Discreet reality tests that negate being zonked

**Ex Nine** · 10-09-2005 07:09 PM

Ok, I stewed over this for a while (* no pun intended) and didn't come up with much. It's a curious irony that this would probably be a lot easier, if my subconscious was not a terrifically clever bastard.

I need a reality test (preferably discreet, so it can be done independently of concern by people nearby) that cannot be explained by being severely plastered, gassed, stoned, smashed, doped, sloshed, laced, tanked, bagged, canned, and/or wasted. This includes being under the influence of everything from recreational drugs to prescription or over-the-counter medication and possibly really great food.

So, this cannot include things like looking at text and not being able to read it. Or even looking at a person and noticing that they change into an entirely different person. Remember I'm not just talking about getting hammered, although it would inevitably be included and may suffice depending on the amount.

Normally that wouldn't even matter - I would see this disorientation itself as a dream sign! Because I never get intoxicated (except by love... you know it, Irishcream). And because disorientation is a normal part of dreaming anyways.

But another dream sign is memory loss or experiencing lost time. I expect many of you have this in dreams as well, since dreaming ordinarily means forgetting a cocktail of things. Pun intended that time.

The clever bit is when my subconscious combines these two dream signs to convince me that I'm not dreaming in two different but complimentary permutations. 1) I forget that I'm abstinent and don't see intoxication as a dream sign, and 2) My intoxication is why I'm forgetful in the first place.

It's clear that there's some Freudian-type stuff at work here... on of my greatest prides is self-control that means one of my greatest fears is lack of self-control, yadda yadda. I'd like to be spared of that type of analysis in this thread but if you feel need I wouldn't mind if you pm'ed me. The association self-control has with dream control is not a trivial one.

Any ideas on how to puncture this?

**kimpossible** · 10-09-2005 07:14 PM

How about the old standby: pinch your nostrils and try to breathe?

Use your third finger and thumb. Keep your first finger up at the bridge of your nose. Pinching the bridge of your nose is a common (oft effective) cure for the on-set of a headache. So it's easily explained and commonly observed IRL.

**Ex Nine** · 10-09-2005 07:15 PM

What if you can't reach your nose? I'm already seeing myself explaining it away as a lack of coordination. Or that I'm grabbing someone else's nose and I'm so dizzy I don't even notice it.

This is pretty challenging, isn't it!

**kimpossible** · 10-09-2005 07:17 PM

That would be tough to justify.

---------

Ok - hold your breath and try to breathe.

**Ex Nine** · 10-09-2005 07:25 PM

I've been paging through my notebook to see instances where it might go wrong... like, right when I pinch my nose the dream could change and I would rationalize it as having passed out. So I'd have to buttress it by holding my eyes open and focusing on something.

Pinching the nose has moved to #1. Thanks, Kim!

**Dream Yogis** · 10-11-2005 02:07 AM

looking at your watch. that's a pretty common action of most people, and so they would be none the wiser. I like to do the ones that make people question me, so that I can get them to learn

I'm addicted to the premise that people my age are not immature fools..... I'm so naive....

**Tsen** · 10-11-2005 03:07 AM

Yeah, but if you're as disoriented as he says, watches don't mean much...

**Ex Nine** · 10-11-2005 03:52 AM

Yeah, Tsen!

To add to that, I sort of had a thing for watches when I was a kid, always collecting ones that were broken and taking them apart, trying to fix them... so if I see watches not working as they should I just think they're broken. :/

**Distant Clone** · 10-11-2005 04:05 AM

Go for the O!

That's right, if you aren't sure you are dreaming, just think about yourself orgasming...Mentally it's possible to get yourself off, I believe, but it's much easier done in a dream. I'm not sure anyone here can lose their load just thinking about it, but when it's night time of course we can.

**Ex Nine** · 10-11-2005 04:18 AM

Holy crap. That's just so crazy it might work.

Physical orgasms just aren't that easy, that they could occur by the mind alone. But dream orgasms are characteristic in that they exist in the mind, so they come as easily as thoughts.

You know, some people think puns aren't funny, but it's really their misuse by journalists, I think.

**Tsen** · 10-11-2005 06:37 AM

lmfao

Anyway, there's a possible problem with that. Lots of people wake up when they have that oh-so-special moment, and unless you have a soft spot for wet dreams...
Still, if you don't have issues with that, it should work pretty well.

**Ex Nine** · 10-11-2005 06:53 AM

Nah, they're harmless. But, actually, a girl was talking to me once about how she heard from another lady that becoming lucid was like experiencing a "full body orgasm," and sought confirmation. I, being unfamiliar with the female experience, thought about it for a minute, and, yes, I'd say that's as good a way as any to describe it. Lucidity already appears well attached to its own versions of euphoria.

This may be a bit off-topic, but are you ever aware of certain feelings and vibrations that specifically occur during dreams? These used to be obvious markers of lucidity for me but they have since fallen to topics suspect for byproducts of intoxication.

Perhaps the best thing is to find an uncompromising ground. A decisive understanding, impenetrable by memory loss. Not derivative, but axiomatic. "No, I don't do drugs, this is a dream sign." Here the axiom being "I don't do drugs," which would not be derived from a lack of desire to get toasted or anything in particular, but "just because I don't." Lucidity would therefore be a derivative event.

But there could also be axiomatic signs for lucidity, such as those feelings and vibrations I mentioned above. "This is a dream sign just because this is what a dream is."

That would be an interesting discussion to have in another thread, I think. Whether it is better to have derivative or axiomatic dream signs, and strategies for working with the two.

**kimpossible** · 10-11-2005 08:56 AM

I would say it's a lot less intense than a full-body orgasm.

And there are a fair number of women that can achieve orgasm without physical contact - strictly fantasy. Maybe a better test for guys? It wouldn't work well for me at all.

**Ex Nine** · 10-11-2005 09:25 AM

Originally posted by kimpossible
I would say it's a lot less intense than a full-body orgasm.

Damn, and I actually thought lucidity offered a glimpse of what it would feel like.

And there are a fair number of women that can achieve orgasm without physical contact - strictly fantasy. *Maybe a better test for guys? *It wouldn't work well for me at all.[/b]

What a talent!

I'm sure there are some guys out there who can do it, but I don't think it's that many. Males seem to have evolved a reproductive system that doesn't have much dependence on the mind. If anything, the mind gets in the way. It probably served their chances for reproducing, but then it is ironic that in a similar way it would serve females to have a dependence on the mind, so that they could tell if a man is of strong mental character, evidenced by his abstinence?

Now I'm just making stuff up.

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