Thread: Why did I do this? How come I wasn't lucid?

So I gather that multiple dreams really aren't connected?

Each dream has a planned length, beginning to end, but it's not that simple. I feel that life and dream are one in the same. Further, instead of only having life and dream, I think there are various tiers of dreaming, and some other levels, like one for OBEs. I have previously written about this in a thread, Questioning the Mechanics of Dreaming.

Other than what I have already summarized, I hypothesize that each set of senses, or awareness is much like a TV channel. Each channel is always broadcasting, and usually we are only tuned into our "reality" channel. When we are dreaming, we change the channel. Sometimes though, we switch back and forth between different dreams all in one REM cycle. It's like we are watching Dream A, switch to Dream B, maybe back to A, then finish with Dream B.

I do not perfectly understand when we switch back and forth between channels, but in my experience it is meant for segues and scene changes. In terms of repeated dreams and switching channels, I think they are all one group working together in parallel. They are all scheduled and coordinated so it looks like one movie, although it is actually being "filmed" at several different locations, simultaneously.

Either one has been to a dream location before or not. Chances are the dreamer has been there before, and is acting the same role again. However, remembering being in that role is another issue. Other than that, I feel everything is connected, so it's pointless to spectulate. Interestingly, one may not be sure where the first movie ends and the second begins, unless they see at least one movie without seeing the other. For example, if one sees Movie A followed by Movie B one night, then sees Movie A followed by Movie B again in the future, how does one know if it's one movie, two movies, or even more?

Originally posted by Distant Clone

However, once a dreamer is on the set, one's actions are predetermined, they are expected to conform to the script.

I'm not sure if you are saying there is no free will or no true lucidity? In higher level lucids, the dreamer experiences making choices. I don't experience my actions as predetermined.

In non-lucid dreams my dream ego and other DCs do unexpected things sometimes. I'm not sure I would blame a director!

Dreaming is a very broad category and encompasses many types of experience, states of consciousness, and various phenomenon. I don't think your metaphor of a movie is large enough to reflect this variety.

Lucidity is a skill that can be taught.

If someone says why didn't I swim, we'd look at their technique, we could use principles of mass and density to analyze the failure.

With lucidity, so far we are not clear on the principles. Personally I think there are some basic prerequisites for lucidity:
[list]ability to recall dreams
ability to focus
ability to reflect on events
awareness of environment
understanding the possibility[list]

Weaknesses in some of these areas could explain some failures of lucidity.
Other factors could include, intent, mental energy, and imagination.

Yes I do think there is free will. However, I see it as being employed before the dream starts, used in order to pick and choose the dreams one has, not to do whatever one pleases once one is dreaming. I don't think most people realize why they pick the dreams they do, or that they are the one's responsible for picking those dreams.

I really don't like the idea of lucidity, I think "knowing one is dreaming" is an overspecific metric. Out of the list you provide Asclepius, I think awareness is the best replacement, even if you are aware that you are dreaming. If I have a dream where I am aware of some inconsitency, or that I have control over things, then that should be considered a successful awareness dream.

Making choices is deceptive, especially if you have not had a repeat dream. You need to ask yourself "how many possible choices did I have?" because during repeat dreams you will often think exactly the same thoughts, make exactly the same choices, do exactly the same actions. One thing that does change is the level of emotional involvement within the dream.

What you call unexpected, some may call random, but I prefer the term chaotic. Used in a mathematical sense, chaos means hidden order. What you and your DCs do, they have reasons for doing them, however it is unlikely that you understand the symbolism to them. That's where dream interpretation comes into play.

I'm not too convinced your swimming analogy is adequate. Any healthy swimmer can keep himself from afloat any time he/she wishes not to sink. However, not every dreamer has a lucid dream or awareness dream or whatever type of dream on command. Certainly, fatigue and other factors come into play, but maybe they just aren't compatible. While it is evident different strokes allow people to swim, I'm not sure the same can be said about dreaming.

I have had success with VILD, WILD, and MILD, but I really don't like reality checks. I think everything needs to be set up and ready to go before the dream. Of course, if you get to a point where you need to question reality, you already have an awareness dream, as I would call them. Call me old fashioned, but I stick to dream incubation mainly. Actually, I think dream incubation is the general version of the different specific dream inducing techniques. It would make things nicer if everything is "unified" into one model.

Originally posted by Distant Clone+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Distant Clone)</div>

there is free will. However, I see it as being employed before the dream starts, used in order to pick and choose the dreams one has, not to do whatever one pleases once one is dreaming[/b]

Its natural for us to generalize from our specific experiences. However we need to recognize that our subjective experiences do not reflect the universe of possibilities. Other people can have experiences that we do not.

A person who is red/green colour blind knows there is no difference (true for them).
A person with perfect pitch knows what is and isn't on key (true for them).
A kinesthete can tell you the feeling of a colour (true for them).
A person says they have a precognitive dream. Can we say definitively they did not?
If a person in an OBE goes and watches a movie and then can recount the plot do we deny their experience and say its just a dream?

In the spirit of sharing distinct subjective experiences I respond to your post.

I say I have different dreams with control. In some it is minor, I chose to summon an object like an apple. In others I chose to change the location. In another I chose not to be afraid and calmly meet a monster who is part of myself.

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Making choices is deceptive, especially if you have not had a repeat dream. You need to ask yourself "how many possible choices did I have?" because during repeat dreams you will often think exactly the same thoughts, make exactly the same choices, do exactly the same actions

This is an interesting class of experience. Some people have this type of dream frequently. For me it is extremly rare. In two cases recognizing that elements of the dream where repeated made me lucid.
George Parrish wrote a novel called Lucid Dreaming. In that book he describes a number of repeating dreams he had. Interestingly he never achieves what most here would consider lucidity (awareness of dream and control of events). But he frequently 'rewinds' his dream trying to get something to change.
Some people might consider your repeating dreams a form of mental timetravel. Others who believe such a thing is impossible might have different interpretations.

Originally posted by Distant Clone+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Distant Clone)</div>

hidden order. What you and your DCs do, they have reasons for doing them, however it is unlikely that you understand the symbolism to them
[/b]

I agree that many dreams have meaningful symbolism. And that just because we don't understand the symbolism does not mean it isn't there. However I don't believe all dreams have meaning. Some dreams seem just to be coalescing around daily residue of mental activity.
In some lucid dreams minor DCs dissolve with lucidity. They seem to have arisen from unfocussed mental activity. With increased focus of lucidity my dream ego is more unified. I have doubts that this type of DC has significant inherent symbolic meaning.

Originally posted by Distant Clone+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Distant Clone)</div>

I'm not too convinced your swimming analogy is adequate
[/b]

Great! One of my points is that metaphors are inadequate and should not be confused with the phenomenon.
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I really don't like reality checks. I think everything needs to be set up and ready to go before the dream. Of course, if you get to a point where you need to question reality, you already have an awareness dream, as I would call them

To me there is a distinct difference in experience between a pre-lucid dream where I am wondering if I am dreaming, and after I recognize that it is a dream and I am lucid. People seem to get unduly depressed when they fail to become lucid during a pre-lucid dream (e.g. RC fails). To me this type of dream shows that the requisite focus and energy for lucidity is being approached.
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Actually, I think dream incubation is the general version of the different specific dream inducing techniques. *

I agree, although I am incubating lucidity in order that I can chose my dream in the dream.