done mindlessly, by rote.

Now:

Originally Posted by MonochromeBaku

I think the poor memory of it might also be because of the weird way I get up, with many fallings back asleep and wakings up in a relatively short period of time (Upwards of 20 in a ~40 minute period).

Yes, that weird way of waking up (actually not so weird, in truth) might have a negative effect on dream recall...try doing the things Zoth suggested, as they make sense and might help. But aside from that, you might look into DEILD, which seems a natural fit for that sort of waking pattern.

So I'm asking, is it likely the mood that throws me off, or my wake up schedule? I have no power to fully change either, I don't think, but I could at least AVOID the former. The second isn't even of my doing.

Yes, mood can definitely affect LD'ing, and sleep in general. And yes, it might be very difficult, but moods can be changed. I think enough great advice has already been handed you about this, so I'll leave it at that.

Also, on a separate note, how long is it likely to take before the work pays off and I have a lucid dream? It's only been a couple of days, so I'm not getting impatient, but it'd be nice to know when.

You might be there in ten days or ten years, it's completely up to you. One warning though: try not to mark your calendar with a deadline for successful LD'ing; if you do that, you're guaranteed to miss the date. Instead, simply know, every night before sleep, that you'll be having a lucid dream tonight.

Thanks for the reply, this really cleared a few things up. I'll be patient and work hard, but I hope it isn't really 10 years. I'd assume that's the very farthest end of the spectrum with hard work on it. On another unrelated point I was wondering about - if you'll indulge me - is relating to time. In a dream, hours can pass in the dream with only minutes passing in real life, your time perception is slowed down. Does this apply to lucid dreams, or does becoming lucid restore you to a waking-life time-sense?

Nothing other than your thoughts can influence a dream - mood can influence thoughts, therefore indirectly effecting your dreamscape, but other than that it cannot directly interfere in my opinion. We're all in completely control of our thoughts, with external influences merely bending them in a certain way, however it's always voluntary and we can shift the flow whenever we want.

Remember, if you have the willpower, belief and the confidence that the dreamscape is sculpted and controlled by you and only you, you'll perform wonders within your lucid dreams and will enjoy them beyond belief.

As I said, mood influences dreams indirectly - when conscious though, nothing other than your conscious thoughts control the dream (excluding of course what your subconscious does in the background, though I really don't think the subconscious processes thoughts based on your mood etc, rather what you've been through in life and expect on a day to day basis from the environment and people around you).

Originally Posted by MonochromeBaku

Thanks for the reply, this really cleared a few things up. I'll be patient and work hard, but I hope it isn't really 10 years. I'd assume that's the very farthest end of the spectrum with hard work on it. On another unrelated point I was wondering about - if you'll indulge me - is relating to time. In a dream, hours can pass in the dream with only minutes passing in real life, your time perception is slowed down. Does this apply to lucid dreams, or does becoming lucid restore you to a waking-life time-sense?

Time in dreams is mostly the same as waking life. Some studies revealed that depending on what your actions the time might be slower. For example, counting 1 to 10 took basically the same time, but doing sit-ups took about 44,5% longer in a lucid dream than in waking life.
What you're refering though is not a characteristics of dream themselves. The sensation of time dilation can be seen in movies for example. We experience a cut-scene with something "2 months later" and we end up accepting without knowing that there was a temporal jump. This happens many times with dreams as well. You'll probably experience some "time slowing down" in your lucids, but it's impossible to pin point what exactly you'll experience. Remember that your entire experience is based on a mental model created by your brain at the same time you perceive it. Add to that the fact that certain brain areas responsible for logic and perceptual thinking are way less active and you can understand why sometimes lucids can feel like they include themselves in a whole new realm of reality.

Thanks. That's too bad actually: I thought it would be possible to train myself to have many hour long WILDs in the span of the maybe 40 minutes I have alone (But, of course I can't even DILD yet, let alone WILD or DEILD). One more question (I'd understand if you're getting tired of answering these):

I've heard a bit about a chemical, Galantamine, which helps with lucid dreaming. This sounds very scary to me - It seemed ominous when I first heard about it if it can affect the brain in such a way, and then I found out it's used to treat Alzheimer's which makes it even worse - but is it necessary when you get into the higher stages of LDing like Sageous? Is it impossible to get past the medium levels of lucidity without such an aid? And have you noticed it impacting your mental performance in waking life? I want to lucid dream, but I'm not willing to be gradually reduced to a blabbering idiot over the course of my lifetime for it. I'd rather not take it at all if I can avoid it, but will I eventually have to if I'm serious?

One more question (I'd understand if you're getting tired of answering these):

Ahaha, not at all! Please, don't feel like you have to moderate yourself around Dreamviews when it comes to making questions The community is extremely helpful, and if anything, you can always pm a dream guide (we're the guys with green names) if you have any doubt ^^

First of all, let's get one thing out of the way: you don't need supplements in order to reach high level lucid dreams. Picture it as a muscle that you have to develop: when you become lucid, you basically increase activity in certain brain parts, which gives you a varying degree of lucidity. Depending on your experience as lucid dreamer and your brain chemistry, you'll have more or less lucidity, which affects things like dream control, or even dream vividness.

Now, what supplements like galantamine do is giving you a shortcut. They act in your brain in a way that you can experience easier time recalling dreams, more vivid dreams, easy time performing a WILD, etc. What they can't do is give you the tools to lucid dream regularly. Take the example of galatamine once again: in order to use it safely, one must use doses that are way below the therapeutic dosage. For example, a common dose (for recreational use) is 8mg, but even then people are encourage to start with 4mg. The thing is, in order for the person not build dependence and tolerance for the drug, they must wait for it to completely clean from the organism: in the case of galantamine, this takes around 4 to 5 days. This means that the best use for it is around once a week.

As you can see, you can't really rely on drugs to achieve regular lucidity: they can only help so much. The most powerful tool you have for lucid dreaming is building an habit. Rewiring your brain takes time, and as you can see by Sageous example, mastering lucidity can take ages. But that doesn't mean you need to spend years practicing in order to get satisfying lucids that show up twice a week. It only took me a matter of days to start inducing lucid dreams that allowed me to develop experiences, have fun, try stuff, etc. At an initial point most people tend to face one obstacle of two (like dream control, stabilizing), but once you get a few dozens of lucid dreams on your pocket, you can do loads of things, especially if you understand how lucidity works. Experience helps, because as you will realize, knowing that you are dreaming is one thing...understanding what that means is a whole other thing ^^

Don't stress yourself though, a matter of consistency on basic things like reality checks, dream recall, awareness, memory is enough to give you lucids. The more consistent you are (because consistency seems to dictate the difference between regular and casual lucid dreamers ^^), the more chances you have to experience regular lucids. The rest comes with practice.

^^ For what it's worth:

Though I've used it many times, rest assured that gallantamine had no major role in my LD'ing development. It's a handy aid, but relatively harmless if used in the manner Zoth said. One warning, though: supplements like gallantamine and huperzine have a tendency to add vividness to your dreams, and make you less interested in becomeing lucid becaus the dream is so cool.

Also for what it's worth, I suggest that you avoid supplements until after you can become lucid on your own... it works better tha way.

Alright, thanks. Good to know it's optional, I really didn't want to have to be worried about whether it was slowly lowering my intelligence, so I think I'll just stay away from it. Seems almost too good to be true, a drug that improves the quality of lucid dreams with few side effects -- I figure there must be a catch, something wrong with it. Like steroids, to use your analogy of building muscle. I'm just worried all these people here using it will have problems later.

Originally Posted by MonochromeBaku

In a dream, hours can pass in the dream with only minutes passing in real life, your time perception is slowed down. Does this apply to lucid dreams, or does becoming lucid restore you to a waking-life time-sense?

I believe that everything is possible in dream, the only boundaries are the ones you make by yourself. From what i have experienced, time in the dream world can flow by entirely different set of rules from waking world, but whether you experience that while being lucid depends really on your conscious and subconscious beliefs and expectations.